I know a rich man.

[Mend]

This man is supremely rich, hundreds of millions of dollars rich. When he speaks about working people, he always says they are not worth their pay. He is referring to the little people: maids and gardeners and pool cleaners and taxi cab drivers. We are talking about people lucky to make at most and usually less than $15 an hour to work hard to clean up his messes. He also thinks the middle people make too much: dentists, mechanics, and the like. He always argues about the cost of a job and always looks for the cheapest estimate. He always argues about paying the bill when the job is completed. He always finds fault and looks for excuses to screw the workers out of their pay. In his estimate, no one except the rich, have any entitlement and his pay scale is reminiscent of slavery. He feels entitled to get goods and services without cost. He will live and die rich, and leave all his money to his kids who will also always be rich. He is a republic and a xian who goes to church weekly. But you knew that already.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Interesting tale. I was unimpressed with your hateful moral.

Do you know so few people that it is your belief that only church-going Christians can be selfish and hypocritical?

Your view of the world in black and white reminds me of the oaf we have as president.

[Mend]

14. no, I know that anyone can act this way but Christians are

specifically taught to act otherwise. I say it with irony, not hate.

[hfojvt]

46. Unfortunately, you can goto alot of churches

and rarely hear any teachings about wealth, except maybe once a year, around budget time there will be a stewardship sermon reminding everyone to give to the church. Not to the poor, mind you, but to the church.

[Buzz Clik]

51. So, really, your problem is with this individual.

Flawed and hypocritical people are dime-a-dozen and can be found in every religion or among those with no religion at all.

I wish you'd have phrased it differently.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. I took the moral differently

That a man professed to be a Christian and yet doesn't follow the teachings of Christ is sad. And there are quite a few of them around right now....

[Mend]

20. thank you, that is what I meant. I can only wonder what this

man is thinking about when he sits through church services and hears the word of God.

[Straight Shooter]

25. It depends upon the church.

There are many well-heeled people who go to church as a social network. It has nothing to do with God or Christ; it's all about connections and maintaining a proper appearance in their community.

There are also many well-heeled people who go to church to worship God.

By their fruits ...

[Ladyhawk]

35. The "Word of God" is full of contradictions.

He goes to a church tailored to his needs, a church that cherry-picks verses that, at the least, won't offend him and, at best, will exonerate him.

I grew up as a fundamentalist Christian, but dropped the religion about twenty years ago. I've spent the last twenty years trying to convince myself that not all fundamentalist Christians are untrustworthy. Guess what? I've decided you can't trust them, period. I've had a series of "last straw" incidents. Fundies put their faith ahead of all else and if you get in the way...well, too bad for you.

I'm trying to decide if moderate and liberal Christians are part of the problem, part of the solution or a combination of both. I just don't know. I do feel strongly that religious delusions are a cancer on the world and that if we don't outgrow them, we're all screwed. Since religion may be hard-wired into us, we may be destined for early extinction.

[Buzz Clik]

37. Sweeping generalizations will get you into trouble.

Your experience with a limited number of people tells you not to trust "fundies." My experience tells me that some fundies are untrustworthy, but not all of them. The same is true of Hindus, atheists, Jews, and Methodists.

I've never understood the need to pigeon-hole entire fractions of the population based on the behavior of a few.

[valerief]

42. Stop being so defensive about bad Christians. They exist, you know. nt

[LeftishBrit]

48. I didn't take it as an attack on church-going Christians..

but on hypocrites.

There are passages in the New Testament that make pretty much the same point: reference to Pharisees who parade their religion in public, but won't take trouble to help others; the rich man who was prepared to do anything to follow Jesus except the one important thing of selling his goods and giving the money to the poor.

I'm not religious, but I don't think religious people are selfish and greedy by nature, or that all selfish and greedy people are religious. But there are some people who like to parade how religious they are, but ignore everything in their religion that actually relates to their treatment of others, and that is very hypocritical, and there is too much of it in right-wingers of many countries. Not just Christians either - I can think of some Jews and Moslems who could fit the description.

