Pickups and SUVs will outsell cars this month

[RamboLiberal]

After nearly a year of flagging sales, low gas prices and fat incentives are reigniting America's taste for big vehicles.

Trucks and SUVs will outsell cars in December, according to researchers at the automotive Website Edmunds.com, something that hasn't happened since February.

Meanwhile the forecast finds that sales of hybrid vehicles are expected to be way down.

"Despite all the public discussion of fuel efficiency, SUVs and trucks are the industry's biggest sellers right now as a remarkable number of buyers seem to be compelled by three factors: great deals, low gas prices and winter weather," commented Michelle Krebs, Senior Editor of Edmunds' AutoObserver.com.

This month, trucks and SUVs will make up 51% all vehicles sold in the U.S., according to Edmunds.com. Before the spike in gas prices earlier this year, market share for trucks and SUVs had been even higher than that, said Edmunds.com sales analyst Jesse Toprak.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/22/autos/trucks_back/index.htm?postversion=2008122215

I had a feeling some stupid Americans would have short memories and be enticed by low gas prices and deals.

[David Dunham]

1. It's good news that at least some vehicles are being sold.

[DebJ]

2. I disagree...they will help to drive up the price of gas again.

[DainBramaged]

5. No it won't, vehicle sales have NO bearing on gasoline prices

With the closing of the Enron loophole, speculators can no longer use commodities as the stairway to heaven, so the natural laws of supply and demand come into play, and right now, supply is way up, demand down, refineries running at less than 80% capacity (remember when they were screaming for more refineries?) and even a 2.5 million bbl. a day production cutback by OPEC has failed to staunch the decline in oil prices.

When the world says enough is enough, the prices reach reality. What will happen are that the coming generation of new vehicles will be much more gas efficient, and that will help, and the Obama administration will accelerate research into alternative energy, but selling more cars and trucks will not drive the price of gas up. That like equating condom sales to sex. Does more condom sales mean more sex, or just the fact that people overbuy "just in case" they get laid more than once a month.

[DebJ]

6. Big trucks increase demand, right? They sure use a lot more

than our hybrid. Sorry, but I just can't so irritated at the local women who go to our local Panera for hours on end to sip coffee, and pull up in the Hummers. Drives me nuts.
You don't need a Hummer's pollution or gas consumption to get a cup of coffee down the street. Nor is it required to safely transport your children to daycare. I agree with my husband: he's been saying for years that he can't wait until Hummers become flower planters.

Yes, there are some people who NEED trucks. My sister is 6ft 9 inches and physically can't drive much else. Some people need them for work. Some people need them to get through rural roads. But most....nope. Waste of resources and breathable air. My opinion.

[DainBramaged]

12. No, and I'm not going to git in a stupid argument about this

If you have Hummer envy, you should also have Toyota Land Cruiser envy, Lexus envy, BMW ebvy, Mercedes envy. Toyota Tacoma envy, Nissan Titan envy, because they get as bad gas millage as a Hummer. If you spent have your life doing good things instead of demonizing OBJECTS, life would be sweet.


Stop blaming Hummers for the ills fo the world.

[DebJ]

13. No way it is envy! Don't blame Hummers, but the humans who

drive them and say to hell with everyone else on the planet, I need my own personal satisfactions.

[DainBramaged]

16. Do you have ANY idea why WOMEN drive the majority of BIG SUVs?

THEY feel safe with all of that METAL around them, period, and I do not condemn them for it. I've see tiny women who had automated steps on their Hummers to get in and out, BECAUSE they WANTED to feel SAFE, and that their KIDS are safe.


Safety, it means more to people than ecology, sorry you don't understand, and now I am done explaining.

[Terry_M]

21. You may understand why some people feel safer in those things

but do you also understand why some people hate those vehicles for what they collectively do to all of our futures a couple of decades from now? That has nothing to do with envy.

[DainBramaged]

22. When you list ALL OF THE OTHER LAND SCHOONERS in your diatribes about Hummers

I'l listen, until then, I'm going to go waste some gas.

[Luna_C_06]

23. Sure, they make them feel safe,

but don't they have a higher roll-over rate than smaller cars?

