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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:28 AM Original message |
Is entering into contracts a human right? |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:29 AM Response to Original message |
1. Entering into any contract you want isn't a human right |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:32 AM Response to Reply #1 |
4. How are you going to survive without contacts? |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:33 AM Response to Reply #4 |
5. We have contracts because they allow our society to function |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:34 AM Response to Reply #5 |
7. I asked a question, you failed to answer.. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:35 AM Response to Reply #7 |
8. I never suggested our society doesn't need contracts |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:37 AM Response to Reply #8 |
10. Once again you fail to answer. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:39 AM Response to Reply #10 |
12. I don't answer because it's a strawman argument |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:41 AM Response to Reply #12 |
14. How is it a strawman? |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:45 AM Response to Reply #14 |
19. It's a strawman because I never said we don't need contracts to survive |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:47 AM Original message |
Without a contract you cannot buy or sell anything.. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:48 AM Original message |
Again, that's because of how our society is set up |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:54 AM Response to Original message |
33. In your view, can government make any and all contracts illegal. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:57 AM Response to Reply #33 |
38. Not if the contract involves an underlying right |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:12 AM Response to Reply #38 |
49. In your view, then, the government can make any and all contracts illegal.. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:13 AM Response to Reply #49 |
50. No, and I never said that |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:16 AM Response to Reply #50 |
53. If something is not a right, the government can make it illegal? |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:28 AM Response to Reply #53 |
62. If it isn't a right and it's in the state's best interest |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:31 AM Response to Reply #62 |
64. Your right to free speech is not absolute either.. |
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obiwan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:42 PM Response to Reply #64 |
103. We live in a society that uses the Constitution as the basis for law. |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:43 AM Response to Reply #1 |
17. But as to lawful contracts |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:46 AM Response to Reply #17 |
20. Yes, if a contract is lawful then it is, but he's talking about something that is not legal |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:51 AM Response to Reply #20 |
27. Please show me where I mentioned polygamous marriage on this thread.. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:52 AM Response to Reply #27 |
29. That's what started the whole discussion |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:55 AM Response to Reply #29 |
36. But this is a different discussion.. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:58 AM Response to Reply #36 |
39. A lot of your questions involve strawman arguments n/t |
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obiwan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:44 PM Response to Reply #39 |
104. Agreed. Let's agree to disagree, |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:43 AM Response to Reply #1 |
18. that's not the point |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:47 AM Response to Reply #18 |
21. Yes that's excactly right |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:49 AM Response to Reply #18 |
23. I know that's not the question in the gay rights argument.. |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:57 AM Response to Reply #23 |
75. sure. In my opinion we should have the ability to enter into a contract |
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obiwan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:51 PM Response to Reply #75 |
107. The Declaration Of Independence is not our governing document. |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 05:28 PM Response to Reply #107 |
110. "The Declaration Of Independence is not our governing document." |
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ROakes1019 (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:55 AM Response to Reply #1 |
35. law school basics |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:59 AM Response to Reply #35 |
40. So the reason polygandrous marriage is not a right.. |
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malaise (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 05:17 PM Response to Reply #1 |
108. If there is a state or federal law prohibiting one group of people from |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:29 AM Response to Original message |
2. Not until you're 18 in the United States |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:42 AM Response to Reply #2 |
15. Other rights are also limited by age.. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:32 AM Response to Original message |
3. Also, that thead was about polygamy more than same-sex marriage n/t |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:33 AM Response to Original message |
6. You also need to be competent to sign a |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:36 AM Response to Original message |
9. Too vague. You can't legally enter a contract to do something illegal - like kill someone. NT |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:40 AM Response to Reply #9 |
13. So you think the government has the power to ban any and all citizens.. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:43 AM Response to Reply #13 |
16. It depends on what the contract is for |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:49 AM Response to Reply #13 |
25. Again, *contracts* is too vague. Some contracts can be legally prohibited, such |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:52 AM Response to Reply #25 |
30. So in your view, government can ban any and all contracts? |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:53 AM Response to Reply #30 |
32. No, it can ban some contracts. And the reasons must - in the US anyway - meet |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:54 AM Response to Reply #30 |
34. Not if the underlying issue involves a right |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:55 AM Response to Reply #34 |
37. Well said. Well said. NT |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:03 AM Response to Reply #34 |
42. Should government have the power to stop you from doing something.. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:07 AM Response to Reply #42 |
44. It depends on why the state feels it has an interest |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:14 AM Response to Reply #44 |
51. So any behavior that might harm society as a whole... |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:23 AM Response to Reply #51 |
58. Our government is there in part to protect society |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:27 AM Response to Reply #58 |
61. My wife used to get volunteer workers at her place of business.. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:31 AM Response to Reply #61 |
65. I volunteer at a few places. Why should that be illegal? |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:46 AM Response to Reply #65 |
70. Still waiting for that nailing jello to the wall smiley :) |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:51 AM Response to Reply #70 |
72. Personally |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:00 AM Response to Reply #72 |
77. That wasn't the case in this particular company.. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:32 AM Response to Reply #61 |
66. Yes, actually, to ensure protection of ordinary workers from corporations. |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:48 AM Response to Reply #66 |
71. Should corporations then not be allowed to engage in barter? |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:57 AM Response to Reply #71 |
76. Engaged with whom? |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:02 AM Response to Reply #76 |
78. Stock options? |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:04 AM Response to Reply #78 |
