Catholic Church Against Making Gay Death Penalty Illegal

[Are_grits_groceries]

The Catholic Church a body that has been staunchly opposed to the death penalty does not want to include international protections by the United Nations for gay people who face death penalty charges in countries where homosexuality is illegal. The Vatican is voicing opposition and plan to go against the French proposal that is introducing this piece of human rights resolution.

"This week the Vatican's permanent observer to the United Nations, said the Holy See would oppose a resolution that would protect gays from being killed, just because they are gay because it would "add new categories of those protected from discrimination" and could lead to reverse discrimination against traditional heterosexual marriage.

The French resolution, scheduled to be proposed this week, recommends protecting Gays and Lesbians from being jailed or killed because of their sexual orientation and is being introduced to the UN on behalf of the European Union.

But Archbishop Celestino Migliore said, if adopted, the resolution would create “new and implacable discriminations," and also said that states which do not recognize same-sex unions as 'matrimony' will be pilloried and made an objects of pressure.

http://queersunited.blogspot.com/2008/12/catholic-church-against-making-gay.html

Evil people!!!!! The karma train is rolling along now and headed their way.

This makes Prop 8 look minor IMHO.

[hlthe2b]

1. Is this really for real?

:wtf:

[Are_grits_groceries]

3. Yes.

Here's another newslink: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20081202/tpl-uk-vatican-homosexuals-43a8d4f.html

[struggle4progress]

51. Holy See not in favor of death penalty for gays, Vatican spokesman clarifies

http://catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14502

Is the Vatican unbelievably regressive on some issues? Doh! Does the very mention of gay marriage still produce some hyperventilating panic attacks in Vatican land? Well, yeah. But does the Vatican want gays prosecuted or executed for homosexuality? No: in fact, one of the last times I went to a Catholic church, the Franciscan priest preached an anti-homophobia sermon

[Cronus Protagonist]

63. ...but not opposed to killing gays,, so go ahead and send them to God for judgement

Let's be clear.

[roguevalley]

67. what can one expect when the head of the Inquisition and a hitler youth is pope?

[TheWraith]

64. It's being spun, actually.

It's true that the Vatican is opposing a UN effort to make sure that homosexuality is legal. However it's not like the Vatican is specifically campaigning for countries to be able to execute gay people.

[baldguy]

2. So, cannibalistic rapists & child murderers should be shown compassion & mercy

but gays should be put to death?

[tblue]

17. Not to mention many PRIESTS!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. No surprise. Eschew religious ideology. It's a great way to tie yourself up in hypocritical knots.

[Midlodemocrat]

5. Nothing on the Holy See about this. I'll reserve my judgment, thank you.

The Catholic Church is vehemently pro-life. They would not come out in support of the death penalty in any circumstances.

[PeaceNikki]

7. I don't think anyone is contending they are "pro-death penalty", just anti-protection

Here's a Reuter's article: http://africa.reuters.com/wire/news/usnL2689612.html

Pointing out that homosexuality was still punishable by death in some Islamic countries, the editorial said what the Vatican really feared was a "chain reaction in favour of legally recognised homosexual unions in countries, like Italy, where there is currently no legislation".

...

Human rights groups say homosexuality is still punishable by law in more than 85 countries and by death in a number of them, including Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Yemen. Vatican spokesman Rev Federico Lombardi said "no one wants the death penalty or jail or fines for homosexuals" but defended Migliore's comments, adding that the Vatican was in the majority on the issue.

[hlthe2b]

10. That is my understanding... I just can not believe this is official.

As much as I am antagonized by the Vatican and disagree with them vehemently on issues of birth control, homosexuality, women in the priesthood, and choice, they have been consistent on "life" issues, including strong opposition to the death penalty...

[Gemini Cat]

45. That's what they like to say.

[Zhade]

48. Also pro-covering up child rape by their own.

Not the greatest track record on human rights.

[deadmessengers]

6. Wait. I HAVE to have read this wrong.

The Catholic church has a problem with the death penalty being applied to, say, someone who killed, say, a carload of schoolchildren, but they have no problem with someone being executed because they're GAY?

Seriously? That has to be a typo. It just HAS to be. I'm begging here - please tell me that no one is that fucking stupid.

