So tell me again exactly when the Civil War ended

[Cyrano]

I pity the millions of informed, civilized Southerners who have to live alongside morons who think the confederate flag is a banner handed down by God.

Not to mention having to live with knuckle dragging Rethug senators and congresspeople who are intent on destroying unions, promoting ignorance by talking about "pointy-headed liberals," furthering bigotry with thinly veiled racial remarks, and who just can't wait for some flimsy reason to try to impeach Obama.

These are people who seem to thrive on hatred, divisiveness and exploiting easily-manipulated, uneducated people.

The Civil War supposedly ended almost 144 years ago. But for many die-hard imbeciles, and those who endlessly exploit them, it still goes on.

Can anyone tell me when the social/educational/ethical values of the South will enter the 20th century? -- Not to mention the 21st?

What brought on this rant is the Southern senator's votes against the auto "bail out" which is nothing more than their effort to destroy the UAW (not to mention all other unions).

To repeat my opening remark, I know there are millions of intelligent, progressive Southerners. So before anyone throws me any "picking on Southerners" crap, ask yourself why the majority of elected Southern politicians are grotesque fugitives from the dark ages.

[T Wolf]

1. The thugs' southern strategy of appealing to the racists in Dixie has been masterful.

They keep winning because the majority of people down there are racist.

Growing up in southern Virginia, I know of what I speak.

IF the majority were not backward and racist, would not more progressive pols win?

The fault lies not with the geography but with the humans that inhabit it.

[Taverner]

2. Keep in mind the OP is not picking on Southerners

But rather the "hillbilly" or "hick" portion of the population.

I would say "redneck" but a bunch of otherwise smart, cultured and ethical people have claimed that name as their own for some strange reason.

[Greyhound]

10. I think it's mostly a Texas thing (BTW, to southerners Texas is not part of the south). n/t

[Taverner]

12. I will debate you on that very issue (Texas being part of the South)

As it was a Slave State in the Missouri Compromise (California was a Free State)

And the Texas Rangers fought on the side of the Confederacy.

[Greyhound]

13. I'm just a westerner, this is what I was told at least a hundred times while living in GA.

I personally think their obsession with the "war of northern aggression" is more than a little strange after so long, but when in Rome...:shrug:

[Taverner]

14. Aw mannn! I wanted a good debate!

If I can't get an argument, can I have some abuse then?

:D

[Greyhound]

15. You're ugly and your mother dresses you funny!

:hi:

[mitchum]

23. Texans are "Cracker Come Latelies"...

wannabe southerners

[patrice]

3. They're the party that inspired Timothy McVeigh, 'nuf said. nt

[Lasher]

4. Thank you for pointing out that intelligent Southerners actually exist.

And with that caveat, what fair minded person would complain when you rightly point out a few shortcomings that most of us Neanderthals have?

[leftofthedial]

5. still ongoing

the jury is out

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. You'd think the southerners would be a little more sympathetic with

the idea of northerners protecting their 'peculiar institution' of unionization. They did fight a war to protect their own 'peculiar institution'.

[Cyrano]

7. For far too many of them, that war ain't over.

But their hatred of unions is the hatred of the Southern ruling class for the idea of paying a living wage to the peasants. What I find most amazing is how they consistently get the peons to vote against their own well being.

[deaniac21]

8. Intelligent post.

[NightWatcher]

9. picking on southerners, picking on southerners......try living down here amongst them

I do (and will) get a kick when we reach January 20th and they all have one collective tantrum.


-greetings from South Georgia, Ya'll

[Blarch]

18. South Georgia ...

Ouch, sorry to hear that. anyway, How is Saxby ? :puke:

[MissMarple]

11. The war never really did end, did it? We are still fighting it.

But many evil people fan the flames and renew the angst for their personal gain. It has become a business that began as a romanticized passion. Too many still feel the "loss" of something they actually never had, and blame the modern world for the imagined wrongs. They are the too easy prey for the predators among them. Too me it seems like just a bunch of self indulgent nonsense and a yearning for some sort of Utopia that will really never be. Whether it is religious fundamentalism, racial purity, xenophobic prejudice, or a fatal parochialism, or denial about Lee's surrender, they drag it around like a badge of honor. Pathetic, and all too human. I keep thinking a tincture of time will help, but how much time do they need? I think, however, that the continued mobility of our population and the continued influx of immigrants will help dilute the regional concentration.

