Coleman refuses to count hundreds of legitimate absentee ballots

[babylonsister]

Coleman, Franken differ on rejected ballots

The U.S. Senate recount stalled today as campaign lawyers publicly bickered over the disputed absentee ballots.

By MIKE KASZUBA and PAT DOYLE, Star Tribune

Last update: December 29, 2008 - 1:33 PM


With a Minnesota Supreme Court-imposed deadline approaching and the sniping among lawyers increasing, the U.S. Senate recount stalled today as the campaigns for Sen. Norm Coleman and Democrat Al Franken remained far apart on an agreement on improperly rejected absentee ballots.

Lawyers for the two campaigns publicly bickered this morning at a meeting held by Secretary of State Mark Ritchie's office, with the Franken campaign saying Coleman did little over the weekend to help reach an agreement over how many of the disputed ballots should be counted. While the Franken campaign said Saturday it wanted to count all 1,346 absentee ballots that local officials have determined were improperly rejected, lawyers for Coleman said today they had agreed to 136 of the ballots but would release a list containing "lots, lots more" later today.

The month-long recount, which unofficiallly has Franken holding a slight lead, may now hinge on how many rejected absentee ballots cast in the Nov. 4 election were improperly rejected by local election officials.

more...

http://www.startribune.com/politics/state/36833124.html

[robinlynne]

1. and Coleman thinks you get to decide which imporperly rejected ballots count?

only in America.

[gratuitous]

7. The court said they could

The court ruling (Minnesota Supreme Court?) said that each of the disputed ballots should be reviewed by the Secretary of State's office, the Franken campaign and the Coleman campaign, and only those ballots that all three parties agreed to count would be counted.

Before you ask, yeah, that's a pretty fucked-up way to figure out this mess. The trump, of course, is that Franken holds the lead right now. The Franken campaign, if it valued results over every other consideration, could just refuse to count any of the disputed ballots and take its victory. I'm guessing the Coleman campaign has carefully reviewed the disputed ballots and okayed the 10% of the ballots showing a vote for Coleman, and will refuse to allow consideration of any other ballots.

I don't know if the Franken campaign has made any announcement about specific ballots it would like to see counted, and I hope they didn't issue a blanket "we want to count all the ballots" statement. Because that would mean that it will be up to the Coleman campaign to decide which specific ballots are actually counted.

As I said, the court's ruling is muy fucked up; it should be up to the Secretary of State's office to set down some standards and then judge, ballot by ballot, whether to count votes based on those standards. The controversy should center on whether the standards are fair, and whether the standards are properly applied. The notion that the campaigns get to green light or red light any particular ballot is antithetical to democracy.

[LisaL]

9. Seriously?

Well since Franken has the lead what is to stop him from rejecting all the ballots? Especially if Colmen only wants to count part of them.

[robinlynne]

13. If he did that I would never ever support him again, for a starter!

[dysfunctional press]

15. he may have no other choice, if coleman only wants to count the votes for himself...

since all 3 parties have to agree to each ballot to have it counted- if Al says "count'em all"- he's agreed to having each of the ballots- if coleman in turn only agrees to count the votes fo5r himself- then those would be the only votes that all the parties agree on, and the only ones that would count- and if there are more of them than Al's current lead, normie wins.

[LisaL]

16. Well, what would you have him do?

If Coleman doesn't want to count all the ballots? It should be either all or nothing at all.
They shouldn't pick and chose.

[robinlynne]

18. exactly. If there is a legally cast ballot, it is illegal NOT to count it.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

21. That's ridiculous. They are giving each campaign veto power over those ballots.

If Coleman is going to allow only 10 percent, that all vote for him, then Franken needs to veto those so that all are vetoed.

[robinlynne]

23. what's ridiculous is letting them decide AT ALL which votes can be counted. Every legal vote must be

counted. period. ot it ain't democracy. You can't DECIDE which votes to count. That concept is insane! (barring fake votes, of course.)

[fed_up_mother]

20. Regarding election reform - signs should be posted ALL OVER the booth

stating that stupid mistakes like the ones they're fighting over won't be counted.

