Folks here broke branches over our heads to get us to vote for Obama

[bigtree]

Those who had different choices in the primary found reason to support the nominee, most of us convinced by supporters that our concerns would be addressed, or, at the very least, that we would find the new president accessible and responsive. Not so for many folks here who assume that our votes were an endorsement of every plank of their campaign rhetoric. That's not only unreasonable, it's a dishonest promotion of Obama if that was supposed to be the bargain for our votes.

Others now want to define those who disagree with Pres. Obama outside of the party or outside the mainstream of opinion. That's typical politics, but this is our party as well. We deserve to have our opinions recognized as sincere as any in full support of everything he does in his transition and in his administration. I think some folks forgot that our responsibility to democracy, our government, and the issues we care about doesn't end with the vote we cast.

[pnwmom]

1. I'm not trying to define anyone as anything. But I don't understand people

already criticizing him when he hasn't spent a day in office.

[bigtree]

2. we have issues that we want represented

Others have that representation now, some issues do not have adequate representation in his administration, in my own view. Pushing for that representation from folks who will be close to his ear should be a no-brainer.

[Oregone]

6. Too bad, he is "pragmatic"...

And clearly when you control the executive branch and the legislative branch, a "pragmatic progressive" like Obama knows he can't possibly push liberal legislation through.....wait a minute.

[kid a]

10. and mccain / palin had your back, bro, i'm sure

[bigtree]

23. what does that have to do with anything?

I would never have considered voting republican, I never have.

The point is that there is an attitude by some folks here that if you dissent from what Obama is doing then you are somehow diminishing or discarding his presidency. That attitude doesn't square with any reasonable exercise of democracy which requires our participation and input if it is to be responsive to our needs. We shouldn't have to just roll over and take whatever comes down the pike. We have a perfect right and responsibility to advocate for the issues we believe in, Certainly Mr. Obama did not represent ALL views held by Democrats in his campaign. It's just natural to advocate that he recognize those positions now, whether it's just talking to a wall or not.

Casting this as accepting EVERYTHING his presidency offers or choosing a republican is not what supporters here were advocating during the campaign. It's just a convenience now to posture as if we should take everything from his presidency or support republicans as you suggest. I can't think of a more inane position to take than that.

[Chulanowa]

74. Then push for it

Bitching on DU will get you nowhere. Build your organization with like-minded folks and send some motherfucker to DC.

[meowomon]

20. Just let them bitch

It is their right!

[Alter Ego]

25. Yeah, I don't really get criticizing an administration that isn't an administration yet.

I'll give him the 100 days--then I'll start passing judgment. But I voted for the guy because I think he knows better than me--so I'm not going to Monday-morning quarterback his choices into oblivion.

[goclark]

68. Totally agree ~ January 20th is the first

day of this Administration.

There is one choice that would not be my choice but since Barack holds the puzzle pieces in his hand, there is no way that I could possibly know what to do.


I voted for him because I believed that he would be the best choice to lead us.

One huge factor for me is that every time I would try to second guess him, Bingo! He outsmarted me.

[noamnety]

76. Here's how it works:

1. You can't criticize him, he hasn't been in office yet.
2. You can't criticize him, he's only been in office a few months
3. You can't criticize him, it will effect our congressional elections
4. You can't criticize him, it will effect his reelection

Eventually, we catch on - we are never given permission to criticize.

[pnwmom]

83. Here's how it works:

People here are so used to being the opposition party that they still haven't figured out that we don't have to view every single action Obama takes with the distrust and suspicion with which we viewed Bush.

[noamnety]

88. I have a different view.

I think we were not, for example, critical enough of clinton's actions when he was in office.

There are a million Iraqis who died under his policies, and we all sat back, myself included, and said "Dayum, the economy is good (for middle class Americans), this is awesome." The short term effects kept us dumb and happy, while the workings of the world bank, agricultural subsidies, all sorts of things he supported led to the further destruction of the environment, abandonment of people in need of welfare, blinders in the face of what we veterans knew was widespread disabilities directly related to the gulf war, a refusal to deal with depleted uranium in our weapons, on and on and on. It was in many ways a disaster - but most of us here had comfortable lives during that time, so we didn't really care so much.

I'm not interested in having a repeat performance of that, and I am very concerned that Obama's appointments and his policy statements are consistent with neoliberalism.

[leftofthedial]

78. wake up. he's already working. he's named the most key members of his team.

he's laying out a clear trajectory for his administration.

you can lay around and jerk off for three months if you want, but stop criticizing those who care enough to speak out.