I'm not complaining though, my mom owns a SUV. Between our family (6 people) and friends, groceries, farm equipment and plants she uses every bit of space she has.

[DainBramaged]

24. No, because they are so few in numbers the roll over rate is minuscule

It's the small SUVs, the Blazers, Honda CR-V the Toyota Rav4 that have a terrible roll over ratio because people drive them like cars, and in panic maneuvering they suck and usually tip.

[WVRICK13]

40. First

I am not shocked that Americans are this fucking stupid. After all, we had eight years of Bush. Second, what is safe about vehicles that role over easily? DUMB, DUMB, DUMB.

[DainBramaged]

45. Show us the stats that big SUVs roll over any more than small SUVs

Hyperbole, it's what DU lives for.

[DailyGrind51]

58. Usage increases demand diminishing supply and increasing prices.

Economics 101

[JANdad]

67. Bullshit!

EOM

[DailyGrind51]

78. Typical "dittohead" response.

[JANdad]

81. No your argument is "typical"

the price of gas has NOTHING to do with "Supply and Demand"...it is controlled by speculators...plain and simple...that is why gas is down to what it is now...speculators getting burned and prices are where they should have been all along...even the Suadis' agree with this...

[flvegan]

3. I'm getting a Hummer tomorrow!!1

[Statistical]

15. I am going to get two. I will use one to tow the other one (n/t)

[oldnslo]

4. Further proof that American vehicle buyers are idiots.

A few weeks of low gas prices and the dummies are removing the for sale signs from the roadside derelicts they put there due to high gas prices, and now trading them in for MORE big gashogs? What short memories they have. High gas prices will be back, and even more roadside monoliths will exist. Maybe the happy owners can live in them after being evicted from their houses.

But I guess the dealers are right. Price it right, and you can sell most any piece of crap.

[DebJ]

7. Most Americans have no capacity or desire to see beyond the

next day.

[michreject]

64. I may be dead the day after nt

[ShadowLiberal]

11. Yeah, I mean OPEC is trying hard to get gas prices back up by cutting production

You'd think people would realize "gee since we just had 4 dollars a gallon gas a few months ago, and over $2 dollars a gallon gas for years until just now, maybe those outrageous prices could come back in the next year or two".

But that's unfortunately the American consumer at times, very short sighted, not realizing how much their decisions are going to cost them in the long run.

[GreenPartyVoter]

52. Yes, it is

[1]

8. "and suvs" is totally disingenuous in this article...

pickup trucks (ford then chevy) have been the top two best-selling vehicles for years. suvs are among the lowest sellers.


this article has some reveling numbers for 2008. there are links for the best and worst sellers.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/782/the-years-bestand-worst-selling-cars


pickups outsell cars and have for years. people need trucks for a variety of reasons.

dealers cannot give away suvs.


by grouping the two together, peter valdes-dapena shows himself to be an irresponsible journalist with an agenda.

[DainBramaged]

14. An agenda, like most people here at DU?

[1]

20. "bananas and kumquats will outsell other fruits..."

bananas have been the top selling fruit for like, forever. the ford pickup has been the best selling vehicle for the last 25-30 years.

nobody likes or buys kumquats. and very, very few now buy a suv.

"trucks and suvs" is a horseshit comparison as is "bananas and kumquats."



do you know how many new ford f150s were sold this year? almost 500,000.

do you know how many new hummers were sold this year? h2s and h3s combined, ~10,000.



americans are not out buying suvs in record numbers. and to mix suvs in with the sales numbers of pickup trucks is bullshit journalism.

[oldnslo]

30. F150's are so freakin hot they're selling for $11k at some dealers.

And you get an offer for free sex with a test drive....

[1]

33. the f150 is the largest selling vehicle in america. has been for almost 30 years...

what's your point?


i guess i need to add that the f150 is a pickup truck. it is NOT a suv.

do not mix pickup sales in with suv sales. they are very different vehicles with very different purposes. pickups have historically been top sellers.

suvs are dead.

