Will Hillary be our 'Lacey Davenport" (Doonsebury Ref)?

[Taverner]

I was thinking about it - Clinton, like Davenport, is the wife of a famous pol. Davenport, if I remember, was a Republican, but one of the Lincoln Chafee-style Republicans. (In other words, one of the good guys (gals).)

She will be an elder stateswoman by the time 2016 rolls around. The kind who everyone, no matter which party, goes to for advice.

Perfect choice for President then, to carry on in Obama's direction.

And a perfect dear.

[no_hypocrisy]

1. I'm very supportive of Hillary, but honestly, she isn't Millicent Fenwick.

She should've been elected Senator from NJ in 1980, not Lautenberg and I like Lautenberg too.

[Taverner]

4. Ahhh true, but Trudeau has said Davenport wasn't Fenwick 100%

I think he took parts from her, but also softened her a little bit.

[Captain Hilts]

2. 68 is too old to start being prez. This was her chance. It's over. nt

[Taverner]

3. Reagan did it at an older age

He was in his 70's

Now no one is saying Reagan was the best man for the job, but I think Hillary will stay cogent longer than Ronnie did.

[Beacool]

5. Fine with me,

as long as she then becomes our Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi and current Latin Americans Michelle Bachelet and Cristina Fernandez Kirchner.

We claim to be so advanced as a nation and we still try to personally destroy female political candidates. It was done to Hillary and it was done to Sarah Palin. Sexism and misogyny are wrong and it deeply disappoints me to see how many women did not stand up and condemn it simply because neither woman was the candidate of their choice. We are more than half of the population of this country and we still have to fight against a sexist society.

Pretty depressing.......

:(

[curse of greyface]

6. Sarah Palin swallowed her own grenade.

You can't blame that on anti-women.

Blame it on anti-stupid.

[Beacool]

8. There were plenty of comments by the media and the blogs that were sexist.

I can't stand the woman's policies, but I can't consider myself a feminist and only stand up for women who I agree with when they are attacked on purely sexist terms.

Disagreeemnts on policy are fair game, comments about a candidate's looks are not.

[curse of greyface]

9. White trash is White Trash... It had nothing to do with looks.

Sorry the attacks on Palin were in general because of her intelligence, education, and views.

[Alter Ego]

13. Sarah Palin was horrible white trash and you cannot possibly disagree

on that point. Had the unthinkable happened November 4th, she'd have set feminism back a hundred years.

[Taverner]

7. Big difference: Palin is a wackjob grifter. Hillary is an Honorable Stateswoman

You can't compare the two - doing so would be like comparing John Wayne Gacy to John Wayne

[Beacool]

10. I'm not referring to their politics,

but to the continual assault on them as women. Such as derogatory remarks about their bodies, degree of "hotness" (or not), voice, laughter, cleavage, etc. There were enough pics and videos of Hillary's butt and Palin's legs to last a lifetime. I didn't see similar shots of the male candidates.

[Taverner]

20. well

Palin made a point to ensure pics of her butt and legs were all over the place. That was her doing. Not to say the media wasn't complicit.

As for hotness, well - there are those out there who are talking about it. From a physical standpoint, Palin is an attractive woman. To not address it is to be in denial. Granted, everything else about the person is pure, bitter tar.

As for Hillary - she wore business style pantsuits. Unflattering, but unassuming. That's the kind of candidate she is - very talented and (I am going out on a limb here) very humble.

I don't remember seeing pics of her butt, or legs...the one time she did show some cleavage, the RIGHT WING media went nuts. You and I don't have to agree on much to agree they're incredibly sexist.

[Beacool]

24. True..........

The RW acted as if they had never seen breasts before.

:7

[BooScout]

12. Misogyny is misogyny regardless of being crackers....

There is no excuse for sexist remarks against any woman. Same with racist remarks against anyone.

[Beacool]

14. Thank you,

that was my point. The progressive blogs deeply disappointed me during the primary with their vitriolic and sexist comments. I even saw some comments from some Neanderthals suggesting that Hillary should be raped to "teach her a lesson." Granted, such comments were usually removed immediately by the moderators, but that they would have been written in the first place was very depressing.

[Taverner]

18. If you are arguing that Obama ran a sexist campaign, then I encourage you to have a cup of reality

Trust me, the PUMAs have no idea what they are talking about

And criticizing Palin is not sexist.

Saying she spent way too much money on clothes and hairdressers is not sexist

Saying she is a Diva (look up the word - you'll be amazed) is not sexist

NOW I will admit the media was very sexist in their coverage of Hillary. Calling her genuine laughs 'cackles' is a sexist stroke. But there is no blame for the Obama campaign.

