There's no real reason we need to save GM.

[ContinentalOp]

I think these are the real priorities, in order:

#1: Protect the pensions of GM employees.
#2: Save the jobs of all GM employees and all other workers whose livelihood depends directly or indirectly on GM.
#3: Keep some kind of manufacturing going in the US.
a distant #4: Save the actual corporation and brand name of General Motors.

Now, maybe simply bailing out GM is the best way to accomplish those goals. Maybe it's the only way. But I think it's strange that the discussion is "should we bail out GM or not" rather than "what do we do to protect jobs and pensions?"

I'm worried that there's a real possibility that, as usual, we will bail out GM and points 1, 2, and 3 still won't be taken care of. Am I crazy? Do I have the priorities wrong? Is a GM bailout the only way to accomplish those goals? What do you think?

[Skittles]

1. no one protected my pension

so WHO exactly gets protection and who doesn't?

[ContinentalOp]

2. Well, I personally think everyone should.

Start by implementing single payer universal health care and every industry would save money. Personally, I don't have and never will have any sort of pension or retirement plan. My wife and I are relying solely on our now worthless IRAs. Still, many people are arguing that the failure of the big 3 would mean the next great depression and for me that brings to mind the image of elderly people homeless and starving out in the streets. Isn't that the whole reason that Social Security was started?

[TexasObserver]

4. That's a lousy attitude. You got screwed, so why shouldn't everyone?!

GM has workers who vote Democratic. They're part of our coalition. While bailing out GM may not be the perfect solution, it is a solution that keeps people working, and it's a starting point.

I don't know what happened to your pension, but grousing about attempts to save the pensions of others is downright mean and selfish.

[ContinentalOp]

6. Right, if that's not a priority then I don't really see the logic in a bailout.

If we give GM tons of cash but the workers lose their pensions, what's the point? We might as well spend that money directly on social programs instead.

[TexasObserver]

7. Democrats must better control this bailout with specific requirements.

1. Fire all the top people who got this company in the ditch, and sue them for bonuses received while the company was going under.

2. Invite Labor to use their pension funds to buy stock in the company, perhaps preferred stock with a set, guaranteed dividend each year.

3. Require cars that are more fuel efficient and better able to compete with foreign cars on size and function.

4. Make sure labor signs on board for the package, and agrees to hold wages stable for some period of time.

[Skittles]

9. that is NOT what I said

I asked, WHO GETS PROTECTED

[TexasObserver]

11. Well, if that's your story and you're sticking to it ....

Who gets protected? Who knows? That is the kind of detail that gets worked out by labor reps and congress critters.

[ret5hd]

13. didn't PBGC?

[Hannah Bell]

3. I think your priorities are perfect.

[TexasObserver]

5. GM can be saved, while purging it of culpable officers and altering it.

We should have requirements of GM in a number of areas, from compensation packages to gas mileage.

[ladjf]

15. I've got the "purging the culpable". It's the finding and hiring of their

replacements that concerns me. Who would be in charge of the hiring searches and interviews? Who would know enough about automobile engineering, manufacturing, distributing and sales?

[ellisD]

8. how much money could be saved

if they just stopped running those damn commercials every 5 minutes on practically every channel?

[dipsydoodle]

10. The alternative to bailing it out

is to nationalise it. If it really is worth saving its worth nationalising.

[dipsydoodle]

12. Cross ref to here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4477917

[summer borealis]

14. I'll give a shit about Detroit

...when they give a shit about my 1979 Dodge that lasted about 18 months. I bought it new.

[JVS]

18. You know, I've seen a lot of these types of posts and it gives me and idea.

We need an airing of grievances!

Everyone who has a beef with the big three deserves to be heard and recorded for posterity. As part of any possible bailout every employee from top to bottom of the organization will have to spend 2 hours after any shift worked watching the videos of complaining customers.

[emanymton]

16. Save Them. Break Them Up. Increase Competition

.

We are talking about saving companies by increasing government money into them. (Hold the criminals accountable at _ALL_ costs) But the solutions to this problem and those coming down the pike, are to take the companies over, break them up, and encourage competition between the resulting firms (original idea of breaking up ATT (Ma Bell)).

It can be done. No real reason not to do it.

.

[TheFarseer]

17. I do not like the idea of a bail out unless

there are alot of changes at GM. First they need to reduce pensions. Cut health benefits. Cut salaries. Reduce management pay. Everyone has to sacrifice equally. It won't do you much good to have a pension at GM when they are bankrupt. Then we get new hires and newer employees set up with a 401k instead of a pension. For anyone that lost their pension when the company went belly-up, I bet they wished they would have had a 401k instead. Then the government provides money to help auto manufacturers retool so they can start making hybrids, plugin-hybrids and other autos that will be competitive in a high gas price world.