What is a productive way to talk about the South?

[skooooo]

Is there anyway to discuss how the South seems to be the strongest vestige of the Republican party and of fundamentalism?

I imagine that when America elected Bush twice, many countries criticized America while realizing that not all Americans supported Bush. Regardless, such criticisms had some validity, I think we would all admit. Enough people changed their votes this last time around to make a difference. Perhaps this will earn us some credibility around the world with our neighbors.

Are there any parallels to be made ??

:shrug:

[gizmo1979]

1. Fuck them.

Repukes nearly let them drown and they still re-elect the bastards.Rot in hell.Gloves are off screw em.

[derby378]

3. Wrong answer...

Texas could easily flip blue if the national apparatus would just stop ignoring us and step up their game. The 50-state strategy was a nice idea, but we didn't see near enough of it to count for anything.

[backscatter712]

6. Oh, I wouldn't say it counted for nothing...

Obama won North Carolina, Virginia and Florida, and came close in Georgia. Some of the South flipped blue, and some of it went soft and forced the Repukes to spend money in states they thought were safe...

[skooooo]

11. You make a good point there...

:thumbsup:

I'm a little worried about Kentucky myself.

[derby378]

19. I was talking strictly about Texas

As I said earlier, most of our gains were on the local level. Dallas County's DA has been using DNA testing to free a bunch of wrongfully-convicted inmates. But we have yet to significantly increase our presence on the Federal level.

[gizmo1979]

13. It's my answer and I'm sticking to

it.Didn't say smarter people can't be more reasonable,but I'm really pissed about these few fucks leading the rest of us around like idiots.Creationism,stem cell,science in general.It's the same fucks all the time.They are the ones most responsible for this mess including making us world wide pariahs.If I was King they would be in a heap of trouble!

[backwoodsbob]

5. I'd say the same way you deal with California

oyu know...the place with the repuke governor that passed prop 8

[GrizzlyMan]

15. Ziiiiiiing

I love it. Well played.

[skooooo]

17. Prop. 8 was a fluke..

...as opposed to a pattern of behavior that's gone on for a long time.

[GrizzlyMan]

23. Yeah, but it still passed

Proving that even in Calif., hate can find a way.

[skooooo]

27. You're dodging the issue....

I see your point, but the comparison falls apart quickly. California is not Mississippi.

[GrizzlyMan]

37. I'm not dodging anything

My point is hate can manifest itself anywhere. And it can.

[DonCoquixote]

46. which them

The New orleans people who have voted Democrat or,
the rest of the state that has been GOP, and has always HATED New orleans?

Sadly, rural trumps city, but that does not mean New orleans voted GOP, get your facts right.

[derby378]

2. In Texas, you can blame both the Reagan years and DeLay's redistricting scandal

It was a one-two punch for Texas Democrats. Most of our long-term gains since 2003 have been on the local level. Even Nick Lampson lost DeLay's old seat to another Republican this year.

[Uncle Joe]

4. As part of the United States, period. n/t

[skooooo]

8. It seems to me that the South..

...has some distinct qualities that can be measured, as any other region in the US does.

The standard of living is lower, wages are lower, social services are lower, etc.

Why should facts, when presented, be seen as bigotry ?

[Uncle Joe]

25. I believe there is a physics law that states something to the effect

that an object's properties can be changed just by merely observing it.

It seems to me, if you truly want the South and for that matter any other region to be as a United State condition it must first be observed that way or it will never happen.

The condition of the North must be equated with that of the South and vice versa for that transformation to take place.

For so long as people focus on regions as being distinct from one another, instead of focusing on their commonalities, their psychological estrangements will always be an Achilles Heel to the people's best interests.

[screembloodymurder]

7. You know, I'm really beginning not to like those people.

But they do have some good looking women and they can cook.

[skooooo]

10. It's not "those people..."

It's institutions, traditions, habits, and perhaps an exacerbated quality that American in general has -- to look inward and be distrustful of outsiders?

