Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I keep getting this in my e-mail, is it true?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:09 PM
Original message
I keep getting this in my e-mail, is it true?
A 'Big Cat' With Nothing to Lose


Leaving Hussein no hope will trigger his worst weapons, U.S. envoy in historic '90 meeting warns

By Joseph C. Wilson


LA Times Op-Ed
February 6 2003

Saddam Hussein is a murderous sociopath whose departure from this Earth would be welcomed everywhere.

I met with Hussein for the last time in a heavily curtained room in the Foreign Ministry late in the morning of Aug. 6, 1990, four days after his invasion of Kuwait. As the senior diplomat in charge of the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad at the time, it was my responsibility to tell him to get out of Kuwait and to let the several thousand Americans, including 150 so-called "human shields," leave the region.

I knew from previous meetings that he always stacked the deck to give himself every advantage, and this session was no different.

I was accompanied by a single embassy note taker, while Hussein had eight senior foreign policy officials with him. But only Tarik Aziz, then the foreign minister, dared speak in his presence. The others were as silent as furniture.

Hussein joined me in the middle of the room with the Iraqi news cameras whirring. Typically, when it came time to shake hands, he deliberately held his low so that to take it I would have to lean over. The cameras would then capture for posterity that his visitor had bowed to the potentate. I kept my back straight.

Later in the meeting, when he turned to others in the room to elicit a reaction, the discomfort was palpable. At one point, he made a move to his ever-present gun. My immediate thought was that I had said the wrong thing. To my relief he took it off, telling me that it hurt his back when he sat. I looked at his people, who were also on edge, watching his every move. He reminded me of a big cat at a watering hole, with the zebra and antelope wondering whether he is there to drink or to eat.

During our session -- the last he had with any American official before the war -- I listened as he offered his deal through a translator: In exchange for keeping Kuwait, he would give the U.S. oil at a good price and would not invade Saudi Arabia. In a matter-of-fact manner, he dismissed the Kuwaiti government as "history" and scoffed at President Bush's condemnation of him.

He mocked American will and courage, telling me that my country would run rather than face the prospect of spilling the blood of our soldiers in the Arabian Desert.

I was never prouder than when the American response was to confront Hussein and ultimately force him from Kuwait.

Desert Storm was a just war, sanctioned by the international community and supported by a broad multilateral coalition. Today we are on the verge of another conflict with Iraq, but unlike Desert Storm, the goals are not clear -- despite Secretary of State Colin Powell's eloquent argument for war in his address Wednesday to the United Nations Security Council.

Is it a war to liberate the people of Iraq, oppressed all these years? Is it a battle in the war on terrorism? Or is it, as President Bush often says, all about disarmament?

Clarity matters, because our goals will determine how Hussein reacts.

By all indications, Hussein is clear in his own mind about our intentions: He believes we are going to war to kill him, whether he disarms or not.

This is a major problem for us. My judgment was -- and is -- that only power will make him yield, but there also has to be some incentive for him to comply.

During the Gulf War, we were always acutely aware of the need to be confrontational on the issues at hand but to leave Hussein, a proud and vain man, a way to save face.

When he released the women and children hostages, Hussein initially threatened to keep dual Kuwaiti-American citizens. I told his underling that unless all Americans were put on the evacuation flight within half an hour, I would inform the American TV networks that Hussein had again reneged on his promises and was toying with the lives of children.

Hussein relented, and our official statements acknowledged Iraqi cooperation.

There is now no incentive for Hussein to comply with the inspectors or to refrain from using weapons of mass destruction to defend himself if the United States comes after him.

And he will use them; we should be under no illusion about that.

Hussein and Aziz both told me directly that Iraq reserved the right to use every weapon in its arsenal if invaded, just as it had against Iran and later the Kurds.

The fact that thousands of men, women and children had died in these attacks fazed them not one bit. In fact, Aziz could barely be bothered to stop puffing on his Cuban cigar as he made these comments, of so little importance was the use of chemicals to kill people.

It is probably too late to change Hussein's assessment, and that will make any ensuing battle for Iraq that much more dangerous for our troops and for the Iraqis who find themselves in the battlefield.

The assertion that Hussein might share weapons of mass destruction with a terrorist group, however, is counterintuitive to everything I and others know about him. The Iraqi leader is above all a consummate survivalist.

He acts as if he expects the people around him to die for him, but he has long known that every terrorist act, and particularly a sophisticated one, raises the question of his involvement and invites blame. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose. In his mind he is Iraq, Iraq is Hussein, and as long as he survives, Iraq survives.