Does anyone else find this ridiculous? If the vote is not immediately obvious, toss it. I used to sincerely believe that we needed to go through this crap because uneducated voters or elderly voters were more prone to mistakes, but with proper voter education and signs all over the damn voting booth outlining possible errors, this stuff needs to stop.

[gratuitous]

22. What do you mean by "immediately obvious"?

One of the ballots challenged by the Coleman campaign had a clear vote for Franken, but a small dot in one of the other bubbles (for a minor party candidate), as if the voter touched the ballot with the pen while considering the race. The intent of the ballot was clearly a vote for Franken, but the dot (which the voter may not have even realized was there) drew a challenge from Coleman. I think that particular challenge was withdrawn, but under your standard, the ballot would have been disqualified immediately.

I think the best system is one that's set before any ballots are even printed, the rules are promulgated by the state official in charge of elections, and a condition of running for any candidate is a signed statement to abide by those rules. The court's cock-eyed ruling in this case to let the respective campaigns have a voice in counting ballots is preposterous on its face.

[robinlynne]

24. I'm with you. The post above reminds me of the Supreme Court in Bush Vs Gore, when

what's her name (the blonde "swingvote" lady) said : if those people can't figure out how to mark a ballot then they shouldn't be allowed to vote, referring to the butterfly ballot in Florida, which was created by a "democrat" who ahd ben aregistered Republican for 40 years and became a Democrat just in time to create the bubble ballot.

[fed_up_mother]

26. The butterfly ballot was confusing

However, if signs clearly state not to mark up a ballot with extra markings, and the voter does it anyway, then we wouldn't have to go through this. CLEAR RULES. CLEAR EXAMPLES. POSTED ALL OVER THE PLACE.

[fed_up_mother]

25. I agree with you.

Some of this seems more like divination than vote counting! LOL

How many of us will "really" believe that the ballots were counted properly if Coleman wins, and vice versa?

[MineralMan]

2. And all of the ones Coleman likes come from

around Lake Minnetonka, I'm sure.

He doesn't like the ones from Minneapolis and Saint Paul too much, I'm betting.

Dipshit!

[LisaL]

3. Since Franken is in the lead, one would think Coleman

should be interested in counting all the ballots. How did Coleman's lawyers arrive with the "list?"

[JackRiddler]

4. They must know that the absentees don't help his case.

[LisaL]

5. Depending on the area they come from?

[JackRiddler]

6. As I read it, they've seen all of these ballots.

Since they've made an initial assessment of which they want to accept. In other words, they know it likely hurts them to have all of them considered. The 136 they accept probably give a net addition to Coleman.

[LisaL]

10. Do they know who the votes are for?

Even if they don't, by now they (Coleman and Franken) could have contacted most if not all of those voters to figure that out? Franken obviously shouldn't agree if Coleman only wants to accept part of the ballots.

[MiniMe]

19. They got to review all of the ballots

So my guess is that they are only approving those that will get him the lead, along with some Franken votes. Count all of them or none of them, that would be my answer.

[Festivito]

8. Coleman campaign wants to pick which ballots count? Isn't this NUTS?

They must be working on some contorted view of ballot markings that will allow more from where Coleman did well and less from where Franken did well.

I gather they have at least seen the outside of those ballots, and can come up with a set of rules that could give them an edge on where some subset of those ballots come from, hopefully, for the Coleman campaign, that will mathematically weigh as a thousand ballots with 51% Coleman, 49% Franken that would give Coleman 510 versus 490, a 20 vote absentee lead that would then add to his current deficit.

It's an interesting game. They have to keep the press at bay. An argument BETWEEN lawyers sounds good for Coleman.

I bet those judges they picked were picked for their memories of details that they can run through their minds in order to pick only the right mix of ballots.

[Kahuna]

11. So. Then let's call it a day and call the election for Franken who is in the lead. nt

[LisaL]

12. Yey.

[Kingofalldems]

14. If they voted for me I will let them be counted

And then I win!! Yay!

[NV Whino]

17. Sounds like it's time for the coin toss.