[NMDemDist2]

2. was he born rich too? n/t

[Mend]

13. yes, he was born rich and married a woman of some wealth. eom

[SteppingRazor]

3. Sounds like that particular wealthy fellow is a real a-hole...

but conversely, I've known people with gobs and gobs of money that, believe it or not, are perfectly decent people -- some of them even vote Democrat.

Just putting out there that no one should draw from one anecdote the morality, ethics or hehavior of an entire social class.

[rockymountaindem]

4. I never understand how these people think others have too much

I mean, I can understand why someone on the left might say that the very wealthy have too much money, like that guy from Home Depot who just got canned for doing a terrible job and still got $200 million for his efforts. That's one thing. But these are the people who think that the free market justifies everything, therefore I just don't get why they think others are earning "too much". It kind of clashes with their own justifications for their wealth.

[havocmom]

7. If the rich man doesn't have it ALL, he feels others have too much

They are black holes

[hfojvt]

50. I can see where he has a point

I goto the doctor, wait 15 minutes after my appointment. An orderly takes my temperature and blood pressure. Doctor comes in talks little, pokes a little and is gone within 5 minutes. For that they get $120. Worse yet was the emergency room. Start with x-rays that I knew I did not need and did not want. Bill for that $500. Finally get a nitro pill and a glass of water. Final bill $800. That's a month's pay for me. Also, I walked into the ER, for urgent care, because last time that was cheaper than a doctor's visit. If there are no emergencies, they have doctors sitting around doing nothing, but they never tell you what something is going to cost before they do it.

Then there are workers. People who seem to think that they should be paid $15 to talk, smoke, or play around on-line. Do they always work hard for their money? No. There are alot of us who do as little as possible and expect to get paid as much as possible. As a supervisor it was like I had to fight to get my people to work, and then when I found them sitting around a told them to do something they would complain to my supervisor. Fifteen minute breaks become an hour. A group of four $17 an hour workers stand around complaining about their job while I, an $8.50 an hour temp continue to work. I suppose if my salary had been doubled and a bunch of benefits had been added that I would want to complain too.

I love the working class in general, but some of us who are part of the slacking class make all of us look bad.

[YOY]

5. Not all the rich are like this.

Neither are all Christians.
Although this guy sounds like a real Assmonkey.

[havocmom]

10. True, Some know there are win/win methods

They are few and far between though.

[Dora]

6. This blindness to the value of labor is non-partisan.

I worked for an avid Bush-hater a couple of years ago. This man was director of his department, master's degree from Oxford, JD from somewhere else, smart, erudite, etc....

He wanted to hire a band to play a party. My husband is a musician. So, my boss asks me - how much for your husband's band to come play?

I quoted him $300 for a jazz/blues trio to play three hours. His jaw dropped. "THAT MUCH???" I said - hey - it's $100 per man, for three hours, plus their load-in and take-down (which adds on a couple more hours).

I asked him - How much do you think their specialized labor is worth? Could you do it yourself for less?



He never asked me about hiring a band again.

[gratuitous]

8. He doesn't go to my church

Otherwise, our annual budget would crack the $50,000 mark, and we could do even more than we already do in our community and the wider world. Instead of sending just six people to Lucedale, Mississippi for a week, we could send down 15 for two or three weeks and fix a lot more houses.

Oh well; we'll keep doing what we can with what we've got.

[Irishonly]

12. Nor mine

:thumbsup:

[sinkingfeeling]

9. I'd ask him one question. "How much per hour do you think you're worth?" Just to

hear what he has to say. (Would be especially interesting if he is rich due to inheritance.)