80. No problem there, personally. NT |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:05 AM Response to Reply #80 |
84. Ah, so your ban is not absolute.. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:11 AM Response to Reply #84 |
87. Because stock options is likely to have more value than a year's supply of Rice-a-roni. |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:04 AM Response to Reply #51 |
82. wrong |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:06 AM Response to Reply #82 |
85. Thanks, I didn't know that.. n/t |
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meegbear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:38 AM Response to Original message |
11. In a way it used to be ... |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:56 AM Response to Reply #11 |
74. I've lost money on more jobs than I really like to think about.. |
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GodlessBiker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:48 AM Response to Original message |
22. According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:49 AM Response to Reply #22 |
24. He isnt' talking about one specific contract involving something that is a right |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:50 AM Response to Reply #22 |
26. Does that imply the right to enter into contracts though? |
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GodlessBiker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:08 AM Response to Reply #26 |
46. I agree. And "property" can have a broad meaning. It doesn't say "real estate." |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:16 AM Response to Reply #46 |
54. Exactly.. n/t |
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GodlessBiker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:25 AM Response to Reply #54 |
60. Yet it remains a truism that one cannot contract to perform an illegal act. Or... |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:28 AM Response to Reply #60 |
63. I can write a contract for any job for any price I wish.... |
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GodlessBiker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:52 AM Response to Reply #63 |
73. It depends, I would think, if the intent were to avoid minimum wage laws. McDonald's cannot... |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:51 AM Response to Original message |
28. You must be a libertarian? |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:01 AM Response to Reply #28 |
41. Have you taken the Political Compass Quiz? |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:04 AM Response to Reply #41 |
43. I've taken it before |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:09 AM Response to Reply #43 |
47. I think the statistical average of DUers |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:09 AM Response to Reply #47 |
48. No idea. n/t |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:23 AM Response to Reply #48 |
59. I'm sure if it weren't, someone would have dropped by to tell us by now.. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:35 AM Response to Reply #59 |
67. The two aren't that far away from each other |
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prayin4rain (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:25 AM Response to Reply #41 |
88. I just took it and that is where I fell too... it might be a gimmick?? n/t |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 09:53 AM Response to Original message |
31. My uncle has Alzheimer's which is apparent if you talk to him long |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:08 AM Response to Reply #31 |
45. There is a right to refuse to enter into a contract also.,.. |
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shadowknows69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:16 AM Response to Original message |
52. Our society has legislated the concept into a human right in a way |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:19 AM Response to Reply #52 |
56. That's my point.. I think.. |
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Guaranteed (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:17 AM Response to Original message |
55. No- contracts are a human invention. |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:21 AM Response to Reply #55 |
57. God is a human invention... |
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shadowknows69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:36 AM Response to Reply #57 |
68. There may or may not be a God without our invention of it/him/her |
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shadowknows69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 10:41 AM Response to Reply #68 |
69. It's also why most theistic mythology is wrought with flawed heroes and deities |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:04 AM Response to Reply #69 |
81. Yep, if you start at the beginning, God doesn't seem like such a great guy.. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:03 AM Response to Original message |
79. I guess someone views a marriage as a business contract? |
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shadowknows69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:05 AM Response to Reply #79 |
83. The state does, it is a legal contract in today's society, whatever else it is too. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:12 PM Response to Reply #83 |
94. You get a license from the state to marry. It doesn't however, |
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yardwork (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:17 PM Response to Reply #94 |
96. Yes, it does. As soon as a person gets married - religious ceremony or not - the law kicks in. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:20 PM Response to Reply #96 |
98. Contracts have to be specific. Unless its a prenuptial agreement, |
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yardwork (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:24 PM Response to Reply #98 |
100. Exactly. Every state has their own set of statutes related to marriage. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:36 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. Yes, a contract granted by legal right. I was just being picky over the |
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yardwork (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:40 PM Response to Reply #101 |
102. Yes, a marriage contract is different from a business contract. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:45 PM Response to Reply #102 |
105. Yes and the problem arises when religious leaders try |
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yardwork (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:48 PM Response to Reply #105 |
106. That is the problem, in a nutshell. Some people believe that their religion should be the law. |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:10 AM Response to Reply #79 |
86. I guess someone doesn't get the point.. |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:52 AM Response to Reply #86 |
90. Except that you mention marriage in your opening line |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:06 PM Response to Reply #86 |
93. So what duties are owed by the prinicipals, what are the enforcement |
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yardwork (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:20 PM Response to Reply #93 |
97. The law in each state determines the thousands of legal obligations contained within marriage. |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 11:26 AM Response to Original message |
89. All people should have the same rights to enter contracts |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 12:08 PM Response to Original message |
91. I don't see how it can be... |
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Chan790 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 01:16 PM Response to Original message |
92. Not a human right, but a right implicit to the social contract. |
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yardwork (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:15 PM Response to Original message |
95. In any case, it's unconstitutional to deny a right to just one group of people. |
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quispismanna (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 04:23 PM Response to Original message |
99. I approach it from the standpoint of whether it is beneficial (and romantic) |
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rucky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-17-08 05:20 PM Response to Original message |
109. Then there should be no right to prevent people from entering contracts. |
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