Sadly, this kind of thinking will never really go away. Some people just don't handle change all that well.

[Selatius]

16. As a Mississippi resident, I take no offense whatsoever to your comments, but to answer your...

question, I'd say there are two, or three if you want to split hairs, big reasons why so many rural folks around here vote against their own interests or hold onto decayed, old views.

1. Education. There's a very degraded education infrastructure here. This state is not the richest in the nation. Never was, never will be. People are poorly educated in many facets including labor issues.

2. Churches. Churches are a very big facet of southern living. That said, a lot of what people believe in is formed in the pulpit, so there's a lot of room for preachers to abuse their powers by filling their heads with slack-jawed notions, and nobody will challenge them unless they want to be accused of being godless. People here supported the invasion of Iraq, but if they tried to think for themselves rather than listen to talking heads, they'd find that Jesus was never in favor of war. You've got people like Pat Robertson calling for war in Iraq, and you have people like Rick Warren calling for war with Iran. It's not Jesus' way if you read the New Testament as opposed to listening to bully-pulpit preachers.

3. Which could be placed under 1, is talk radio. There's nothing but right wing radio around these parts. Rick and Bubba, Lars Larsen, Rush Limbaugh--you name it; we got it on the radio. It's so one-sided. A lot of people getting the wrong ideas here, and a lot of people are talking about economics when they never had one economics course, let alone several like I have as a requirement for my degree.

[SeattleGirl]

17. It didn't. n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

19. You kidding

Well I don't know about anyone else but I have lived here in TN for almost 20 yrs. I am from the north. I have travelled the world and the states and find when I moved here it was kind of a culture shock. I remembered working with a young lady just graduated from high school. We got to talking about history. I told her I liked world history. She said she like the period of the civil war. Of course I laughed but I believe some of these people haven't forgotten the civil war. I was talking with a guy that works for a gas company and he is against unions. I told him although I never joined the union I supported their right to have one and it was the backbone of this country. He said he thought this country was headed for a civil war. I said I hope not. But am afraid that these southern senators are causing this kind of harm to the country.

[MissMarple]

20. Welcome to DU, southernyankeebelle. The South can seem like a very different place.

I spoke with a history professor once, well more than once and more than one professor, if truth be told. This guy was from Alabama from a long time Alabama family. He said the South is the only part of the U.S. that has lost a MAJOR war. They have not gotten over it. He talked of going to the cemetery on Memorial Day and, among others, placing a wreath on Uncle Edward's grave. Uncle Edward died in the War Between the States, or, alternatively, the War of Northern Aggression. But he was remembered with the same care as Granddad Vance who died in WWII and, Uncle Stephen who died in Vietnam. I agree, something other than family pride and love is stirring the pot.

[Retired AF Dem]

21. Here we go again

us poor folks in the south being picked on again. It don't matter one bit that it was the Democrat party that was pro slavery, Jim Crow, KKK and segregation. I wish the dip shits would read a little history and come to terms on just what party ended slavery. I have my own reasons not to like the Republican party, mostly big business trumps the working man, but when it comes to civil rights, the Democrat party owes alot of apologies.

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. The Democrat party?

My friend, you just outed yourself.

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. Or is maybe a recent convert

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. "member since 2004" nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. I meant a recent convert to voting Dem. 2004 counts in my book. Any conversions during

the ** years count. :)

[Cyrano]

30. Retired AF Dem. You're confusing party labels with ideology.

The South was solid Democratic until the mid 1960s when Lyndon Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act and the The Civil Rights Act. At that point, most Southern Democrats instantly became Republicans. The South has been almost entirely Republican ever since. The label changed, but the bigotry, ignorance, xenophobia and love of the stars and bars remained. (Party of Lincoln my ass.)