[pnwmom]

84. Wake up. No one is Obama's "brain" except for Obama.

This isn't like the Bush administration, with a puppet President led around by the nose. Obama is in charge of his Cabinet, not the other way around. And the appointees were chosen because Obama believes they will be effective in carrying out HIS policies.

[leftofthedial]

90. It's fine that we disagree.

My objection is the implication that we're all just supposed to shut up until he and his pack of lifelong champions of the status quo start work.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. It is the responsibility of citizens of a democracy to NOT trust politicians.

They, allegedly, work for us. If we allow them to do so and not require accountability we are to blame for their incompetency, criminality, and failures.

[Oregone]

5. Damn right

[TahitiNut]

32. The attitude of the Cheney/Bush regime to our 'concerns' was "Who cares what you think, traitor??"

Funny how we're hearing DUers spout that line these days, huh?


As far as I'm concerned, an administration that LISTENS and RESPONDS to the concerns and disagreements of the people is what I voted for.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

77. A sort of "My party, right or wrong" attitude that says "they know best".

An incredibly anti-democratic attitude that establishes a government made up of a House of Lords.

[pipi_k]

62. It is....

I agree 100% with that statement.

Even if we voted for the guy...we have to hold our government's feet to the fire, so to speak...keep 'em honest, no matter who they are. I don't think we face as much danger from outside "terrorists" as we do from a government that runs roughshod over the rights of its people.

So yeah...we have to keep them honest.



Although I do also believe in waiting to see how he intends to actually govern the country before criticizing anything he does...

:)

[Breeze54]

4. Well said! ~ "Democracy Is Not A Spectator Sport" ~

No one broke any branches over my head! I wouldn't vote for a republican ever anyway! But whomever the "others" are, have it all wrong. We are not "outside the mainstream of opinion". I agree, "this is our party as well"; but that doesn't mean we're all going to agree with Obama on everything.

Sheep may follow the lead with out questions but we aren't sheep.

[Gman]

7. Except for Obama's inexperience

I didn't see a dime's worth of difference between Hillary's and Obama's positions on everything. I thought Hillary could win and Obama could not. I supported Obama when Hillary lost and he won the GE after all. However, I'm very happy with Obama so far. In fact, he has exceeded every expectation I ever had of him.

[merh]

8. I have just two questions for you?

How many negative Obama threads have you posted in the last week?

How many positive Obama threads have you posted in the last week?

[bigtree]

24. I'm not here to be a cheerleader.

I came to this board to advocate against the occupation and Bush's unbridled militarism. If I spend the rest of my time here, for the rest of his term advocating for that it's really none of your business. Are you the new judge of what it means to be a Democrat? Are you supposing to dictate what I post here? What kind of bullshit are you selling? Are you really saying that there is some quota of 'positive' threads about Obama that I should be posting? What an idiotic notion.

[merh]

35. They were simple questions?

How many negative and how many positive?

I didn't ask for an explanation. I didn't ask you to defend yourself.

I asked two very simple questions.

No skin off my nose if you cannot answer the questions because you refuse to be honest with yourself.

[bigtree]

41. do a search and count them

All you want to do here is somehow define me outside of the party because of the dissents I've raised. It's sickening to see such insecure attempts at suppression.

By the way, my ire has been directed, mostly, toward Bush holdovers. It's interesting that you feel I need to be 'positive' about those.

[merh]

52. The count is for you.

I don't want to define you outside the party, I want you to see how others see you - as negative. There is nothing positive about your posts and all you do is complain and gripe. The same complaints over and over again, just framed differently as if trying to present something new.

I've not asked you to be positive about anything particular. I've only asked if you have been positive. The exercise has been for you. Guess you cannot even face your own demons yet to try to create them for others. Your weak effort at distorting my inquiries in an effort to try to smeare me is rather pathetic and it proves how twisted your thinking truly is.

[bigtree]

55. why single me out for this when there is a plethora of complaints here?

What are you really defending here? What is being hurt by this posture of mine?

[merh]

57. Because your complaints are constant and the same, framed

differently in an attempt to make them appear to be new and alarming.

I'm not defending a thing, I am only holding up a mirror to you.

Since you try to twist it back at me it would appear you don't like what you see.

[bigtree]

63. How dishonest you are about this board

I post here on many different subjects, but I've seen MANY posters obsessed with just one issue at a time (gays, Walmart, weight issues, etc) who haven't become the subject of your scorn. It's just my own dissents that you object to, apparently.