[no_hypocrisy]

11. Personally, I have no problems with rich people.

OTOH, I have problems with rich people who have trouble being rich, insofar as their delusional attitudes of grandeur, power, and the right to perpetual power and privilege.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. I've heard it said by wait staff at restaurants

that they prefer to wait on working people because they leave bigger tips. They appreciate the hard work wait staff do. I sure do, and the wait staff at our favorite restaurant all know us by name and what we want to eat. We eat the cheaper items on the menu, but always leave a very generous tip.

I bet this really rich chap never had to work a lot in his life.

But don't think that all the wealthy folks are like this. Check out my tribute to David and Penny McCall:
http://www.geocities.com/ayeshahaqqiqa/heroes.html

[porphyrian]

16. I have more respect for his lowliest landscaper or housecleaner than for him.

Those workers either have way more patience than I do or this is a good enough deal for them to keep working for this piece of shit, because I'd have walked on his ass. I'd like to see his face when we roll back the wartime tax cuts he's been getting fat on at our expense. Hopefully, we'll do it retroactively.

[Mend]

18. need I add that his paying of taxes is also "iffy"....of course he

is all for the war. He does not care for brown people, black people, Jews, Muslims but since his kids won't be fighting and he won't exactly be paying for it (what with his tax evasions and all), it is good for the stock market and thus for him.

[porphyrian]

24. At least he's completely selfish. No points for half-assing it. - n/t

[Mend]

26. oh, you know him, too....he is a jerk, isn't he!

[porphyrian]

39. It's so embarrassing when people live the stereotype. - n/t

[Marr]

19. You think that's funny? I know an Ayn Rand fanatic who makes $12k/year.

He once told me, with a straight face, that wealth is an expression of intelligence, and poverty a symptom of inferiority.

I told him that I disagreed, and since I made eight times more money than he, my opinion was eight times more valid and his assertion was false. We both left very confused.

[bleedingheart]

33. bwahahahaha

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. He was, of course, 8 times more confuse than you. nt

[Rosemary2205]

21. I know a couple very wealthy people who are the opposite.

My own boss is in his 60's and built this multi-state business from nothing. I know he's worth millions upon millions now - perhaps billions if you throw in the real estate and equipment. I can't overstate how much he values his employees and people in general.

There's also another business we work with on a regular basic who is exceedingly wealthy who treats his employees similarly and has a basic philanthropic view of his wealth though he is generationally wealthy.

We have this idea that all uber wealthy people are evil. This just isn't any more true than saying all poor people are lazy.

[Mend]

22. one of my points was that he could easily afford to do as your

boss and never even notice the cost. He has so much money, it would be a drop in the ocean for him. He just won't do it. Being the slave master must have its rewards.

[Uben]

23. It's not the money, it's the person

HE is just an asshole. Some make their money by pinching every penny out of a dollar. Nothing wrong with that, but it puts some in a state of mind.....everyone wants my money!

To be honest, that in itself is not that far-fetched. The more you have, it seems the more people want it. Of course, who is going to get money from a pauper?

I am a blue-collar worker who inherited a lot of money. I still champion causes for the little guy, cause that's where my heart is. But, I know some who have earned their millions the hard way, and still feel the way I do. They are the ones who get my respect.

I was able to retire at 45, only a dream for the majority of Americans. While I do try to keep the government and others out of my pockets as much as possible, I choose to give to those causes I have a passion for. I donate my time and money to charitable ventures because I can.
I see others who aren't quite as fortunate as I give what they can... a few dollars, or some of their precious time or skills. Everything helps.

To be fair, because I don't know this guy, he might very well give generously to charity, but puts on the act to make himself look shrewd. I know some of those, too.

It's not really worth our time to criticize what others do, because we are judged for what we do ourselves. Give what you can, do what you can do to make the world a better place. And when your time comes, you can smile, knowing you did make a difference in someones life, somewhere. It may not be in written document, or even remembered by anyone, but it will stay in your heart forever.

[deaniac21]

27. Well written!!

[jakem]

29. Lets not give money a bad name...

remember... it is 'love of money' that roots eveil...