[DainBramaged]

46. Tell me which dealer so I can go and buy a couple just to resell around these parts

[salguine]

9. You know what? Fuck us. We deserve whatever happens to us.

[doc03]

10. That's what I have been saying for weeks now

I have faith in the American people, gas prices go down SUV sales go up. I think you all have been giving the Big 3 a bad rap they made SUVs and bigger and bigger vehicles of all types because that's what people wanted. Admit it, Toyota and Honda have done the same. The first Accord had a 68 HP 4 cyl and the 2008 Accord has a 268 HP V-6. Same goes for the Camery and what about those Tundra pickups? One of the reasons the Japanese haven't been hurt as bad is the truck buyers are very brand loyal and it has taken them decades to even attempt competing with the Big 3 in that field. That is the reason they have an an advantage with the smaller cars because the Big 3 had concentrated on the the more profitable SUV and pickup market.

[Swamp Rat]

17. LOLOL!!!

:rofl:

[Ernesto]

18. It's all about demand folks.

Things wear out but the work,, It still must get done.
Our industrial base is a great consumer of trucks for sure. Tooling-up with new equipment is what optimistic managers do. This means that they must see "work" coming soon. On the other hand.... Americans are makin' the trucks and that's a good thing.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. I knew this would happen! nt

[silverojo]

25. Maybe it's because people will soon be SLEEPING in them

When your home's been foreclosed upon, you gotta sleep somewhere.

I'm only half-joking.

[yodoobo]

26. May be an aberration

There is a huge overstock of trucks and suvs. And for the last few years, suv and trucks have been produced in far high numbers than cars. That overstock has to be sold eventually. Its not like the dealers are going to send them back to the factory to be melted down or something.

Combine a massive overstock with massive rebates and low gas prices, it doesn't suprise me that suv/trucks will outsell cars at least in the short term while the overstock is worked off.

Heck some of the rebates they are offering is enough to pay the gas bill for several years.

Will be interesting to check back in a few months and see what the trend is.

[1]

27. people are NOT buying suvs... do a bit of research... do not believe all bullshit your read....

the suv is deader than dead.

only lame ass journalists that are desperate to play to an already convinced audience even present such bullshit.

don't be as ignorant as the republicans we love to poke fun about. learn the facts.

[DRoseDARs]

29. Your post is FAIL. Edmunds is the source of this; they're an independant group.

They've been around since 1966 helping people make purchasing choices by being a clearinghouse for information on new and used vehicles.

[1]

31. provide some facts, bud... i did. you want to believe suv sales are climbing. they are not...

suv sales are in the toilet.

sorry, but you are wrong.

[DRoseDARs]

34. So you contradict Edmunds with Consumer Reports?

You've got to be kidding. They're basically two sides of the same coin, two independent consumer groups, though Edmunds focuses on automobiles. That's almost as funny as finding out when I had my car accident in 2000 that the other guy had State Farm ... same as me!

First, your article has no date on it, the OP's is dated December 22nd. Second, your article mentions, "To generate our lists of the best- and worst-selling cars so far this year, we used automaker-provided sales numbers from January to November." The OP's explicitly says, "Trucks and SUVs will outsell cars in December, according to researchers at the automotive Website Edmunds.com, something that hasn't happened since February." They both have their own numbers, derived from automakers, but yours stops at November, while Edmunds looked exclusively at December. Talk about "bananas and kumquats..." :eyes:

[DRoseDARs]

36. Here, link to Edmunds.com press release the CNN article was partly based on:

http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press/138267/article.html

[1]

37. yes i do. my article (dated december 03, 2008) contains actual sales numbers...

here is a link to the original forbes.com article with vehicle sales numbers through november...

http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2008/12/03/2008-car-sales-forbeslife-cx_jm_1203cars.html

these numbers are not "units by manufactuer", these numbers are by actual model sales. since you seem to have a problem understanding what that means, think of it as "dodge ram pickup sales = 229,222, dodge durango suv sales = 19,985" not "dodge unit sales = 249207" (which completely mixes up the bananas and kumquats.)


the op article lumps the best selling vehicles (pickups) in with the worst selling vehicles (suvs) and makes the bold statement that "trucks AND suv" sales are up, without providing a single sales number of any kind. none. nada. zip.