And, look. Don't think that I'm just some sitting target for you to kick around. If you don't want me to engage in personal criticisms of you then get the hell off of my back. I'm not going to lay down here for ANYONE who insists on attacking me personally, for my motives or anything else.

[merh]

67. Not only did you see something in the mirror you didn't like

seems as if I struck a nerve. You are now threatening me.

LOL, enjoy your negativity, is seems so useful and productive. Just look how happy it makes you.

[bigtree]

69. you came on this thread and attacked my character

I'm not laying down for that. Deal with it.

[merh]

70. I did not attack your character

I questioned your methods and your negativity.

Here go read - I think the author is speaking to you
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2008/12/obamas-cabinet-choices-are-shut-fuck-up.html

[bigtree]

72. read it yourself

What a pathetic attempt you've made to marginalize my efforts here. I can only hope that your own concerns that you express here are received with more magnanimity and respect than you've afforded mine.

[kid a]

9. if you needed a branch over your head, you weren't paying attention nt

[bigtree]

26. plenty of people supported someone else in the primary as I did

There was never any doubt whether I'd support the nominee, but you can't reasonably expect those of us who didn't initially support him to just bury the issues we care about, and that he differed on, indefinitely. At some point there has to be the realization by those who support every plank of his agenda that there will be sincere disagreements about his policy and intentions. Obama himself has said this.

Now that the election is over, there is a need for the president to recognize the concerns of those who voted for him, yet disagreed with positions he's taken or actions he takes. Especially those issues which are supported and advocated by members of his own party.

[gravity]

11. You aren't the only one who voted for him

[bigtree]

38. neither are you

ridiculous point, really

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Breeze54]

18. Where did the OP say anything about Obama? He's talking about people

with attitudes like yours, imho.

[bigtree]

28. Better than Bush was plenty to support him in the election.

That's just not enough of a standard to judge him as president. When you find an issue that you disagree with him on, you may well want to register that opposition here. I support you in that expression. It is an integral element of our democracy to register our dissent, even with our own party and president.

[Citizen Number 9]

56. Better than Fred?

D'ya really think Obama has done better than Fred Thompson would have?

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

79. "Look, assholes"? The election is definitely over. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

13. You are starting to sound like a broken record, but have at it......

cause the longer you do it, the more foolish you will eventually appear.

Look, a man who saw poverty first hand in Indonesia, is of minority status, helped organize the poor on the South Side of Chicago, attended Trinity Church for 20 years, married a Robinson originating out of South Carolina, attended Columbia and Harvard (two of the oldest established liberal universities in the United States), who has family living in huts in Africa, who not only represented some of the underserved as a Civil Rights Attorney but taught Constitutional law, ran project Vote out of Chicago to get Mosley-Braun Elected (first Black female Senator), chose to lives in Hide Park, represented the South Side of Chicago for 8 years in the State house, has never been a member of the DLC, and was adamantly against the Iraq war, is simply not a Centrist.

Meanwhile he has appointed to high ranking cabinet/advisory positions, 4 African-Americans, 7 women, one GLBT and a couple of Jews ...when he has only made about 15 appointments or so.

If he's got folks fooled, well that's mighty artful of him. Means he's playing a great game of political poker thus far....and will get far before being assaulted by the Corporate media (hopefully, he'll get his FCC pick in before they can strike any blows).

But to believe that this man is somehow not a progressive when he is still more than 45 days from taking office is simply absurd.

But keep it up...cause I'll enjoy watching you eat crow.

[Breeze54]

17. The OP is talking about you and those like you. Not about Obama n/t.

[FrenchieCat]

21. It's a bunch of negativity, regardless of who it is about.

Negativity is exhausting, and isn't doing jack shit but breeding more negativity.

[bigtree]

44. are you really so fragile that you wilt at the sight and sound of dissension?

really?

[hfojvt]

75. Frenchie seems to be spinning it, like others,

that we should be celebrating Obama's cabinet picks. Apparently because ethnicity and gender trump Rubinomics and hawkishness. But aren't some progressives upset about him picking Clinton? I think Gates may provide cover for leaving Iraq, but I haven't read Katrina's dissent from that either.