[Beacool]

25. I said the blogs, where in my message do I mention Obama?

They had their moments too, but were minor by comparison to the sexism of the media and on the blogs.

[Taverner]

30. Well some blogs were, and some blogs were predicting Sarah Palin would usher in the second coming

I take most blogs about as seriously as I would the chalkboard in the mensroom.

[Captain Hilts]

43. No one here said he ran a sexist campaign. We're talking about the media.

pay attention.

[Taverner]

16. Are you jumping on the "Diva is sexist" bandwagon?

If so, I really think you need to go back and understand feminist theory first.

[Captain Hilts]

38. A man deciding what should and shouldn't be offensive is just rich. nt

[BooScout]

42. What in the hell are you talking about?

I have no earthly idea what you are on about. I am talking about blatent sexist remarks leveled at Hillary Clinton, Palin and women in general by some people during this past campaign season. When I say sexist, I mean the 'c' word, 'b' word, references to tampons, being on the rag, women are too emotional to lead, etc. These are just a few of the sexist remarks I have seen across the net and elsewhere.

And sweetie.........I understand 'feminist theory'........I've been living it all my life.

[karynnj]

17. The process tries to kill EVERY candidate, not just women

I resent lumping HRC and Palin together Palin deserved much of what she got. When is the last time a candidate said they simply weren't going to answer debate questions? This was a candidate that simply recounting the truth destroyed.

I really do NOT think that HRC was hit harder than Dean(Is he too angry), Kerry (SBVT), Edwards (before he destroyed himself), Gore (exaggerates) etc They are all men, and they faced the same thing. The hardest thing they hit HRC on was Bosnia - but is calling her on saying she avoided sniper fire that didn't happen worse than people disputing sniper fire (when he saved Rassman) when it obviously happened?

I do NOT think you were racist to support HRC over Obama, don't imply that those of us who voted Obama over HRC were sexist. The fact is that prior to the election, she was well ahead of everyone - had there been sexism would that have happened.

[Taverner]

19. EXACTLY - lumping Clinton and Palin together makes me cringe

I am still a fan of Hillary, even though I voted Obama twice.

I wanted her as VP, and I want her as President in 2016. Why not a seasoned, intelligent, elder-statesWOMAN president?

But Palin? She's a piece of fucking work, and should NEVER be compared to Clinton.

[karynnj]

23. I'm not a Clinton fan, so I likely shouldn't say this

but to me it looked like that she was not one of the people - like Bill - who LOVED campaigning. I think the campaign was hard on her. I really don't see her running in 2016 - and more than I see Kerry running in 2016. There are on average less than 3 people born in any decade who will be President - there are likely at least 10 people in each decade who could have been excellent Presidents.

However, only time will tell. It will likely depend on whether she becomes a real leader in the Senate - or maybe an exceptional Governor of NY. Then MAYBE, if she wanted to go through the grueling process, who knows?

[Beacool]

26. I'm referring to sexist remarks, not to the media's usual trashing

of most candidates or to discussions about her policies.

Watch the first half of this video and you'll see what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcdnlNZg2iM&feature=related

[Taverner]

27. Well, surprise surprise Fox news made sexist remarks

I would expect nothing less
They are after all Hate TV

[Beacool]

28. MSNBC took the prize in that category.

They ALL made sexist remarks, but none like the pundits on MSNBC. That's why I will never watch that network again. I stopped watching it months ago and I don't miss it at all.

[Taverner]

29. I'm not sure, other than calling her laugh "cackling" what did KO say?

I mean, sure he lambasted her for her policy, and she deserved every helping. This election was all about the Economy, but the Primary was all Iraq. She voted for it - so she became the face of the DLC in this primary.

[Beacool]

31. Actually, Olbermann's 9 minute diatribe against Hillary

for something Gerry Ferraro had said is when I stopped watching them altogether. They were so in the tank for Obama that they lost all semblance of objectivity.

What did they say?

Tweety, the biggest sexist creep of the network, remarked the morning after her win in NH that the reason she was a senator and a presidential candidate was because Bill had "messed around". Tweety was forced to apologize.

Carlson stated on more than one occasion that he would cross his legs when he saw her on-screen because he feared for his manhood. He also gave Elle magazine an interview in which he said that Hillary was his secret fantasy.

Shuster accusing Hillary of pimping Chelsea brought him a 2 week suspension. Never mind that all the adult children of the male candidates had also campaigned for their fathers.