[Coyote_Bandit]

28. I also know a rich man

He grew up in utter poverty. He wore hand me down clothes. Often his parents could not afford to buy him shoes or underwear. Despite a learning disability he worked his way through college. He married a girl he met in school who came from a similar background. They both got jobs. He worked long and hard and they lived frugal lives. It became apparent that his work was becoming dangerous and that he could not advance where he was. He left his profession and partnered with another family member in business. They continued to work hard and to live frugal lives. They often hired workers who were otherwise unemployable. They treated them well. They were generous to folks they knew who were in need. Today this man is a multi-millionaire. He and his wife have a large circle of friends around the country. They call themselves Christian - but do not attend church regularly and have limited affiliation with organized religion. He still shops at thrift stores and garage sales and pawn shops for clothes and shoes and various housewares. He and his wife travel a couple of weeks a year and when they do they use their frequent flier miles and they usually eat two meals a day in their hotel room. His kids were raised to be frugal and independent. You would not know that any of them are well off financially. They live in modest homes. They shop at thrift stores. They get haircuts at the local beauty college. They have long supported Democratic candidates. Nobody drives an SUV. Nobody wears expensive clothes. Nobody has the latest electronics. Their attitudes and their lifestyle reflect their roots. They know from their own experience that money is not a measure of personal worth.

Neither wealth or faith or the lack thereof is a measure of one's humanity. But the context and manner in which wealth is acquired and faith is birthed can often provide some very good clues as to one's humanity and authenticity. It is what makes jail house conversions as suspect as inherited wealth.

[Balbus]

30. You know "a" man...

rich or poor has nothing to do with it. Take all his money away and he'd still be an asshole - but you already knew that.

[shadowknows69]

31. As a hard working taxi driver who is woefully underpaid

may I offer a hearty "Fuck you very much" for your rich friend's insight.

[Mend]

34. yes you may and add my "fuck you", too....it isn't that he is so rich,

it is that he devalues and diminishes the efforts of others. We are essentially all ants in his eyes. (nothing against ants)

[shadowknows69]

38. excellent point

I know some filthy rich people (by my standards anyway lol) and they are probably the most down to earth people I've ever met. Republicans I believe but more true conservatives than the current lot and truly not blind to Bush's folly. Never felt condescended to in any way.

[bleedingheart]

32. The man is a rich jerk and there are poor jerks too

there are loads of people like that person and some of them are even democrats.

I have met democrats who don't think teachers should be paid more than $20K a year and who are mad that their neighbor might have a better paying job.

People like that also like to profess their religious beliefs because they know they are jerks and they are just trying to wrap some type of cloak of decency around themselves whether they are christians, jews, muslims or even worshippers of the flying spaghetti monster...

What I have also found is that jerks who know they are jerks work really hard to promote a certain image of themselves in order to reap as much benefit as they can....so they donate to certain charities not because they want to...but because they can have a few people that they can call a friend when in reality no one thinks much of them because they are assholes...and they may know that but they just don't want to die alone.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Ok, So You Know An Asshole. Don't We All? Other Than That, Not Quite Sure Of The Point.

[Mend]

40. minimum wage is being discussed, the economy of the middle

class is tanking, and the Congress is now debating such things. My point is that we need government to help people out because religion and politics aren't doing much to change people like him. From the top down right now, there is a narcissistic sense of entitlement, a self-interest personality disorder, that just stinks. This man is real and actually worse than I have said. I am sick of people like this and I wanted to say that it wasn't okay with me.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. Thank You For The Explanation. It Was A Good One.

[demrabble]

41. The Scum of the Earth

People like the person you know are truly the scum of the earth.

They think their money entitles them to whatever they want.

I would love it if for just one week none of those working people your friend is so fond of screwing did anything for this piece of pond scum.

[valerief]

44. I'll bet this guy is a Republican U.S. Senator. nt

[npincus]

45. so, he's a prick.

[uncle ray]

49. he may have lots of money,

but he's a poor man.