[riqster]

27. Fact-based posts are such a rarity hereabouts

...that I thought I should compliment you on yours. :hi:

[bigtree]

29. I've never called you 'foolish' because of what you've expressed here

Now you may experience a great deal of camaraderie here because you hold a majority view of unquestioning support for the new president. It's cute that you feel he can do no wrong. That's certainly your right. But you are doing no service to Obama or the party in coming onto every thread I post in dissent and chastising me just for expressing it. I think that attitude and effort is completely anti-democratic and counterproductive to progressive change, which this board is supposed to support and encourage. In your attempt to stifle that dissent you are no better than the opposition, no matter how loyal you think your actions are to our new president. I heard Obama clearly say that there would be folks who voted for him who would disagree with him. He's prepared to accept that criticism. You, obviously, are not.

[bigtree]

34. If Mr. Obama told voters during the primary campaign

. . . that he was going to assemble a cabinet dominated by centrists and moderates he may well not have won the primary election as a great deal of his support came from progressives who favored him over candidates who were presented as more moderate than him. It matters who has his ear, no matter how much faith you put into his own progressiveness. It matters who is formulating policy in these Cabinet positions. It matters who is formulating our exit plans from Iraq for him. It matters who is informing him of risks and military priorities. To pretend that he is going to be some one-man-show and these appointees are just potted plants doesn't square with reality or past experience.

As I've said before, if Pres. Obama succeeds in bringing about the change he's promised I'll celebrate that along with everyone else. But anyone who has followed presidential and congressional politics knows that NOTHING gets done without pressure from the public.

By the way, what's with the racial politics? Don't those folks you describe deserve to be judged on something other than their gender, race or ethnicity?

[timtom]

40. Allow me to jump in here arbitrarily.

I just want to remind everyone that Obama has, at least, invited us to be a part of his change team.

He is asking for input from all of us.

http://change.gov/page/s/yourstory

And, also at the very least, he has initiated an aggressive "throw the light on government" program.

That's something.

(And, I'm not an Obamabot. I'm very leery of all politicians just now.)

[bigtree]

43. Indeed, he has welcomed our criticisms

Some folks here, apparently, haven't gotten the message yet.

[Bluenorthwest]

36. What's a GLBT?

Are you saying he has appointed one person who is a gay man, a lesbian, a bi-sexual and a transgendered person all in one, or are you talking about a person who is one of those things? Hard to tell.
As I have said before, I listen to Barack Obama on Barack Obama, not to any self appointed Obamamonitor. I'm very sure you would be fully unaware of this, but Obama gave direct, clear, and to the point insturctions to the GLBT Community as to how he will be acting and as to what he expects from us. He has asked us to raise our voices, and move Congress and move his own hand. That is what MY President Elect asked of my community, and I will do that, no matter how it might upset others that Obama wants it that way.
I read the 'shut up and wait' posts as being intrinsically homophobic, as well as uttery out of touch with what Obama himself has asked for. I'll be following Obama's lead, thanks. Oh. And we all know Obama's bio, he is OUR President Elect, elected by us, and the man wrote books about his own life, so we got that first hand. I get all my Obama first hand, not filtered and diluted through the needs and personalities of non elected strangers. As I have for three solid decades of Democratic activity.

[Deja Q]

86. As person within the comunity, with the self-appointed designation/acronym "GLBT"

Sounds like you're being a troll (these accusations inevitably get said by everyone to everyone else, so what the heck.)

Why not come up with a better designation if the standard "GLBT" is so offensive? And then try not to get slammed as being ____phobic in the process too -- the most sincerest of luck, might I add...

[murielm99]

14. Okay.

How many threads like this do we need?

For example, I love my Senator, Dick Durbin. I would not vote for anyone else. But he wants to have Ryan's sentence commuted. I am horrified by this. I disagree vehemently.

Durbin is still a great Senator.

[Historic NY]

15. Give the man a chance he hasn't even taken office yet...Jeez Louise.

He is appointing people he thinks he can work with for a common good. He is not appointing people to please the masses. He is appointing people he believes will works their asses off for him. So kindly lets at least give him his 100 day honeymoon starting 1/20/09....that is all.:rant:

[Breeze54]

16. The OP is talking about folks like you... not about Obama, per say. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

19. I know exactly who the OP is talking about, and

my post stands....although it was really a response to #17,
which is your same post as this one.

It's all about who Obama is appointing in the end....and how
many here believe that who he appoints defines him, and they don't
much care for his choices, and some have a problem with those of us
urging to at least let him get sworn in.

That is all that the OP is about.

[bigtree]

39. If you can tell me what of any significance that dissent is hurting I might listen

But you haven't presented any proof that my criticism is hurting ANYTHING except maybe a few bruised egos from insecure supporters.