Don't try to make my thread about "those people." There are reasons "those people" do things, and that's what needs to be understood.

[screembloodymurder]

47. Just playing with words skooooo ...

"That one", "those people" :sarcasm:
But I really do like beautiful women and good food, although at my age, not necessarily in that order.

[supernova]

39. We love you too, sbm

:*

[kentuck]

9. They left $7 an hour jobs for $14 dollars an hour...

That's pretty good money for them and their families. They were very appreciative to get those jobs with the foreign auto plants.

[Seen the light]

12. When North Carolina was red, these threads pissed me off

Now that it's a blue state, well, they're really pissing me off.

[skooooo]

14. Threads that try to discuss something productively?

Sorry that offends you.

[Seen the light]

21. Not you so much as some of the responses

I guess I should have addressed this to them though.

[skooooo]

28. I appreciate your response..

I don't have any answers. The kinds of discussions I've seen about the South on here mirror the discussions about education.

Those without higher education are quick to point out that being smart doesn't only come from formal education. (True)
Educated people point out that education teaches people how to think more critically and carefully. (True)
People with less invested in higher education pull out the "elitist" word, and discussion breaks down.

:shrug:

[bluestateguy]

16. We should take NC, VA and FL and then cast off the rest of the South as it's own independent nation

We don't need them, and progressivism would be better off without them in America.

[skooooo]

18. Not productive!

How can you say that, really?

[bluestateguy]

22. You're right

Maybe someday Georgia will be of some use. Maybe. Someday.

[msblueinredstate]

29. The South

has got alot of good people.:) I am from Mississippi and I love where I live. I don't hate people just because they think different.

[skooooo]

32. Of course the south is full of good people.

I have spent a lot of time there. I'm not talking about hating anyone. Hate is not part of the discussion. The discussion is whether we are able to talk about regional differences and attitudes held by a great many people (not all) that directly effect the rest of the country.

[bluestateguy]

36. I agree

There are many good people in the South.

But the good people in the South are outnumbered by all the BAD people in the South. Because this is a democracy, the bad people put more bad people into office to represent those states in Congress, and we all have to live with the consequences.

[TroglodyteScholar]

45. Thanks!!

We're all just trying so hard to gain your approval!

Oh yea, who the fuck are you, anyway?

[MrCoffee]

20. Aren't you the cutest little thing?

[MedleyMisty]

24. Put regional bigots on your ignore list?

That's what I do. If you can't see humans as individuals and hate them based on stupid shit like skin color, reproductive organs, sexual orientation, and where they live, I have nothing to say to you.

Regional bigotry reeks of class bigotry like homophobia smells like sexism, by the way.

[skooooo]

26. Ok, but there is a difference between "biggotry"...

...and discussing issues that seem to have some regional reality, wouldn't you agree??

Is there no way to talk about the fact that southern states are more likely to push religion over science and critical thought in the public sphere?

[RoseMead]

44. Sure, those discussions can be had

And they can be very useful. But as you pointed out previously, referring to "those people" as if they were all the scum of the earth isn't the way to do it. And that's what we have waaaay to much of here on DU: "Fuck those people!" I understand the frustration behind that attitude, but it's a discussion killer.

During the primaries, I spent a fair bit of time trying to explain why my state is the way it is, and so did some other folks from WV. I thought those discussions were very interesting, and worthwhile. It can be done. But it requires some respect, or at least civility be shown on both sides of the conversation, and that's kinda rare here when it comes to certain issues.

[KatyMan]

30. Because in the North

All is blue and wholesome and progressive and there are no republicans or fundies and everyone helps everyone else and no one hates anyone (except the Southerners)...
You might not know this, but a whole heckuva lot of southerners are transplanted northerners, a whole lot of southerners are progressives, anti-war, Obama supporters.
To say the actions of 6 southern senators represent the whole of the population of the south is just plain moronic.

edited for typos

[skooooo]

33. The votes and policies of those states..

...are manifest of SOMETHING. You tell me then, what does it mean unless it says something about the majority of voters?

