Mailman fails to deliver, becomes local hero

[Lionel Mandrake]

Source: Los Angeles Times

Overwhelmed by piles of junk mail, 'Mailman Steve' quit bringing it to the people on his North Carolina route. Customers are grateful. The Direct Marketing Assn., however, is not amused.

"Mailman Steve" -- a pudgy, kindly 58-year-old who toiled along a route in a rapidly growing neighborhood here -- was given probation in federal court this week for squirreling away at least seven years' worth of undelivered junk mail, which he had stacked in his garage and buried in his yard.

It should come as no surprise that the U.S. Postal Service did not receive a single complaint from Padgett's customers about missing mail during the years he withheld pizza circulars, oil change discount notices and Chinese menus.

"That 'Mailman Steve' should get a commendation," Doug Kopp, one of hundreds of people who contacted local news media to praise Padgett, said in a call to the paper.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-junk-mail22-2008nov22,0,42692.story

---

Fuck the Direct Marketing Assholeation.

[Gman]

1. Oh... I was thinkin Karl Malone

screwing up in the playoffs.

[Agent William]

94. Haha, me too.

:beer:

:hi:

[all.of.me]

2. Newman? Is that you?! nt

[BrklynLiberal]

5. hahahahahahaahaha

[all.of.me]

38. What are you doing home, Newman?

It's raining! I don't work when it's raining.

Too funny......... :o

[jennied]

91. lol. "Because it never stops!"

[alfredo]

3. Bulk business mail subsidizes first class. Without it, first class

would cost a lot more.

[applejuice]

14. You beat me to it. Want stamp prices to go up? Eradicate bulk mailings

I know bulk mailings are not environmentally the best, but it usually seems to be that the same people who complain about the cost of a stamp complain about junk mail.

You can't have it both ways.

And by the way, I think that having a piece of mail hand delivered anyhwhere in the country for the cost of a stamp is a pretty god deal!

[alfredo]

20. I shred and recycle my mail.

[JohnnyCougar]

103. That's certainly not the same as having it not mailed in the first place.

Even if you recycle, it takes a lot of energy to recycle as opposed to not producing it in the first place.

[alfredo]

107. If you were a small business owner you might see BBM as vital to your

business. Sure it is wasteful, and they should use recycled paper when possible. We need to look at the environmental impact of what we do, but we also must make it possible for people to feed their families. A lot of people depend on that piece of junk mail, from the worker who plants the trees for paper production, through to the retailer who makes a sale based on the coupon sent by way of BBM.

A lot of tough choices have to be made. I hate junk mail too, but it might be the only way a retailer can reach his potential customers in these tight times.

[Lionel Mandrake]

24. I don't want it both ways.

I'd gladly pay more for a first class stamp, if either

1) The bulk mail would go away, or

2) Delivery of first class mail were more reliable.

As it is, I frequently get mail, including first class, that is addressed to someone else.

[jennied]

92. Me too. I would totally pay more for a stamp if junk mail could be stopped.

[JJ]

52. Eliminate the crap in my mailbox, and I'll pay $2.00 for First Class

After 1 move and 8 years, I still get junk mail addressed to my ex-wife almost daily.

[alfredo]

64. Leave a message for the carrier. If that doesn't work, start chewing your

way up the chain of command. Be nice and things will happen quicker. Some caveats below.


If it is first class, mark it "no longer at this address" A carrier won't know if not told. Make sure the carrier knows exactly who lives there, but make sure you look and see the class of mail. The mail carrier has to deliver the "or current resident" mail, even if they person has been gone decades. That's because the mailer had to pay extra for the classification.



John Jones
Or Current Resident
123 shit creek road
Nashboro Tn 37211

If you get your mail at the door, put the names of who lives at your resident in the box so the carrier can see it.

[smiley]

17. and also puts a strain on the environment

and creates a lot of undesired lumbering of our natural resources.... IMO

[alfredo]

19. That's the down side.

[w4rma]

30. Something else can subsidize first class, then. The Post Office doesn't have to pay for itself.(nt)

[alfredo]

83. Package delivery has helped. The post office doesn't receive any

federal money. Everything comes from postage.

[hobbit709]

42. It's the other way around

Junk/bulk mail rates are below cost. First class mail makes up the difference.