[bigtree]

49. Maybe he should have just kept all of the appointments to himself

. . .if he didn't intend to make some impact by announcing them. I suppose it's proper to you to cheerlead those appointments. It should also be proper to oppose them when we feel we must.

[rvablue]

22. No one had to break a branch over my head.....took me a couple of days to lick

my wounds and I was completely on board.

I wanted a Democrat in the White House.
And by the time Election Day rolled around I had become amazed and in awe in the abilities of our next president.

So, no broken branches at my feet and I'm as excited as all get-out at what the next few months...turning into years will mean after what we have been through.

[bigtree]

30. Well, I registered PLENTY of 'excitement' here about his election

What I'm talking about was the appeal to those who supported other candidates. Now that we've won, there is an attitude by some that the act of voting is some sort of endorsement of every plank of his agenda. That's unrealistic and the effort to stifle that dissent here, by some, is counterproductive to his presidency and to our democracy.

[mondo joe]

33. Well said. I was a Hillary supporter in the primary, but I voted Obama and I think he deserves

a little confidence that he's making the best decisions he can.

[bigtree]

37. No one has been able to tell me how he's being hurt by the discordent voices over his appointments

What has all of the dissent hurt? Tell me that. The way some folks are acting, you'd think it was affecting his incoming presidency in some negative way, otherwise, why all of the hysterics over dissension?

What, exactly, has it hurt?

[mondo joe]

42. Well, since I didn't say it has hurt anything I can't really defend it. But,

I do think that moving forward some party unity will be important.

But at this point, mostly I just think people are dumb for being upset about Obama being exactly who he promised to be.

[bigtree]

46. I think he postured as a progressive during the campaign and I appreciated that

Now I just want to hold him to that ideal. Politics isn't static. We all have the potential to make a difference in how we want our government to operate with our advocacy AND our dissent. Having our Democratic president in place is an advantage, but it's no guarantee that our concerns will be adequately addressed.

And, with the new president assuming a 'pragmatic' stance, it's imperative that discordant voices are allowed to be heard, especially if those voices are not the ones closest to his ear.

[mondo joe]

48. I think he's delivering as advertised. WTF did you expect?

Honestly.

He's a member of the Democratic Party.

He's national.

He's mainstream.

This was never going to be a social or political revolution.

[bigtree]

50. I expect for his administration to be responsive to discordant voices

. . . in his own party.

If there is to be a 'revolution' it will more likely come from discordant voices than appeasing ones.

[mondo joe]

51. Is revolution the goal then?

[bigtree]

59. It's not the focus of the Obama presidency, no.

But, that shouldn't dissuade those who feel that government isn't responding to the people as it should and who seek to transform it's direction, scope, and result by pushing and prodding.

Of course, a revolution in America that we should support should expect to transform government, not end it as many revolutions intend.

[mondo joe]

61. Do you feel supporting or encouraging a revolution is the purpose of DU?

[bigtree]

64. I think that each individual poster is free to decide that for themselves

What do you have against revolutionary change?

[mondo joe]

65. I'm sorry, but I'm not clear on your answer: Do YOU think encouraging or supporting

revolution is the purpose of DU?

[Hydra]

80. We sat through one of the biggest revolutions ever

In the last 8 years- the triumph of the right over everything that WAS right about America. A similar revolution will be needed just to bring us back to some sort of sane "center" point.

Quit spoiling for a fight with him- the fact that we are DEMOCRACTIC UNDERGROUND speaks to the point that what we are doing is at the very least a quiet revolution. The fact that we share the real news with each other is perhaps the most damaging thing we can do to the revolutionary right.

You want to stay where we are? Perpetual War, Domestic spying, Torture, Sell-off of the gov't, handouts for the rich, theocracy in the making? If so, continue to do what you are doing.

[mondo joe]

92. Were yu under the impression that supporting Obama meant

supporting a revolution?

He's quite mainstream, you know.

This may be part of DU figuring out what it is in a new political world with a Dem president.

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. Far fewer branches were required than were used. Overkill was the order of the day. n/t

[TexasObserver]

31. That part didn't happen.

I recall people saying "vote for the nominee or get out of the fucking party," but I don't recall anyone breaking any limbs or shattering any knee caps.

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. They said it long before there was a nominee. Wanna see the bruises? n/t

[TexasObserver]

54. No, Debbie Downer. I'll take your word for it.

[NJmaverick]

53. poor baby

:nopity:

[JohnnyLib2]

58. dup., self delete.

[JohnnyLib2]

60. Well said, though maybe a little early.

I think the crowd will follow in a few months, Bigtree.

