I don't give a flying rats ass about how the top three auto makers got to DC. What I do know is

[IsItJustMe]

that the last of our manufacturing industry is about to leave the US of A.

This in my book is totally unacceptable. No one has even considered the psychological loss this will create in this country.

Our auto industry has been the pride of this country throughout my life time.

What is the new song going to be? Drove my Toyota to the levy but the levy was dry.

I don't know how they are going to get it done, but I pray they will.

[Justyce]

1. Agree, but the psychological effect is nothing compared to

the number of people who will lose their jobs, both directly and indirectly associated with the auto industry.

[IsItJustMe]

6. I absolutely know this for a fact. Why can't the damn fools figure this out. They are so intereste...

in dogging our auto makers for their past sins, and trying to put the last death kneel into our unions in this country, that they will do or say anything.

These folks sit in their ivory towers with their high minded ideas and philosophies (just like the neo-cons did with all these wars) and push this crap down our throats.

I don't even work in the auto industry and I am not union, but this does not mean that I can not understand the irreparable harm it would do to this country if the congress does not act and lend these people the money they need to get over this hump.

This is insanity at its worst.

[12string]

19. A Rethug Twofer

If they can destroy the U.A.W.they would be thrilled.I think they are ignorant and petty enough to see this as an opportunity to create such a catastrophic meltdown in the U.S. that they can effectively stop Obama from accomplishing his goals.This reminds me of that old saying,"Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."There would no longer be an America for the Repigs to "rescue".Fucking assholes.

[pampango]

23. I think the auto industry should get this loan for the reasons you stated regarding repercussions

in the economy. I do find it exasperating that executives can run an industry into the ground then come to us asking for a $25 billion dollar loan with the message that, if we don't give it to them, the damage to the economy will be much greater than that figure.

I agree that they should still get the loan, because in the real world you have to do things that you wish you didn't have to do, because the alternative is even worse. The economy will still be bad for quite a while. My guess is that they will burn through this money within a few months and be back for more next year, with the same implied threat that while the loan is painful the alternative is even worse.

[IsItJustMe]

25. Of course there needs to be restructuring and a change in their mission. But right now, they need

that loan. First things first.

[rucky]

2. This won't save them.

It'll just help fund their Chapter 11.

[Parche]

3. We cant give a bandaid to a massive wound tho

We need to understand, and figure out why, they got to this point

is it health care?

their factories out of date?

etc.....

i know Obama will help

[AlCzervik]

4. i hope the big 3 can turn it around, it's not like there isn't the talent to do it

and i don't mean executives, i mean designers and engineers.

[shaniqua6392]

5. This Michigander thanks you for your support.

Whatever happened to economic patriotism?? I have never driven a foreign car and I never will. The UAW and the Teamsters have been very good to our family and we will not desert them. We need to be loyal to "Made In The USA" by American workers!!

[Sal Minella]

7. I believe everybody on DU is all for the workers -- it's the Management that's causing the problems.

[Fireweed247]

15. and the management would just take the money in bonuses

and ship the companies overseas anyway.

And what happens when Target and Wallmart need a bailout...I can already hear it... "do you realize how many people will lose their jobs"

[IsItJustMe]

10. I whole heartedly agree with you. Hell. I remember years ago that I almost voted for a right wing n...

like Pat Buchanan just because, at the time, I loved his philosophy on made in America.

And as far as I am concerned, all this bull shit about how they got to DC, is just a bunch of "wag the dog" bull, that gives the pariah the excuse of not supporting our industry.

This same method of demonetization was used against Kerry in the 2004 election to make an Honorable veteran look like a coward.

And the sheep fall for it hook-line-and-sinker.

We need to pay attention to the substance of the matter at hand rather than the appearance.

Listen to the message, rather than the messenger. Look at the big picture, rather than getting stuck in the details. We need to be using a telescope rather than a microscope.

[unpossibles]

30. While I get the idea, I think it is also part of the problem

For one, the whole "Buy American" is important, but if that loyalty allows the Big Three to ignore what their competition is doing, then it backfires. I buy the best cars I can (afford), domestic or "foreign" and may I add that I have several friends happily employed at Toyota, so in this case a foreign product can still support American workers, just as some American car parts are made overseas.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. where were you when the other manufacturing industries left the USA?

why speak up now?