[quakerboy]

80. But the volume

makes it more worth while. If you already have to drive past every house in america every day, adding a letter to half of them may increase your gas for hauling slightly, but even at a lower per piece cost increases revenue.

Or thats what made sense in my head right now.

[alfredo]

89. When I was in, BBM made up forty percent of income, letters and parcels

the rest.

You're going to see more now that the economy is such that radio and TV advertising it out of the question.

[smiley]

57. so what?

at least for me, I might go through a book of stamps once every two months. I'm sure some use more stamps, but hey, everything else goes up with inflation. Why shouldn't stamps?

[quakerboy]

78. According to the article

Junk mail accounts for half the PO volume and 1/3 the income. With a first class stamp at .42, If we raised the stamps to compensate, that would be .63. But then, they could reduce by half the volume which would likely reduce costs somewhat. So, make it an even $.60 per stamp at a very conservative guess.

I would be ok with that.

[Occulus]

86. There's another angle to this, too, though

I just spent eight hours running whole trays of standard mail through a machine, and I can tell you this: standard mail ("junk" mail) is heavy when it comes to me in the trays- particularly that crap from Haband!, and other thick catalog-style "envelopes" (HAH!). Eventually, this translates into doctor's bills, which I will file as a worker's comp claim.

How much money in doctor bills would my employer save if we didn't have to lift by hand hundreds, or even thousands, of 40 pound trays a day?

I'd think that would save some cash as well. Lifting these trays will injure me eventually, and the treatment will be on the USPS dime; it's only a matter of time. In fact, I've already been through physical therapy once for exactly that reason.

[Lionel Mandrake]

97. Shame on the USPS

for making you lift so many trays.

The USPS should protect you from injury, even if nothing is done to reduce the volume of unwanted mail.

[WiMu]

4. How small business went under

because this man did not do his job and deliver the mail. We might think of it as junk mail, but to the person out there may be the only way he/she can get any advertisement for there business.

[MNBrewer]

10. It's their "right" to flood my mailbox with their ads?

[dysfunctional press]

23. yes it is.

as long as they pay the postage rate they are charged.

[MNBrewer]

28. SO, my having a mailbox gives implicit permission to receive any and all posted mail.

OK. Got it. I still throw it away without looking at it.

[dysfunctional press]

68. that's your perogative.

btw- if i'm not mistaken(and i may be), the actual mailbox is considered to be either federal or usps property- even though you buy it and it may be attached to your house- that way, if anybody tampers with it, it's considered a federal crime. technically, it's also against the law for anyone to put anything into a mailbox, except the postal delivery person.

[liberalhistorian]

51. Yes, and 99.99% of the time

it gets thrown away without even being looked at. Complete waste of paper/cardboard/resources, not to mention clogging up the landfills and, thus, the environment.

[MNBrewer]

58. Hmm... Can we put "Return to sender" on junk mail and have it returned to the sender?

If not, why not, other than USPS economics?

[dysfunctional press]

70. here's what i've done a few times-

save up a bunch of junk mail, stamp "return to sender" on each piece, and drop it in the corner mailbox.

i have no idea if it did any good or not.

[Lionel Mandrake]

98. If enough people did that,

maybe the USPS would modify its behavior.

Think of those blue boxes as Junk Mail Recycling Centers. :evilgrin:

[liberalhistorian]

111. It's not the USPS that's at fault,

it is required by law to deliver all mail. It is the members of the Direct Marketing Association and the junk mailers themselves that are at fault.

[greguganus]

106. What I do is save the junk mail and put it in the postage paid credit card application envelopes. nt

[dysfunctional press]

71. i use a lot of it to start fires in my fireplace.

nt

[hughee99]

81. I was just thinking that.

If you went online and signed up for every catalog, promotional piece of junk and put your name in for a whole bunch of snail mail (contests and shit like that), I wonder if you could heat a house for any significant amount of time. It would be worth it to get an extra large PO box if it saved you a few weeks worth of heating fuel.

[Occulus]

87. Actually, yes.

Yes, it is their right.

You, however, do not have to lift thousands of trays a day full of the stuff.

I do, and I'd like there to be at least a STANDARD on the composition, thickness, and weight of "standard" mail.