"trucks and suvs" is a blatant misdirection. it is emotional propaganda. total bullshit.



pickup truck sales are exponentially greater than car sales. they have been for almost 30 years. and by such a huge number you could say "truck and radio flyer wagon" sales are up or "truck and shamwow towel" sales are up. trucks and "anything" sales would be up based on truck sales alone.

suv sales are flat. dead. done.


but don't ever let actual facts get in the way of your own ideas about the world. emotions and feelings about how you think things work are far more important than actual research when posting on the internet. actual numbers? pfffttt...

[DRoseDARs]

39. The Edmunds numbers are a projection for trucks and suvs, and you're the one acting emotional.

No, they aren't split by individual models, but whoop-dee-do. Most trucks and suvs made are built on similar chassis (which saves auto companies money by splitting a single production line to make different models) and get similarly (bad) gas mileage. The premise of the Edmunds piece is that truck and suv sales will outpace car sales THIS MONTH and this month only, not what they've done over this past year through November as your article from Forbes does. While your self-righteous ranting might hold true over the past year (through November), does it do so over THIS month? Edmunds projects no, Forbes says they didn't look at this month. pfffttt... right back at 'cha.

[DRoseDARs]

28. Good, I hope it seriously hurts those people when the gas prices inevitably go back up...

The vast majority of people DO NOT farm and/or DO NOT live where it generally snows a lot in winter. Most people truly DO NOT need trucks or SUVs and yet they continue to "buy into" the need for them.

[leftofthedial]

32. plus, tey're damn near giving them away

is the tax deduction for SUVs still in place?

[depakid]

35. "stupid Americans would have short memories"

Hard to feel sorry for folks like that down the line.

[Romulox]

41. "Thank god it passed!", right Depa? nt

[depakid]

43. When gas prices rise again- and they will

the shortsighted will be plumb out of luck- and it'll be their own doing.

[Romulox]

44. You're good! Wish you had gotten into the prediction business BEFORE the Wall Street melt down!

:rofl:

[depakid]

48. Here's a prediction:

Kooks who advocate the destruction of capitalism worldwide in favor of some "utopia" will continue to be disappointed....

and they'll continue to lose any credibility as they try to spread their whacky agenda on internet message boards.

[Romulox]

65. Will Bailout Boosters continue to pretend they didn't support the no strings Wall Street bailout

while providing "sage" advice about reforming other industries, even while the Wall Street bailout (that our prognosticators so vigorously supported) is revealed as a fraud? :hi:

[depakid]

77. Rational people will continue to support world leader's concerted efforts to revive the economy

and will stand behind by Kevin Rudd, Gordon Brown and Barak Obama.

:think:

Certain others will continue on their quixotic quests to destroy "capitalism- even at the expense of their own (and their neighbors) economic security.

[happyslug]

38. Trucks Outsells car in December, is like Ice Creams sales fall in December

When do most people buy cars, In the Fall, September, October and into November, then ALL vehicle sales drop off till the following Spring when it picks back up starting in March, and then big sales in April and May (June, July and August is when most people go on vacation, so sales occur before then, but the drop in the Summer is no where near what it is in December, January and February).

Thus the fact SUV and Trucks outsell Cars in December is almost meaningless (The same with the drop in Hybrid sales, meaningless given most people do NOT buy cars in December anyway). Like my comment, less Ice Cream, is Sold in December then July, why? Because it is WINTER and the weather is COLD outside (I am talking about the North American Market, other markets have different sales history for example I suspect Australia has more balance sales given its overall warmer weather then the United States and Canada). I will NOT be surprise if this continues into February 2009, for the same reason MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT BUYING VEHICLES THIS TIME OF YEAR.

Who is buying vehicles? First are business people who need a truck for hauling. This increases trucks sales (Through NOT SUV sales). Many of these people, do to the economy and the high price of fuel, did NOT buy a new Vehicles over the last two years, even when it needed to be replaced. Now many of these same people HAVE to replace their vehicles, they delayed the purchases as long as they could. This pushes up Truck sales.