Lyndon Johnson was a Texan who knew the effect his actions would have. When signing the Civil Rights Act, he remarked, "This will cost us the South for a generation." He was wrong. It's been more than three or four generations that the South has stuck with the demented, hate-driven ideology of the Republican Party.

In this past election, the majority of voters in Virginia and North Carolina stood up for reason, fairness and sanity. One can only hope that, at long last, the South is coming out of it's self-induced state of ignorance and the longing for an "Ole' South" that never really existed. The only reality was slavery: beatings, rape, torture, tearing black families apart and lynchings.

It's past time for today's South to forget about the "Gone With the Wind" fantasy of sipping mint juleps on the porch, while watching the "darkies" labor in the fields and singing spirituals because they were so "happy."

And it's way past time for educated, enlightened southerners, as well as all the rest of us, to work at bringing the South into the present. Easier said than done, but where ignorance rules, poverty will always be present.

[fla nocount]

24. The struggle for state's rights continues.

A less myopic view of the conflict.

[Cyrano]

31. Hi, fla nocount. I'm not sure as to the point you're making, but

"states rights" was always code for keeping Jim Crow going in the South.

Republicans have always loved talking about "states rights" because it was a way of saying "fuck the n*****s" without having to actually say it.

Jim Crow, for the most part, was defeated and crushed in the 1960s. But many Republicans can still be heard screeching the term "states rights" when they're trying to pass some piece of poisonous, despicable legislation aimed at thwarting blacks, Hispanics, labor unions, immigrants, Muslims, and every other imaginable "THEM." (You're either a white southerner who honors your Southern Heritage and the Confederate flag, or you're one of "THEM".)

I really don't know from whence comes their seemingly bottomless pit of hatred.

(Sorry it took so long to answer. I didn't read your post until now.)

[fla nocount]

34. During the first half of the 19th century states rights meant just that.

The creeping federal influence was steadily taking the right of self determination from states and regions. This was acerbated by the fact that the south was the source of much foreign export, cotton, wool and the like. The more temperate climate also made it the country's bread basket The north had a manufacturing base that didn't do much to benefit the south. This friction had existed since the founding of the republic and the push for a common currency. The issue of slavery as a cause for war came as an after thought a couple of years into the conflict.

As for the either/or, look at the avatar...that's how I identify. Not white, not black, not christian but there's entertainment in the observation.

[Cyrano]

35. So let me get this straight. The South fired on Fort Sumter because

they wanted to keep control over the "... export of cotton, wool and the like"???

Perhaps we should have called it the "Textile War."

[fla nocount]

36. They wanted control of both resources and destiny.

This looking down the nose at the yokels is not a new thing as far as the industrialized north is concerned. The people in the south felt that they were viewed as a resource, a commodity and that they weren't getting a square deal in exchange.

Taxation and exploitation without representation, that sorta thing. Resentment under the knuckle of da man.

You're right though, the trade in textiles played a major role in the dynamics of the game particularly with Britain. The trade in textile goods for British mills was what the blockades were about. The trade fueled the confederate war effort and the regions economy. Blockade runners knew no country or region, Charleston, Boston, Kingstown, Jamaica WTF's the difference. Think Halliburton in Dubai.

Once again, I don't have a horse in this race. I'm an observer like Gomez, there's just something about train wrecks.

[laststeamtrain]

25. Was it when the first southern president of the post WWII era was elected?

You know , Harry Truman.

[TexasObserver]

28. There are still jackasses who celebrate The Confederacy.

And the irony is that the more a person worships the only group to rebel against the United States, the more they also consider themselves the most patriotic Americans.

Ain't cognitive dissonance convenient?!

[Kansas Wyatt]

33. Why do they keep picking the losing side in reenactments?

Do they enjoy being losers? Do they really think the outcome will be different if they holler and scream a little louder?
:shrug:

[Rebubula]

37. Well...

...If they just had some Smores Shnapps - maybe they could win.




-South Park reference for people too mature to watch Comedy Central...

[TexasObserver]

38. they still haven't figured out they will lose every time

[Karenina]

32. Errraaa... See, it hasn't.

:hide:

[bertman]

39. 4pm April 9th, 1865