After then-Secretary of State Jim Baker made it clear to Aziz on the eve of the Gulf War that the United States would destroy Iraq if weapons of mass destruction were used, Hussein did not use them. He is not stupid, and for him living is better than dying in vain.

Now, however, if he feels his death is inevitable, he may well arm extremist groups in an attempt to have a last, posthumous laugh.

Along with our drive toward war, it should also be made clear to Hussein that -- in the little time remaining -- he still has a choice.

We should do everything possible to avoid the understandable temptation to send American troops to fight a war of "liberation" that can be waged only by the Iraqis themselves. The projection of power need not equate with the projection of force

Joseph C. Wilson, chief of mission at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad from 1988 to 1991 and acting ambassador during Operation Desert Shield, is an adjunct scholar at the Middle East Institute in Washington.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. You can always block the sender
:)

I don't think Mr. Wilson wrote an Op Ed for the LA Times in February of 2003
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I get stuff from my old army buddies
Like this all the time. Usually I just send them to snopes or something, I just couldn't find anything on this one so I thought I'd ask.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I went to snopes first, too. You can tell him it's a hoax.
Nothing about it in The LA Times.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I feel sorry for people targeted with this - the creators believe the recipients are stupid
and have been deemed gullible and willing to repeat and spread their lies for them.

It's really very insulting to the targeted audience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Computer says NOooooo...
Edited on Sat Mar-17-07 04:25 PM by IanDB1
L.A. Times Archives

Search Results
Search Saved Saved Saved Help

Start a New Search | Save this Search | Search 12/4/1881 - 12/31/1984
Between: 02/01/2006 and 02/07/2006 Author: Joseph C. Wilson
Satisfaction guaranteed! If you're not completely satisfied with your purchase, visit myPQA.
Content is for personal, non-commercial use only and is protected by copyright law. The user may not distribute, transmit, market, sell, or provide this content to any third party.
Preview (Abstract/Citation) Preview Full Text (No Photos) Text (no photos) Buy Page PrintPage Print Not AvailableNot Available
Note: Only some document formats may be available

No Articles Found
No articles were found for the search you submitted. Please try one of the following suggestions:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=&type=current&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=6&frommonth=02&fromday=01&fromyear=2006&tomonth=02&today=07&toyear=2006&By=Joseph+C.+Wilson&Title=&at=ALL&Sect=ALL&x=39&y=16



Also tried these searches:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=&x=0&y=0&type=current&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=6&frommonth=02&fromday=06&fromyear=2006&tomonth=02&today=06&toyear=2006&By=&Title=big+cat&at=ALL&Sect=ALL
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=&x=0&y=0&type=current&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=6&frommonth=02&fromday=06&fromyear=2006&tomonth=02&today=06&toyear=2006&By=joseph+wilson&Title=&at=ALL&Sect=ALL
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=&x=0&y=0&type=current&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=6&frommonth=02&fromday=06&fromyear=2006&tomonth=02&today=06&toyear=2006&By=&Title=saddam&at=ALL&Sect=ALL



This was posted on a handful of blogs, but none with a link to the alleged LA Times article.

When And Where Joseph Wilson Changed His Story | Sweetness & Light
Leaving Hussein no hope will trigger his worst weapons, U.S. envoy in historic ‘90 meeting warns. By Joseph C. Wilson February 6 2003 ...
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/when-and-where-joe-wilson-changed-his-story

Iraq News Extracts - Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq
A 'Big Cat' With Nothing to Lose: Leaving Hussein no hope will trigger his worst weapons, U.S. envoy in historic '90 meeting warns ...
www.casi.org.uk/info/iraqnews.html - 754k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this


The Politics Of Truth: Inside the Lies That Led to War and ... - Google Books Result
2005 - 516 pages
Los Angeles Times, February 6,2003 A 'BIG CAT9 WITH NOTHING TO LOSE Leaving Hussein no hope will trigger his worst weapons, US envoy in historic '90 meeting ...
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/iraqnews.html

books.google.com/books?isbn=0786715510... - Mar 16, 2007 - Note this
Bush lied, people died. - Page 12 - Leftfield.org
Leaving Hussein no hope will trigger his worst weapons, US envoy in historic '90 meeting warns By Joseph C. Wilson LA Times Op-Ed February 6 2003 ...
http://www.leftfield.org/Forums/showthread.php?t=8085&page=12
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. it is in the archives at LA Times