Recommended.

[L0oniX]

66. This is thread nazi bait and there are plenty of them here.

Our party too? Hmmm that's debatable.

[bigtree]

71. I've chosen to organize and advocate behind the Democratic party all of my political life

Even as a child I supported the party, in all of its diversity, certain that my own views and intentions had the POTENTIAL to be recognized and advanced under the Democratic banner. I still feel that way, even more so as I've aged. I never expected to win every battle, but I don't expect (or will tolerate) my views to be defined as outside of the party either.

[crispini]

73. I will always remember the posters you did in 2004.

That was you, right? Believe me, that stuff was a GODSEND to those of us who live in a red state and had NO campaign literature to give out and so forth.

Anyway, I'm starting to think that this "we should criticize Obama / no we shouldn't" debate is rapidly turning into GD's version of "Fat Actress / chicken breading / Olive Garden / smoking / breastfeeding in public" type of thread. In other words, much heat is generated, but very little light, and it turns personal all-too-quickly. Although I'm guilty of posting one of these threads just now myself, I'm beginning to think it's time to remember the old internet maxim -- to increase signal-to-noise ratio, up the signal, not the noise. :hi:

[Hydra]

81. Actually the light is there...and the monster it revealed may be deadly

We'll just have to see...but I'm disturbed to find one of my predictions to be yet again, dead on.

[MiniMe]

82. Regardless of whether he was your choice, he is much, much better than McCain

And that's it in a nutshell. I support Obama, I trust him for now because he hasn't done anything to betray my trust, and I'm glad that he won. And yes, we will criticize him and we should when he does things we don't agree with. But let the guy get into office first.

While I don't like Gates, I don't think that keeping him is necessarily a bad decision. It is temporary, and Obama has already announced that. Perhaps they are waiting for Wes Clark to be eligible. I don't know what his plans are. But I'm willing to give him a chance to actually inaugurated before I start criticizing on how he runs the country when he hasn't even started yet.

And no matter what he does, it is head and shoulders above what McCain would do.

[EFerrari]

87. Better than McWar may be a good way to decide in the voting booth

but it's not a good reason to shut up for the next four years, let alone, when the incoming president is sending up trial balloons for his cabinet.

[MiniMe]

91. Not a reason to shut up

But Obama has the backbone to stand up to those he disagrees with and actually welcomes different points of view. But Obama listens and then he decides. We haven't had anybody like that for a long time. We are used to if you don't agree you're fired. I'm not ready to say that his cabinet picks reflect the way he will govern, I take it as he wants people with experience who know how to get things done.

[EFerrari]

94. It's nice to be able to think about the president without nausea

or cringing. :toast:

[Geek_Girl]

85. If you were a Hillary supporter in the primary, I would think you would be very happy with Obama

He's picked some major Clintonites including Hillary to be part of his administration. Not sure what the hell you would complain about IMHO.

If you were a Kucinich supporter then you may have good reason to be concerned.

[graywarrior]

89. Why do I click on these?

Damn.

[Jack Sprat]

93. Of course you're right.

Many of us carped over the 110th Congress in the spring and summer of 2007, when it became evident that many of the party were all talk and no intention. Everybody has a voice and there's no need to feel intimidated for taking a position on something.

If you knows it's unpopular, take my advice. Post it, then go away a couple of weeks. When you come back, you'll never know there wasn't 100% agreement with you.

[BigBearJohn]

95. Why do you care what people here think? Opinions are like assholes -- most of 'em stink.

No matter what you post here, there's always, ALWAYS going to be someone
who gets in your face. It's the nature of anonymous boards. The
Republicans don't own exclusive rights to having those we call "know-it-alls"....

So, go ahead. Discuss your opinions. I'll listen intently. There
are so many people here and on other boards who have deep deep emotions
attached to various subjects, not only with regards to Obama. You push
their button and you are going to get slammed to the ground. And there
will be others who admire your honesty.

Believe me, there are enough people here who will read your posts and
honestly try to understand your opinion without jumping down your throat.
Unfortunately, you won't always hear them jumping up to your defense.
It doesn't mean they aren't there -- it's probably because they are
putting their attention on more important matters.

In conclusion, I have to say I wish people here would get less personal
and argue their point of view using clever persuasion. Don't try to
intimidate other people into shutting up. CONVINCE them and move them
over to your point of view with an open ear, an intelligent argument, and
maintaining your cool.

That's what Obama does... rather well, I'd say.