[kurt_cagle]

12. Bad Model

I cannot think of more than a couple of times in the last several decades that I have purchased something because I saw an ad for it in a flyer, or received a coupon in the mail. For the most part, for me and for most people, this crap goes in the mailslot directly into the recycle bin.

If direct mail were to go out of existence tomorrow, I really think that most people would be pleased, unless you happen to work for the DMA. There aren't enough swear words to descibe my feelings for these parasites.

[applejuice]

16. People who work for the post office would be pretty unhappy too.

Lots of jobs would be lost in the USPS and also stamp prices would go up.

Not saying it is ideal, but it is reality.

[riverdeep]

67. And cops would be out of work if there were no crime.

I'll take that tradeoff. We can find something else for them to do.

[Lorien]

21. No kidding. It's a huge waste of oxygen producing trees

I stand over my recycle bin when I go through the mail. I'd say that 80% of what comes to the house ends up in there. It's unsustainable and annoying as hell.

[BB1]

36. Here in Holland we have government issued stickers

you can put on your mailbox. they come in two flavours:
NO junkmail
YES local newspapers

or

NO junk
NO papers

Most of the people in my apartment block have one. Also there's one sticker that says: "Please no junk mail, we already have everything".

[Heddi]

37. Yes! I love those! Nee/Ja or Nee/Nee

I wish we had those in the US.

For the longest time, every time my husband and I visited holland we couldn't figure out what those meant. Then someone explained it to us. I think that's ingenious

[BB1]

39. You might be able to make them yourselve.

Put one on the mailbox and send an email to your local post-office explaining the how-and-what. Maybe the neighbours will catch up on it!

[Heddi]

40. I think the US mailman would laugh at me

and stuff more junk in my box just to "show me" :)

[Lionel Mandrake]

44. The US Postal "Service" has a policy

that the mail carrier has to follow. If a piece of junk mail has your address on it, it will be delivered regardless of any sign you put up.

[awoke_in_2003]

59. No way I am putting that on my mailbox...

last thing I need is some 3 headed 8 ft tall person knocking on my door requesting a shrubbery :)

[Tunkamerica]

93. i got it

if that makes you feel anybetter

[defendandprotect]

77. Hey ... Hello "Holland" ... wonderful idea --!!!

How long have you been here?

Good to have other than Americans here to give us a sense

of how we're looking to the rest of humanity --

Personally, I think we're looking pretty sick/insane to ourselves--!!

[BB1]

113. been around since 2002

but I signed up in 2006 I think.
You guys have a fascinating country run by the biggest crooks in history. Who wouldn't want to see Rome burn?

[defendandprotect]

82. Didn't WE used to have a PO option of "No Junk Mail: ....

Seem to remember you could fill out a form, or something--???

[smiley]

56. if they are a small business and can afford mailers.

Then they can also afford the internet to get their word out about their business. Besides it's very rare, at least for me to get something from a small business in my junk mail, unless it's from a restaurant. Mostly it's flyers/coupons from large retail stores advertising sales, or it's another invite for a credit card.

By the way I'm sick of phone books getting stacked at the front door of my apartment building every other month. Talk about a waste of paper!

[Metta]

6. Here, here. We should have to opt *in* to that crap.

Here's to Steve. :toast:

[Lionel Mandrake]

31. I'd settle for the ability to opt out.

But you can't even do that. You can ask the DMA tell its members to stop shitting in your mailbox, but not all the assholes belong to the DMA.

If a "shopper" (a loose pile of junk mail) doesn't have your address on it, and it's not accompanied by a post card with your address on it, then you can complain to the supervisor of your local PO. Otherwise, the junk will keep coming.

[riverdeep]

72. Most of my junk mail was coming from one or two sources.

So I focused on them. They had something like "Call this number to stop delivery" written on it. So I did. It didn't stop. So I called the paper's customer service dept. They said they'd stop it. It didn't. To make a long story short, eight months, several phone calls and three emails later, it stopped.

Nuts to go through all that effort? Probably. But it was a moral victory. And it's nice to go out to the box and just have what I want there.

[Supply Side Jesus]

7. Hey Steve, do your fucking job!

That's what you get paid for asshole.
Earn it.

If only I could pick and choose what I want to do at my job.

[Divine Discontent]

55. yeah yeah, they can call him a saint all they want... but it's his job

I did that very job - and I delivered the crap not only because it was my job, but because I know that if you don't have bulk mail, you pay over a buck for first class letters, and sadly - a lot of poor people cannot afford that.

[originalpckelly]

60. Of course, it's not like there's any other possible way of helping the poor pay for postage.

[Divine Discontent]

69. as the way things are right now in this country, there's not money for anything

but, health care for them is first. postage is way down the line, and thus, bulk mail. but I agree with the idea.

[riverdeep]

74. How many bill payments would you have to send

a month if you didn't have internet or be able to show up in person? Four? Five? Maybe add on a couple of letters for relatives or friends. So that's seven or eight dollars a month for postage. If you've got enough money to pay for lotto, you've got enough for postage, i.e. most have room to make up for it.

Or, the particular companies could start a voluntary pool to lower the postage for low income customers. Like they do for donations now for heat during the winter, "Would you like to give x amount to help?".

[Divine Discontent]

76. good idea! we'd have to know how much it would increase the stamp with today's financial situation

that the USPS is in. Still, a good idea.

[Occulus]

88. The irony is, he's actually doing MORE work.

He's filtering it out, rather than just delivering the whole bundle of mail to each address. That takes extra time and effort he wouldn't ordinarily put into the job.

[Glenda]

8. That man is wonderful!

I remember Kramer on Seinfeld wanting to opt out of mail altogether

[Number23]

9. Here's to Steve!

:toast:

May you be an inspiration to others in your profession....

[pacalo]

11. Wish they'd "punish" him with a reassignment to my area.

[izquierdista]

13. Buried in his yard??

Don't they have winter in North Carolina? He could have kept his house toasty warm feeding his furnace.

[Thickasabrick]

15. He's composting it that way. Yes we have winter here - but only

need fires maybe six weeks of the whole winter.

[Heddi]

18. Who the hell is he to decide what is Junk mail and what isn't?

While I am no fan of unwanted and unsolicited direct mail and other junk-mail, I really don't want my mail carrier to be the arbiter of what I should and shouldn't be getting in my mailbox.

There are many pieces of direct marketing from local companies that I really look forward to. One is a small grocery chain that sends out a postcard every month or two with a coupon or special on it. It's addressed to "Our Neighbor At....", but I don't consider it junk mail.

Same with ValPak and the bunches of supermarket Flyers we get weekly.

I wonder if everyone here would be cheering Mailman Steve the same if he decided that his customers didn't REALLY want those magazines they had been ordering, or what if those customers really didn't want those mailings from MoveOn.org or what-not.

My Mail carrier is paid to deliver my mail to me. If I do not like the amount of junk mail and direct mailings I get, then I can opt out (at least for credit card companies and their pre-approved offers). I can contact the business that is flooding my mailbox and tell them that I don't appreciate their mail. Or I can just suck it up and recycle the junk in one way or another.

However, I would never be "thankful" that my mail carrier is deciding what is and isn't in my best interest to receive, or to somehow inherently "know" what *I* think of as junk mail or unwanted mail.

As far as people not once registering a complaint---how can you complaint about something that you didn't know was being stolen from you?

[Realityhack]

22. +1 n/t

[4lbs]

25. I agree. I've actually used quite a few coupons in these "junk mail" flyers.

You know, those sales and specials from restaurants like El Pollo Loco, Pizza Hut, and Domino's Pizza.

Let's say you order a pizza from Pizza Hut and pay the full price of $13.99 because you didn't know about the coupons that gave you $4.00 off that were part of the "junk mail". You just got screwed out of $4.00 because some postal worker decided you shouldn't get said Pizza Hut flyer with those coupons.

Then there are the flyers/ads from my local pharmacies (CVS Pharmacy, Rite Aid, Longs Drugs). Those are technically "junk mail". Shouldn't they be delivered so I know what is on sale?

What about the various local grocery store flyers (VONS, Albertsons, organic wholesaler Henry's Markets)? Those are also "junk mail" and should be delivered.

A postal worker's duty is to make sure that the mail gets delivered to the proper address. That's it. There's no deciding on what is worth delivering and what isn't.

Businesses pay to have their ads delivered. If they aren't, then the USPS can be held liable for not delivering them as advertised, breach of contract, and could be made to reimburse the business(es) for postage, maybe even lost business punitive damages.

[Muttocracy]

32. yeah, if he had done it on behalf of customers who asked, that would be different

but I prefer taking the opting out into my own hands.

http://reduce.org !

[dixiegrrrrl]

53. ty for the link...good opt out info. in there.

[Disorientedx3]

75. I once got coupons to a video/porn store in my ValPak .. NT

[Shakespeare]

108. EXACTLY. What Heddi said.

:thumbsup:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

26. My dear Lionel Mandrake!

I'm with you on this one!

That junk mail is such a nuisance!

I would gladly pay more in postage for first class to get rid of this trash!

K&R

:patriot:

[Lionel Mandrake]

29. Thank you for the K&R.

Most people hate junk mail. A few seem to love it.

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone could choose whether to receive it?

[Child_Of_Isis]

27. Pudgy?..Geesh... how rude! eom

[salguine]

33. Obama should get this guy to head up the USPS.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

34. You got that right!

[RollWithIt]

35. What about all the small business people who were basically stolen from?

A good percentage of bulk mail is small business owners just trying to let people know they're open.

[Lionel Mandrake]

46. They are part of the problem. nt.

[originalpckelly]

61. "As my first act in business, I decided to annoy the fuck out of you...

Look forward to seeing you soon."

[RollWithIt]

63. If you're annoyed by a piece of mail with a coupon...

You have serious issues.

[crimsonblue]

41. He violated the law

He should be prosecuted.

[Lionel Mandrake]

47. Did you read the article?

He was prosecuted, found guilty, and sentenced.

[distantearlywarning]

43. I know someone who did this.

He ended up in prison for a few years. "Mailman Steve" is lucky he got off with probation.

That being said...GO MAILMAN STEVE!!!

[Pastiche423]

45. In my building there is a garage can next to the elevator

On Tuesdays, that sucker is over flowing w/junk mail. The contents are shredded and recycled.

Cutting down MORE tress is detrimental to our environment and our species.

[Bette Noir]

48. This reads like an "Onion" piece.

[happyslug]

49. Why don't peope RTS Junkmail?

If it is returned it is the senders problem, if the Post Office does not return it, it is the Post Office's problem. Now, Return to Sender (RTS) is part of First Class mail (As is mail forwarding), I believe RTS still works for Junk Mail so try it, if most people did it, Junk mail may disappear. Technically the Post Office says it will NOT return "Bulk Mail" but try it anyway.

http://www.obviously.com/junkmail/

[RollWithIt]

84. Coupons....

I own a small business. I do direct postcard mailing 4 times a year. A coupon is on the back of each one for 20% off two of my biggest sales items. If I lived in that mans district I would have mailed approximately $15,000 worth of postcards and seen a BACKYARD BURIAL FOR MY ENTIRE INVESTMENT. Incidentally, I'd be bankrupt and considering suicide.

[man4allcats]

50. Kudos to Mailman Steve!

I wish he was my mailman! :toast: :toast: :toast:

[Blue Diadem]

54. I wonder what the cost comparison is between newspaper ads vs direct marketing mailers.

I realize many people don't get a newspaper but direct mailing seems like such a waste of dollars and paper.

That said, it's been years since I've seen the coupon mailers we used to get. There were envelopes filled with coupons or an advertisement magazine with coupons. Who knows, maybe someone at our post office is doing the same thing as Mailman Steve.

[Lionel Mandrake]

100. I get some of the same crap in both places.

Fewer people read newspapers every year. Most of them are old farts (like me). But everybody gets mail.

From the advertiser's perspective, direct mail and newspapers reach different audiences.

[Historic NY]

62. I keep getting stuff for a dead uncle....I send it back with the

cemetery address & plot number.

[47of74]

90. I wonder how much junk mail the cemetery now gets...

I wonder how much junk mail the cemetery now gets from people who think he's at an apartment complex or retirement home.

My grandma's been dead almost 5 1/2 years now. My mom still gets mail addressed to grandma from time to time (she was the executor of grandma's estate and had the mail redirected to her).

[KakistocracyHater]

65. give it to the elderly to burn if they have a fireplace

minus the plastic windows on envelopes, post this at churches & other places too.

[RandomThoughts]

66. just for fun, no disrespect to anyone.