Another, and I suspect smaller group, need a new car but it is winter and in the Northeast SUV sales are pushed by Winter weather. It has been one of the worse winter in the last five to ten years and worse is expected in the next few months. Thus SUV sales will increase if you are in a market for a new Vehicle during this time of the year. These buyers are looking for good deals and can wait, whatever they are driving today is working, so they can wait, but they want the best deal they can and in the winter SUVs look better and better (especially the newer smaller cross over SUVs, which get much better fuel economy then the older truck based SUVs).

A third group are people whose car "died" and needs to be replaced ASAP. This may be do to an accident and insurance is paying for the car, or the car needs to be replaced. These customers need a car TODAY to get to and from work (Or for whatever reason they used their old car). These are the people who will look at the lowest down payment and the lowest price even if the cost of operating the Vehicle is high. They different from the group above in that they can NOT wait, they need the car TODAY. These are the people most likely to buy a truck based SUVs for they can NOT wait for any cross-over to get to their local dealer. They still want a good deal, but will buy what the dealer has as opposed to what they would buy if they really had a choice.

Notice all three of the above groups will buy an SUV, three different types of SUVs, Trucks for the First group, Cross-over (small) SUV for the Second, and truck based SUVs for the third. The numbers being cited, "Trucks and SUVs" implies to me that truck sales are up, do to the first group I mentioned above, while SUV sales are Steady (Otherwise SUVs would be mentioned separately, for they are the most profitable). Come Spring when more people start to look at new cars I suspect Cars to outsell Trucks and SUV again (With Spring and Winter totals, when added together, clearly showing Cars outselling Trucks and SUVs).

Remember the old saying, "Figures don't lie, but liars Figure" i.e. people cites statistics they like even if the statistic is meaningless. Vehicle sales in December in terms of Cars vs Trucks and SUV is meaningless, it is overall sales that is important and for that you look at year to year data and such data clearly shows cars winning this sales race since February 2009.

[DainBramaged]

47. Trying to explain here is like lecturing a box of rocks

the folks in this thread have their minds made up, trucks bad, SUVs bad, Toyota's, good. Even though Toyota makes some of the most horrendous gas burners this side of China. So thanks for the explanation but next time, just go, cars good, Toyota's good, American trucks and SUV bad, and the rest will be nodding and pounding their keyboards in agreement.

[ogneopasno]

53. Are there still those bigass tax breaks on trucks and SUVs to for businesses? That could be part of

it, too. Nice post all around. And yeah, what Dain said.

[yodoobo]

76. yup

This is for tax year 2007, but it hasn't changed


http://www.sierrafinancialmortgage.com/newsletterPDF/2007/November07/KBCANewsletter-NOV07in.pdf

[nc4bo]

54. Very true in our case. We could use a new truck to replace our '96 F-150 w/250k miles...

It's taking quite the beating hauling around workers and a huge, usually heavily loaded welding rig up and down I-95. It needs to be retired to local or backup status even though it's still a solid truck.

A great deal on a new or lightly used F-250 would be a well timed blessing.

When we're ready to buy (and we're starting to seriously look), it won't because we want to, it's because we must.

[yodoobo]

68. Plus business buy trucks in December for the tax writeoff

That way they get the writeoff in '08 rather than a year from now if they buy in January/Feb.

[happyslug]

70. Only if their can Expense the purchase, otherwise the trucks as to be depreciated.

Given the high purchase price of a Truck AND its generally accepted life span (as far as the IRS is concerned) of three years. You can accelerate some of these depreciation but unless you are a large company that gets new trucks every year, you have to deprecate them to keep the IRA happy (and most large Companies still have to depreciate the Trucks over at least three years to keep the IRS happy, to expense something you have to show it was all used up within that year, a very hard thing to show given the life span of most trucks).

Please note, Cars are generally deprecated over three years, Trucks over a longer time period, the exact depreciation that can be taken is set by law and IRS Regulation. Careful review of those rules are needed, but given most people's use of trucks buying in December may give them the opportunity to depreciate the value of the Truck for the whole year instead of just one month, but the gain one's income do to any such accounting maneuver is minor compare to the value of the Truck itself.