L.A. Times Archives

Search Results
Search Saved Saved Saved Help

Start a New Search | Save this Search | Search 12/4/1881 - 12/31/1984
Search: "A 'Big Cat' With Nothing to Lose"
Satisfaction guaranteed! If you're not completely satisfied with your purchase, visit myPQA.
Content is for personal, non-commercial use only and is protected by copyright law. The user may not distribute, transmit, market, sell, or provide this content to any third party.
Preview (Abstract/Citation) Preview Full Text (No Photos) Text (no photos) Buy Page PrintPage Print Not AvailableNot Available
Note: Only some document formats may be available
Results 1 to 1 of 1

1. Preview (Abstract/Citation) Full Text (No Photos) Buy Page Print Commentary
A 'Big Cat' With Nothing to Lose
Leaving Hussein no hope will trigger his worst weapons, U.S. envoy in historic '90 meeting warns
Joseph C. Wilson; Los Angeles Times; Feb 6, 2003; B.17;
Preview (Abstract/Citation) Preview Full Text (No Photos) Text (no photos) Buy Page PrintPage Print Not AvailableNot Available

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=%22A+%27Big+Cat%27+With+Nothing+to+Lose%22&x=57&y=14&type=current&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=0&frommonth=01&fromday=01&fromyear=1985&tomonth=03&today=17&toyear=2007&By=&Title=&at=ALL&Sect=ALL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I'm not paying 3.95 to read the Slimes
Edited on Sat Mar-17-07 05:11 PM by ben_meyers
But I did find a full reprint using the wayback machine. You have to scroll down a bit.
http://web.archive.org/web/20031204120220/http://restorehonesty.com/

I should have tried there after snopes I guess, I just don't always think of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Thanks, I stand corrected! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. It seems to be
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3156166.stm

And it's not like the world didn't already know Saddam Hussein was a worthless piece of shit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Nope. Not true. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. The article you link to seems to confirm that Wilson was in
Iraq, but it doesn't make any mention of Wilson writing the piece that the OP received in the email.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. I stand corrected
It may be that Wilson wrote this Op-Ed for the L.A. Times. Our own H20 Man cites the article in one of his journals:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/H2O%20Man/85

After reading the piece, I see that Wilson is questionng the motives for the Iraq war, from his perspective - having actually met and dealt with Hussein when he was Ambassador.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
razors edge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. And if it is?
So what, if anything it shows Wilson to be no fool and someone who would not underestimate Saddam. It does not portray the type of person who would let down his guard against a perceived enemy in order to score a political point.

Is the fact that he believed the propaganda presented as some type of rebuttal to his credibility?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. Interesting thread. I heard Wilson speak at UCSB the autumn before the invasion of Iraq
UC Santa Barbara is Joe Wilson's alma mater, as it happens, and he gave a public lecture to a packed 900-seat lecture hall.

Wilson is a good speaker. He talked about his creds, which are impressive, and shared anecdotes about his experiences with Saddam, including the ones in this piece.

This essay is consistent with what I heard Ambassador Wilson say to the audience that evening: Saddam Hussein is a dangerous, bad, man -- but there are intelligent ways of dealing with him, and there are stupid ways, such as those Bush was proposing and later carried out.

Hekate


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I think I know what my buddy is trying to say.
Edited on Sat Mar-17-07 11:51 PM by ben_meyers
We have been arguing, drinking, carousing and riding Harleys since we met over 40 years ago in Nam. But he got me with the "Andy Rooney" thing a while back so I like to check. I possibly should have asked if the article was real rather than true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I appreciated Wilson's talking about Saddam's nature, as there was some fuzzy-headed talk abroad...
...at the time in the anti-war community. Some people in the anti-war movement (not a lot, but some) were very unclear on who Saddam Hussein really was, which was a monster. (As a knowledgable op-ed writer pointed out, "He's a monster, but he's our monster," because of how the CIA nurtured him from when he was just a little thug.) I remember him gassing the Kurds, just as well as I remember Bush the Elder encouraging the Iraqis to rise up against Saddam by strongly hinting that the US would send support, and then leaving those that did stranded in the mountains.

It got to be really, really tiresome to keep trying to tell some of the younger people that not wanting the US to attack Iraq for no reason and not wanting the US to rain hellfire on civilian Iraqis, didn't mean that Saddam Hussein was an innocent victim.

I started to feel pretty Andy Roony-ish myself. One young woman in our peace coalition tried to raise money so she could go to Baghdad and be a so-called "human shield", and I just wanted to take her by the shoulders and shake some sense into her. Thank gods she was never able to carry out that suicidal plan.

So it was downright refreshing to have Joe Wilson remind at least the people in the lecture hall that Saddam Hussein was a bad actor, in addition to being very informative about foreign policy matters.

Hekate

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
17. Yes, it's true
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC