Spreading the shit around, or how everybody has some responsibility

[MadHound]

Well, it's already started, back biting, accusations, recriminations, scapegoating, on and on, all over the passage of Prop 8.

Looking at the numbers it's clear that everybody has some responsibility. Yes, African Americans voted for 8 in large, large numbers. But that figure is a percentile figure. Remember that whites, while opposing 8 by a bare one percent, those whites who voted for 8 actually did so in larger numbers than African Americans. Latino's voted for it, Asian Americans opposed it, and what the hell went down in San Francisco? Really now, a forty nine percent voter turn out? Hello!

The point is that there's plenty of blame to spread around to everyone, for every racial group, every demographic failed on this one, badly. So to continue this ceaseless round of charge and counter charge, scapegoating and backbiting is not just counterproductive, it is actually damaging the emerging coalition that promotes tolerance.

The reality of the matter is that yes, this vote was a huge blow to our GLBT brothers and sisters. However this also isn't the be all and end all of the struggle to achieve equality for all people. So rather than playing the blame game on this one, suck it up, realize that whatever group you self-identify with has some blame to shoulder, and then go out and work like hell to make equality a reality. This blame game simply falls into the old divide and conquer trap, and we can't afford that right now.

So rather than dwelling on the past, dwelling on placing the blame, dwelling on what might have been and what could have been, look at the reality of what IS right now, and then start fighting like hell to change it. Otherwise this blame game will simply chew us up, spit us out, and set progress back by years. This election is over, let's start thinking ahead to the next round.

[Captain Hilts]

1. 53% of whites/Latinos voted 'for' 70% blacks voted 'for'. BIG difference.

Bigotry and sexism are still out there.

[MadHound]

6. And whites only went against 8 by one percentage point

Gee, with their numerical advantage, I would think that a swing of a few more points would have closed the deal. Meanwhile only 49.9% of San Francisco voters turned out for the election. I would think that if those numbers had matched the national average, 70-80 % turnout, 8 would have been defeated.

And on and on and on this merry go round can go, if you choose to let it. Meanwhile, all this scapegoating and blame game is simply dividing a coalition that needs to remain united.

Yes, bigotry and sexism are still out there. Instead of playing the blame game and scapegoating people, go out and do something constructive so that we as a country don't have to stay in this place.

[patrice]

2. Can you recommend a link where I can get the actual wording of prop 8, please?

I need to study up on this.

[Crazy Dave]

3. The "Bradley Effect" affected this one

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20081106/us_time/whygaymarriagewasdefeatedincalifornia

[SheilaT]

4. I really dislike this sort of collective blame.

I don't live in California. If id did, I would have voted yes. Saying everyone has some responsibility is, in my opinion, a real slap in the face to those who worked and voted for GLUT rights, as well as those of us who live far away from anywhere any such initiative was on the ballot.

It's like -- which I've heard all too often -- that we deserved Bush if because we were dumb enough to elect him. Well, I didn't vote for him either time, and so I bear absolutely no responsibility for his eight years.

No, put the blame where it belongs: on ignorance and bigotry on the part of the individuals who voted for Prop 8. Blame the community or religious leaders who hold such ignorant and bigoted beliefs and urge their followers to be equally ignorant and bigoted.

[MadHound]

7. But the fact of the matter is that everybody does have some responsibility in this one

I'm not saying that Californians deserve this, rather quite the reverse. But the fact of the matter is that all demographic groups failed on this one. I mean really now, less than a fifty percent voter turnout in San Fran?

Yes, ignorance and bigotry is to blame, across the board. But rather than putting the blame on this group or that group, do something constructive to work for change rather than simply finding some group to blame.

[SheilaT]

10. Nope. If I didn't vote for that proposition

I am not responsible. Just as I'm not responsible for the last almost seven years of Bush. I did not vote for him. Twice I did not vote for him. SO DON'T BLAME ME. There is only so much I can do. Besides, I don't live in California, so I'm not responsible for their ballot initiatives, nor for how the bigots there vote.

[jonnyblitz]

5. people who want to ignore the high incidence of homophobia

in minorities due to white guilt or whatever psychological reason are REALLY starting to piss me off. since this discussion started last night I have noticed that it was several of our African American DUers who have thought this worthy of pointing out and discussing and the WHITE Duers who want to shut the discussion down and change the subject or blame only religion. THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED no matter how uncomfortable it makes many of you. NOBODY IS BLAMING EVERYONE IN ANY GROUP. jesus. :eyes:

[MadHound]

8. I'm not saying ignore the numbers

What I'm saying is stop trying to dump all over this group or that group, and instead leave this behind and start working for the future. All that this sort of blame game can do is alienate people. Every single demographic group has fault in how this turned out. Rather than pointing fingers, go out and do something constructive to bring about change for the better.

[silex]

9. Hopefully cooler heads will reorganize and address

I think they were going to court to counter so I don't know what's going to happen there. How did it began to form? If it was a grass-root effort that started,if so, then why not began to combat it the same way from the grass root.