[IsItJustMe]

11. I have been speaking up all my life.

[TlalocW]

9. I care about how they got to DC

They're bragging about streamlining their companies (meaning laying off 51,000 people), and that a round trip from Detroit to DC and back again on a private jet is a year's salary (or more) for a guy working on the assembly line. Coach would have been $300.00. First class would have been under a thousand. How many trips a year do big three executives take on their fleets of private jets? What's that add up to? What's the cost for upkeep, maintenance, and storing those fleets a year?

One of them offered up the lame excuse about having to go back to Detroit on the same day for meetings. There are plenty of flights throughout the day from DC to Detroit. There's also these things called phones, conference calls, the internet, etc.

One of the reasons that businesses fail is because of stuff like this. If the people I've worked for who owned small businesses acted like this (at a much smaller scale of course), their companies would go under in no time flat with no bail-out for them. If the executives aren't willing to tighten their belts, give up their perks, and actually contribute to the well-being of the company then maybe the companies should fail.

TlalocW

[IsItJustMe]

12. Look at the big picture and don't get stuck in the details. Don't cut off your hand because you

a hang nail.

That is all I am saying.

[TlalocW]

16. I think I am

The CEOs apparently aren't willing to tighten their belts and cut out the wasteful spending they're doing and are going to continue to "streamline" by firing workers to affect their bottom line. They're not changing the behavior that got them to this point to begin with so if we give them the money now then a few years from now, they'll need another bailout, etc. If they're not going to change the things that got them where they are now, why should I, as a taxpayer, give them any money?

TlalocW

[foxer]

22. You think they came alone?

I would suspect they brought staff with, CFO, a couple VP's, Accountants, Secretaries.....

[nichomachus]

13. Can we -- just once

make a major decision in this country without a fucking gun to our heads.

Had to pass Patriot act or we were all gonna die

Had to approve the war or we were all gonna die

Had to bail out Wall Street or we were all gonna die

Have to bail out the auto companies or we're all gonna die

Turns out the first three were lies, didn't work or both.

Now, we're being asked by Lucy to kick the football again.

Let's bail out the auto industry -- after we kick out the corporate assholes who got the companies in that kind of trouble.

As I said with the bailout -- basically you're being asked to take the money you've saved for your retirement and give it to your idiot brother in law who lost everything in four successive multi-level marketing schemes and wants to get into another one.

On edit: I forgot the big one. Have to stop counting ballots and declare Bush the winner -- or we were all gonna die. That started all this shit.

[MarkP]

14. Wait til things get really bad...

I'm going to come and steal all of your shit!

We're not talknig about the local starbucks going out of business.

[nichomachus]

27. dupe

[nichomachus]

28. Why are you threatening me?

[Fireweed247]

17. exactly!

:applause:
Bullshit fear mongering to continue the looting...

[Beausoleil]

18. Well said! n/t

[davidthegnome]

26. Right on

Get rid of the corporate assholes and THEN bail these companies out. Otherwise we are not going to see improvement, with these "executives" remaining in charge. Rather, we'd be facing the same situation again in a few months. No, unless those responsible are actually going to be held responsible, this 25 billion bail out would only prolong the inevitable and drain the American tax payer.

[Strawman]

20. Thank you

[frustrated_lefty]

21. Manufacturing in the USA

will do fine, when it gets up to technological speed.

Ford is a parasite. I won't speak for the others, because Fords have been the only American cars I've driven. They run great.....for 4-5 years on the nose, at which point every damned thing breaks down. They're BUILT to break right after the warranty expires. You can wax on about the beauty of American motors, but I don't make enough to buy a new car every 5 years. Give me a good Toyota which will last.

The American auto industry has the technology to build a better car. My opinion? Screw 'em until they finally do it.

[Atman]

24. Yes, but we'll be a nation of the best damned burger flippers in the world!

One day, you too could rise to Chief Fry Cook!

.

[Romulox]

29. Sunbelt Republicans and Northeastern Democrats are teaming up to break the last great labor union.

Chris Dodd (and his paymasters) wants the UAW dead every bit as much as Jon Kyl.

[davidthegnome]

31. So, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain?

We're supposed to ignore (or overlook) the fact that these corporate executives are responsible for this mess in the first place? We're supposed to provide a bail out without any indication that these people will be replaced, or held accountable, or forced to change the manner in which they do business?

Don't get me wrong, I'd be all for the bail out if we had some solid ideas. But there's a big damn hole in the middle of the boat, and if we don't patch it first, bailing it out is pointless.

[Romulox]

32. $3 trillion to the financials--no curtain look required! NT

[Lance_Boyle]

33. emotional ploys are all the big three have left

*sniffle* How will this great nation EVER survive without Studebaker? Zenith?

What a load of crap.