Nationalism: what is it?

[Boojatta]

For example, if we consider one specific nationalism, then it might include the following elements:

1. a system of laws
2. a political system
3. a particular language or a relatively short list of languages
4. a particular geographical territory

Can you add to the list?

Please don't add "culture." It is vague. One might put all of the first three entries under the heading "culture."

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. It's a concept of community organization based around the people themselves, not on a ruler

[JVS]

2. Your definition carries some nationalism of its own.

I would say that nationalism is the existence of political entities based on ethnicity

"around the people themselves" assumes the nationalist stance that the people are defined in terms of ethnicity

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. No, it means that nationalism is - in let's say a pure theoretical form -

any group of people organizing themselves into a political unit based on the people, not on some ruler/figurehead.

So, the United States (organized as the people) as opposed to ancient Egypt (organized around Pharaoh, with the people being there to serve and be served by Pharaoh, and Pharaoh's people being whatever people his military can keep in check).

Of course, in the world today, most nations' people still share a large ethnic heritage within that nation, and not with their neighbors.

But that is not the fault of a definition of a word; that is a fault, if any fault is even needed, of economics, geography, and history.

[JVS]

7. "based on the people" is the sticking point. A state can be based on the people and not at all...

nationalist. If we organized a state in the mid east for all Shia Muslims we don't have a nationalist state.

[Boojatta]

14. What if "we organized a state for" some but not all

Shia Muslims in the Middle East. Are you able to conclude that it wouldn't be a nationalist state or do you need more information?

[rockymountaindem]

3. That's a good start

It's also based on a belief that the people in question have a shared history and a common destiny/future, as well as shared beliefs or some intrinsic quality that makes group members all alike.

[Boojatta]

9. How long is the waiting period during which a shared history

accumulates before there's enough shared history for an immigrant in America to become an American nationalist?

What if there is a shared past, but it's prior to any surviving written records? Is a shared archaeology enough or is it essential that the shared past include history?

[rockymountaindem]

10. Those are not easy questions for anybody to answer

Considering that nationalism is a relatively novel phenomenon dating back only about 200 or 225 years, the amount of time it takes for a group of people to gel as a "nation" can't really be defined. In the case of the European national states, the concept of nationalism began to emerge, as I said below, from the idea that it was possible to be united with one's countrymen in ways other than simply pledging allegiance to the same ruler. Instead there has to be some kind of shared kinship which transcends government. Nationalism also began to rise as the importance of religion in public and private life began to decline.

Lots of nations around the world have long histories of a shared past prior to the modern era. Jews and Kurds are two good examples, I think. The Chinese and Japanese are two others.

[Idealism]

4. None of those things on your list are nationalism

Nationalism is a psyhological shared feeling with people whom you feel come from your same background that by banding together you are greater than all of your enemies. It doesn't mean "Americans being proud" because as we all know, many American's look down on the others. Foreigners, the GLBT community, and still even african-americans get exluded from the collective and there are plenty of people who think they're "Un-American" and other stupid expressions like that.

It was called jingoism in the early 1900s, and since then morphed into nationalism

[Boojatta]

6. If nationalism meant "Americans being proud" then many Iraqi nationalists would be very confused.

[Idealism]

11. I don't know why you thought that statement was exclusive to Americans

[rockymountaindem]

8. Your last sentence doesn't tell the whole story

Nationalism is more or less believed to have begun with the American and French Revolutions, when people decided it would be possible to have popular sovereignty instead of just living on territory that was supposedly the personal property of a king or some other ruler.

Jingoism stemmed from a poem written in Britain during the Russo-Turkish War of 1878-79:

We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too
We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true
The Russians shall not have Constantinople.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism

[RB TexLa]

12. It's a mental illness and should be treated as such.

[OxQQme]

13. Like 'shirts' and 'skins'

or the lakers vs celtics.
Us versus them.
We're better.
Oh yeah? My dad can beat up your dad.
Fostered by organized sports.

[cali]

15. "Nationalism: A state of mind where one hates another's country

more than they love their own".

From Diary Of A Man In Despair