One of my favorite postal carrier. Just as irony, and for a laugh.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botdmsQilnU

:toast: <-- I always think of this icon as cheers :-)

[npk]

73. Fuck Mailman Steve

He didn't do this out of any sort of principal. He did this cause he is "lazy". Ok just kidding.

But seriously,

Some of us like coupons and pizza circulars. So yeah I stand by what I said Fuck Mailman Steve.

[deadmessengers]

79. Here's what this guy forgot.

When you do a job, you are expected to abide by your employer's rules while doing that job. Don't like it? Get the rules changed, however you can. Can't do that? Suck it up and do your job, or quit and do something else that suits you better. He may not have liked junk mail, but that's the breaks - he was still obligated to deliver it. I don't like dealing with that crap any more than anyone else here, but this guy NEEDED to be made an example of.

[waiting for hope]

85. That's not the whole story -

'Mailman Steve' said he also didn't have enough time to sort and deliver it all in the time allowed. Being under staffed was a big concern.

[Piewhacket]

95. He shoulda used them in his woodstove for heat. No evid. Hey!

[CreekDog]

96. How do I stop those damned coupon inserts that aren't addressed to me

but that get tangled up with my mail, fly all over the place and are a plain old nuisance.

keep your damned pizza coupons, KFC coupons, coupons for blinds, etc. i don't need that crap littering my mail multiple days per week. those are the sole reason someone has to check my mail while i'm away and there doesn't seem to be a thing i can do to stop them.

[Lionel Mandrake]

102. You have to fight to get rid of that shit.

The USPS rule is that if it's not addressed to you, it should be accompanied by a postcard that IS addressed to you. You can complain to the post office if there is no such postcard. Otherwise, the post card will identify the direct mail perpetrators. Some of them will take you off their sucker list if you ask them nicely.

[wake.up.america]

99. You can place a note by your mailbox stating:

"Please - No Fliers" or something to that effect

[marlakay]

101. I joined green dimes and have hardly any now

check out www.greendimes.com they take care of junk mail

[Heddi]

104. Again, I wonder why the responses would be different

if Mailman Steve were "Librarian Larry" who decided which books we should or shouldn't read, or if he were "Googling Gary Webmaster" who decided which websites we REALLY didn't want to visit. Maybe we would be as supportive if he were "Teacher Ted" who knew, deep down, that we had no interest in our children learning about evolution, or comprehensive sex ed.

Or what if Mailman Steve wasn't saving us from the abomination that is junk mail, but rather magazines or other mailings that went against his moral, ethical, religious, or political beliefs? What if Mailman Steve stopped delivering The Advocate? Or mailings from political candidates during election season? Would that be different? If so, how?

What Mailman Steve did was no different than any of those above situations. This is the second post I've made on this subject and it appalls me that so many on this thread are supportive of this jerk because he saved people from receiving JUNK MAIL. Seriously.

I do not want anyone--be it the government, or the guy down the street, or the mail-man, deciding what mail I get or don't get. One man's junk mail is another person's charity donation request.

I wonder if he will be forced to re-pay the companies whose mail he stole, and did not deliver, for the printing and mailing fees associated with his poor attempt at being a modern day Robin Hood of Postage?

[liberalhistorian]

112. Those are excellent points, and

you're correct. As annoying and frustrating as 99.999% of junk mail is (at least to me, I know there are those who disagree), there's no denying that he didn't have the right to make that determination on his own and that he needed to do his job.

[KG]

105. wtg, 'Mailman Steve'

direct action rocks!

[GoneOffShore]

109. Stop catalogs - go to this website

Catalogchoice.org

And he should have gotten a shredder.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

110. It's not that unusual. Mail carriers are regularly caught dumping junk mail.

And, they are usually fired. Normally, they are usually new employees who are under a lot of pressure to complete a route they are assigned to in an unreal amount of time. They face a Catch-22, if they don't perform up to very hard standards they get fired, if they dump the junk mail they get fired.

[earth mom]

114. This kind of crap makes the post office look bad which is not a good thing considering

the powers that be are looking for ways to privatize the post office and all those union jobs. :argh:

[Journeyman]

115. Next thing you know, "Steve the Postman" will be "Steve the Pharmacist" . . .

wonder how many on this board will praise his decision-making prerogatives then.

[Javaman]

116. Steve use a shredder next time. nt