Olbermann also suggested once that someone should take her to the back of a barn and only one person should come out. Whatever he meant by that...

There were many other remarks of that nature, but these are the ones that come to my mind at the moment.

[Taverner]

32. well...

Tweety, the biggest sexist creep of the network, remarked the morning after her win in NH that the reason she was a senator and a presidential candidate was because Bill had "messed around". Tweety was forced to apologize.

Inane, but not inherently sexist

Carlson stated on more than one occasion that he would cross his legs when he saw her on-screen because he feared for his manhood. He also gave Elle magazine an interview in which he said that Hillary was his secret fantasy.

Tucker Carlson is afraid of women, what can I say? He's got mommy issues...

Shuster accusing Hillary of pimping Chelsea brought him a 2 week suspension. Never mind that all the adult children of the male candidates had also campaigned for their fathers.

Bad form, bad manners and again, inane - but not really sexist

Olbermann also suggested once that someone should take her to the back of a barn and only one person should come out. Whatever he meant by that...

Well yeah, that's pretty low - I will agree with you on that one. But the diatribe was all against her record and policy - two elements that needed some work

[Beacool]

34. You say potato, I say potatoe........

The point is that the media at large would chuckle and wink at each other in merriment at any callow comment about her that demeaned her as a person.

And where was our wonderful leadership? Mute. What was Dean's lame excuse after receiving hundreds of email complaints on this matter? He said that he wasn't aware of any sexism by the media because he didn't watch much cable TV. Funny though how he did notice any slight whiff of racism. Didn't he proclaim that bringing up Rev. Wright was race baiting? I guess that day he was watching TV.

:eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

37. Matthews' calling HRC "Madame DeFarge, Nurse Ratched, Lady MacBeth" isn't sexist?

He never called McCain Capt. Queeg.

[Beacool]

40. Oh yeah, I almost forgot about those nuggets of wisdom

from the jerk. Tweety and his tingling leg can got to hell as far as I'm concerned, he's an embarrassment. If he ever chooses to run for office in PA, I'll make it my personal mission to work my ass off for whoever runs against him.

[Captain Hilts]

35. Me too. MSNBC is like a frat party, only less enlightened.

The name-calling there and on the NYT from Rich, Dowd and Herbert - Herbert used the "vandalism of the White House" story this summer - was just unacceptable.

[Captain Hilts]

36. Barnicle said Hillary sounded "like your first wife in court" or something like that. nt

[karynnj]

44. The problem is that you are then defining the test in such a way that

the problem exists. The fact is that "HRC's tears" were treated POSITIVELY by much of the press. Olberman may be fun to watch, but he sometimes verges on being the left wing version of O'Reilly. Now, the most famous example of a man possibly tearing up on a campaign was Ed Muskie, the 1972 Democratic frontrunner. He was angry and speaking out about a smear on his wife. The reported tears KILLED his campaign. HRC's softened her image and showed her as more "human" - and raised her number. Here sexism hurt him, not her.

Also, I think the most sexist thing said in the entire campaign was when HRC said that the election of her would be change just because she was a woman. Now, that could only be true if a female thought process was functionally different than a man's. In the past it has been said that way and it was used as an excuse for woman not getting certain positions. HRC also went to Wellesley after the first Philly debate and spoke of the debate as the guys ganging up on the girl - when it was the normal all the other candidates ganging up on the front runner.

I agree that there were sexist things said - but there also many people who told me they wanted HRC because it might be the only chance that they fet to vote for a woman President. That itself is sexist.

[Orsino]

11. She can win my support in the Senate.

Her new found concern for working Americans needs a work-out. Show me a little progressivism, Senator Clinton, and you can be my president.

[Taverner]

21. It's there - she's a political animal so she will learn

Just like Edwards did

[Orsino]

33. Yeah. I think she will be a powerful force for good...

...when backed by a safe majority.

[Captain Hilts]

41. I think Clinton's and Edwards' learning curves are going in different directions. nt

[Captain Hilts]

39. Pssst. Her voting record is identical to Obama's. He told Canada he supported NAFTA.

And now he supports FISA and the overturn of the DC gun ban!

[arcadian]

15. New England style Republicans are the good guys?

Too bad they extinct. Wait, I mean good.

[Taverner]

22. No I'm referring more to the nonexistant character Lacey Davenport

Who was very progressive

Too bad she didn't exist

But Hillary does!

[mdmc]

45. Lacey wasn't married to a politician

I would love for there to be another Lacey