[PeaceNikki]

8. No, they aren't advocating it at all, they are just not supporting protection against it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. They weren't for the Holocaust, per se...

:eyes:

[PeaceNikki]

12. Oh, I hear ya.

Believe me, I am one of the LAST people who would "defend" the Catholic church (or any organized religion) and that is not what I am doing.

[rug]

13. Godwin.

You lose.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. Fuck that.

And fuck you, too.

[rug]

22. Is there a thought in that post?

Or do you just have an urge to spew shit?

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. Better than what you thoughtlessly regurgitate and think is wit. nt

[rug]

30. Well, in that case

fuck you too.

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. You already said that

when you invoked Godwin.

[rug]

33. I didn't invoke the Holocaust.

[RaleighNCDUer]

37. No, you invoked godwin which is a cowards way out of a discussion

by pretending that comparisons to the holocaust automatically invalidates the argument.

What it does, is makes any reference to fascism or nazis or the holocaust taboo - shutting down discussion. The entire concept of 'Godwins Law' was meant to STOP making valid comparisons, thus preventing the left from ever referencing the excesses of the far right.

That's not what we are about here.

[rug]

61. Equating opposition to a UN resolution with the death penalty for gays is not what we are about.

Comparisons to the Holocaust with smarmy smileys is not discussion.

Neither is attempting to call someone a coward.

What else do you want to say?

[RaleighNCDUer]

70. By opposing the resolution, because of fears of 'reverse discrimination'

the church is taking a stand which will see gays executed for being gay.

In the same way, the church not only did not oppose Nazi germany, but supported the nazis because of their anti-communist stance, which did see gays, jews, communists, trade unionists and a few million others executed for being who they were.

There is a direct parallel.

Invoking godwin, to dismiss that argument, is cowardly.

[Hanse]

41. Did you know they executed homosexuals during the Holocaust?

Just checking.

[varkam]

42. Are you seriously going to cry Catholic Persecution in *this* thread?

Really?

[Warren DeMontague]

73. Like I said downthread. You secular athiest whackjobs are just WAY too intolerant.

You just don't understand and appreciate the deep FAITH-BASED NEED some devoutly religious people have to run other peoples' lives, even to the extent of killing them for "crimes" like homosexuality, blasphemy, fucking outside of marriage, etc.

Damn you and your intolerance!

:eyes: :sarcasm:

[mondo joe]

43. Does Godwin's law apply when noting that institions that were complicit in the holocaust

were complicit?

[Zhade]

50. You can't call Godwin's law on topics that actually involve Nazis.

NT!

[Occulus]

52. Godwin can go straight to hell. n/t

[mondo joe]

53. Godwin is a Nazi. NT

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. Explain.

You can't just say "you lose."

You need to provide an argument first.

[rug]

60. Explain why opposition to a UN resolution equals the supporting the Holocaust.

You can't just roll your eyes.

[gollygee]

68. I hate Godwin's law

One of the most important lessons of the Holocaust, maybe THE most important lesson, is that it COULD happen again. A "law" that tries to cut off any discussion of the FACT that it could happen again is a BAD LAW.

[rug]

9. You read it right but he wrote it wrong.

"Vatican spokesman Rev Federico Lombardi said "no one wants the death penalty or jail or fines for homosexuals" but defended Migliore's comments, adding that the Vatican was in the majority on the issue."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20081202/tpl-uk-vatican-homosexuals-43a8d4f.html

[sarcasmo]

14. Religion, the blind leading the blind. Makes me sick.

[SammyWinstonJack]

23. !

:thumbsup:

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. So not killing gays is equivalent to recognizing gay marriage?

The one leads directly to the other?

This is why I am an atheist.

[Canuckistanian]

16. Bizarre, isn't it?

Religion is SUCH a comfort.

[CatholicEdHead]

24. Even better above, it "discrimates" against those wanting "traditional marriages"

:crazy: :crazy:

Yep, if gays and lesbians they are discriminating against those wanting a marriage of two diffrent genders. :crazy:

Many in the Vatican are really out of touch.

[MineralMan]

18. Aww....shit!

Jesus, if he really existed as depicted in the Bible, would be kicking butt on these assholes.

More evidence that it's all a sham.

[RedCappedBandit]

19. Wait, the catholic church is full of hypocritical morons?

Surprise!!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

20. It's religious discrimination against people who only want to kill gays, after all.

Why can't you people be more tolerant of deeply held religious belief?

:eyes: :sarcasm:

Yeah. More fucking inanity from the "pro-life" crowd. Every time I start to rethink my support for dragging the entire Vatican into international court on conspiracy charges around helping pedophiles escape law enforcement, they pull this shit.

:puke:

[springhill]

72. Anyone watch Deliver Us From Evil?

a documentary about the catholic church, and particularly about Father O'Grady, and the cover-up that went all the way to the top of the church hierarchy. Really, I don't know how anyone can still be a catholic after seeing this movie. It's all about the power.

[terrya]

25. This is just plain evil.

It's official...the Catholic Church hates gay and lesbian people. To the point where they're saying "we don't give a damn if you die because of your sexual orientation".

Hateful. Just pure hate against gay and lesbian people. They don't even try to hide it anymore.

[PeaceNikki]

27. I agree, Terry.

They're literally saying that the "sanctity of marriage" is more important that protecting lives.

It's awful.

[CatholicEdHead]

32. The "intrinsically disordered" language is really being taken too seriously

But that is what that language is meant to convey, to make someone less than human.

[PeaceNikki]

36. Yes, homosexuals are being treated as less than human by the Vatican.

It's sick.

[Zuiderelle]

29. I'm with you, Terry. This is absolutely appalling. I'm stunned.

I never thought the Catholic church would surprise me. Well, they have. Bastards.

[bluedawg12]

26. True, if we don't bury homosexuals alive, that will be the end of marriage.

That makes sense. :sarcasm:

[Toasterlad]

34. And Cue the Fucking Catholic Apologists In Three...Two...

[donco6]

44. Yeah, I'm waiting for that one, too.

<sound of knives being sharpened>

[anonymous171]

35. Hypocrites. As a Catholic this makes me furious.

[old mark]

38. As a former catholic, it makes me feel vindicated. nt

[Gemini Cat]

46. As a non-Catholic this depresses and scares me.

So much for human rights.

[Toucano]

39. What is this fantasy about "reverse discrimination against traditional heterosexual marriage"

What exactly would "reverse discrimination against traditional heterosexual marriage" look like?

What country or political entity would ever seek to discriminate against heterosexual marriage?

What a retarded red herring!

[CatholicEdHead]

40. That means that with each gay marriage, it is discrimination

against the heterosexual marriage. :crazy:

The "reverse discrimination" line is the current talking point going around on the extreme conservative Catholic radio (ir)Relevant Radio and others.

They are pulling out the victim card as it is hurting them by what others are doing. :crazy: Talk about a faux insecurity.

[Trillo]

47. Well, what do you EXPECT from a hive of pedophiles? n/t

[mdmc]

49. Is there a link where the Vatican voices support for the death

penalty?

[rug]

66. No.

[Fleshdancer]

54. sick

there are no words :grr:

[Eryemil]

55. Please, great goddess. If you exist show me a sign by sending a fucking meteor down on the Vatican!

[CatholicEdHead]

56. Kick

:kick:

[Chulanowa]

58. Boy, no right answer for the Church on this one

"Death penalty... gays... death penalty... gays... *Asplode!*"

[Forkboy]

59. I can feel God's love.

[Terran]

62. How is opposing this resolution any different, morally, from

advocating the death penalty for homosexuals? If you oppose an attempt to right a moral wrong, you are implicitly supporting that moral wrong. Saying nothing at all would have been morally slightly better on the Vatican's part.

It's actually the excuse given that's truly reprensible. Better that people be killed for being something they cannot help being than some countries feel pressured (in theory) to enact laws supporting same-sex marriage.

I've never been a Catholic Church-basher at DU, but this is outrageous and immoral.

[Kitty Herder]

65. That is sick!

How can they not be opposed to something so obviously evil?

They'd probably like to go back to burning gays at the stake if they could get away with it.

[gollygee]

69. They fight so hard for the "sanctity of life" in most cases

that is is pretty shocking and telling that they aren't fighting for it here. :(

[Downtown Hound]

71. Sick bastards. n/t