[The Traveler]

31. It is a matter of education

The Republicans used racist fears to entrap white southerners and make them receptive to the rest of their propaganda. In pre-1968 Georgia, it was hard to tell who was more revered ... Jesus or FDR. Had RFK and MLK not been assassinated, things would have worked out differently down here. Though Georgia skipped most of the violence of that turbulent era (school bus burnings in Boston, huge riots in other major cities), the Billy Bob types witnessed all that from their television sets with a mixture of fear and revulsion.

Southerners in general and Georgians in particular have a high regard for military service, and during the Viet Nam era it was all too easy to blur the line between opposing the war and condemning the soldier. Of course, certain politicians on both sides of that issue were guilty of muddying those waters in one fashion or another.

All this made the South ripe for the seductive, carefully encoded words of Nixon and later on Reagan. In this and in many other ways, fault lines in the Southern psyche have been carefully, skillfully, and ruthlessly exploited. The Southerner has been sold out in a spectacular fashion, and the Southerner is aware of it. The problem is, the Southerner perceives no viable option in the Democratic party ... I am over generalizing here, of course ... but is desperate for a more populist vision that embraces social conservatism.

Hence the popularity of both Huckabee and Palin. They are perceived as populists, distinct from the neo-cons and financial elites that have dominated Republican policy. But they are also perceived as being strong advocates of social conservatism.

The average guy down here has more faith the economic judgment and priorities of Barack Obama than of Mitt Romney. Now all we have to do is get them to ease up on the repressive social agenda.

So how do we do that? Howard Dean always approached the South with respect and common sense. To paraphrase Dean, "It is a sign of respect to ask someone for their vote." Dean's argument was that even if votes were not won this way an exchange of mutual respect would thus be initiated, and that this would subtly influence the political dialog and make easier for a Democratic majority to emerge and govern well.

We gotta a lot of work to do down here, but it can be accomplished with patience and respect on behalf of some of our more misguided brothers and sisters. Understand that a lot of money has been spent over a lot of years to give form to their fears. It is harder to fear someone who respects you while standing strong in their opposition to your agenda. And with that lessening of fear, it becomes possible for logic to work its magic and liberate the mind.

Just my viewpoint, as a Southerner who has oft fallen into despair over the choices of my peers.

And now that have spouted all this high fallutin' stuff, anyone got any ideas of how I can get the hell out of this place???? These people are whacked! :rofl:

Trav

[readmoreoften]

34. The place with the cities where all the New Yorkers and Californians are moving?

:shrug:

Like Austin, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, Atlanta?

[Lars39]

35. How about ditching the words, "the South"?

Given the history, it seems divisive and antiquated. Using southern region, southern states, or naming the individual states is more accurate and less inflaming.

[backscatter712]

38. I prefer more descriptive terms...

like "Deep Jesusland" :evilgrin:

[skooooo]

40. That's a good point...

...especially since some southern states did vote for Obama.

Ding ding ding!

You get the most productive post prize!

[jpak]

41. Bless their hearts!

:evilgrin:

[pacalo]

42. I could give you a long essay on the dynamics down here,

but it would likely be misinterpreted, sliced & diced, &, not being a masochist, I'm not about to step into the role of messenger on this topic: race relations, which is the factor that I strongly believe drives those with hatred to the "I've got mine & I'm not about to share it" side of politics.

I will say that, as an extremely fair-minded progressive who strives to keep a fair perspective in general, I've had very haunting experiences myself with people of color who pre-judge me by my blond hair & blue eyes.

[skooooo]

43. I met a young black man from the south..

..a few years ago who told me he did not learn that it was possible to trust a white person until he had been in the military. So sad, but at the same time understandable I guess.