[yodoobo]

75. trucks over a 6k lbs qualify for 100% "instant" depreciation

Up to $125,000 for trucks and $25,000 for suvs in the first year of operation if they are used 51% for business. This creates a huge incentive to make sure that purchase happens before January 1st.

http://www.sierrafinancialmortgage.com/newsletterPDF/2007/November07/KBCANewsletter-NOV07in.pdf

FTA:

"All this can add up to a substantial first-year deduction. For example, the
maximum first-year depreciation deduction for a $45,000 heavy SUV placed in
service during 2007 and used 100% for business will generally be $29,000
<$25,000 expense deduction + $4,000 MACRS deduction>. The maximum
first-year depreciation deduction for a $45,000 passenger auto placed in
service during 2007 and used 100% for business will only be $3,060."

It gets into more detail later on how this rule is even more generous of trucks.

[moondust]

42. The human mousetrap.

Mmmmmm, doesn't that guzzler look good?!! Mmmmmmm.....

[ShortnFiery]

49. Bullshit! Wishful thinking from the power elite. eom

[alarimer]

50. They are practically giving them away these days.

I am sure this is because people are getting some really good deals on vehicles that have not been selling well at all. I've seen ads for 10K off some of these things.

[DainBramaged]

51. That's with rebates and subsidy monies from the manufacturers to move 08 product

do you think there is that much margin in these vehicles anyway? Or do you think the auto makers work like the food makers, 100% mark up?

[alarimer]

74. I don't know if they are making money on them or not.

People are buying them probably because they can get some really good deals. I think maybe that's all those stats mean right now.

[shadowknows69]

55. Then people are truly morons and they deserve it when gas goes back to 4+ a gallon

I swear the whole fucking country has attention deficit disorder.

[DainBramaged]

57. No they don't, they just don't believe the government any longer

They knew it was a manufactured crisis, why blame the people for the crimes of the State?

[shadowknows69]

59. Because they should know that the Gov will probably manufacture the crisis again

[yodoobo]

69. The rebates and discount are so steep, it'll pay for the gas

for several years even at high gas prices.

I was reading about someone who bought an SUV rather than a small car because it made financial sense. This was when gas at $4.

This person factored in driving very few miles (about 5,000), high gas prices, but steep discounts/rebates on suvs and little on economy cars. The result was a wash.

So, he figures, why not drive a nice loaded vehicle for the same total cost, as opposed to a tiny economy car?

Can't say I disagree with that logic.

[EnviroBat]

56. Hooray! Stupid Wins Again!

We are a nation of retards...

[chrisa]

60. Are people stupid?

They see gas prices that have been low for only a few months, and they go and buy a car that they will likely have for 5 years.

[Jackpine Radical]

61. The obvious answer to your question, "Are people stupid?"

is Yes!

[Strelnikov_]

63. 15 years

Each one of these resource hogs will be on the road an average of 15 years.

And a year from now we could well be rationing, not due to geologic constraints, but due to the inability to deficit finance all the 67% of our petroleum consumption we import.

[Moochy]

62. End-Times-Ready Vehicles?

:evilgrin:


Mad Max 2 / The Road Warrior Vehicles http://www.madmaxmovies.com/cars/madmax2/index.html


Front-bumper seating for 2?


Bad Guys gotta get to work somehow...

[Bake]

66. There's a hybrid Caddy Escalade SUV ...

But I can't afford it.

Bake

[Kansas Wyatt]

71. HA! Auto companies & dealers just have to get rid of their inventory.

Who wants to bet that the oil market has been manipulated to lower the cost of gas this time, because car companies and dealers are left holding the bag on a bunch of gas guzzlers?

Dump them off on the American consumers, and sky-rocketing gas prices come back.

[OwnedByFerrets]

72. You just knew it was going to happen. Stupid people.

[McCamy Taylor]

73. Proof that Americans lack memory centers in the brain.

[Uzybone]

79. Some one mentioned a gas tax here a few weeks back

Friedman said the same thing in the NYTimes yesterday. They are both right. I think its time to enact a gas tax.

[polichick]

80. Thank God Obama has said that we will NOT go back to our old ways...

...when gas prices go down ~ as we did in previous decades.