I hope I don't lose my friend over the email I sent her.

[CrispyQ]

She & her husband are undecided. They are worried that Obama will raise their taxes. Her husband has a very successful direct mail coupon business & under Obama's plan, they would pay a little bit more, while under McCain's plan they will get a refund. A week ago when we had this conversation, I told her that the economy will likely do much worse under a McCain presidency than an Obama one. I pointed out that the loss of income due to a poor economy will impact them much more than a slightly higher tax bill. She admitted she hadn't thought of it that way.

She sent me an email today & she's still not convinced that she should vote for Obama. So today, I tried a new tactic. She works to provide health benefits for her family. So, I sent her this:

Last week you mentioned being concerned about taxes & that's why you're undecided about who to vote for. I don't know if you're aware, but McCain's health care plan is to tax your employer provided health care. The premiums your employer pays for your family's health care, would be taxed like income. The other part of his plan is to provide a $5000 tax credit to purchase your own private health insurance. This is a tax credit, not cash, to purchase private insurance. I'm willing to bet that premiums for family coverage are much, much more than $5k per year, plus you'll have to come up with the premiums first, then get a tax credit at the end of the year.

This is a very brief article that states McCain's plan. I personally think the AFLCIO is a decent organization. But if you're suspect, Google McCain's health care plan yourself & see what you find.

http://www.aflcio.org/issues/politics/mccain_healthcare.cfm

I hope I don't sound like I'm preaching to you, but I really do believe that there are so many other issues than just taxes in this year's election. We currently have the biggest debt in our nation's history. America has been living on credit for the last 8 years & someone is going to have to pay the piper. If not you & me, then your children. Cheney said, 'Deficits don't matter.' But you & I both know he doesn't manage his personal finances with that philosophy, & you & I don't manage ours that way either.

And lastly I'll just say that I think McCain is a war monger the likes of which we haven't seen, even in the last eight years. I don't know if it was his POW experience, or that he, like Bush, is trying to live up to his father's legacy, but he is on tape as saying that 'there will be more wars,' 'we're going to have more wars,' 'you young people up here in front, I'm going to ask you to serve.' This video is a little long, but the quotes I gave are all in here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJUCU1UH2w

I don't know about you, but I don't want more war. I'm tired of death & destruction. I'm tired of the world looking at the US like we've lost our collective mind & our integrity. I want my country to be the good guys again. I don't know if Obama/Biden can implement the change we so desperately need, but I know that McCain/Palin cannot.

Your friend,

Like so many of my friends, she's not at all political & incredibly uninformed. It's an issue I have with most of my friends -- they are uninformed & they go to the polls & cast a vote without educating themselves first. I hope this email doesn't piss her off too much, cuz I'm going to revise it a little bit & send it to another friend, who is also undecided & concerned about . . . you guessed it, TAXES!!

:eyes:

Please tell me I'm not the only one with such uninformed friends!! :banghead:

[closeupready]

1. I actually lost a friend over politics.

I grew up with her - have known her since freaking kindergarten. In 2004, she persisted in sending me anti-Kerry swiftboat emails. I know for a fact that she became a xtian fundie during her years in the deep south, and so I stopped emailing her, or reading her emails. Being gay, I was like, what is the point? So, for better or worse, I've moved on.

[CrispyQ]

6. I'm sorry to hear that, but I know what it's like.

My relationship with my mother was ruined over politics. When I saw the direction it was going, I called a cease & desist on all political talk. She would not stop, though. Every day there was some mean, hateful right wing crap in my email box. At her memorial, her best friend told me, "I tried to tell her not to forward that stuff to you, but she said that she wanted to stick it to you."

Gee, thanks, Mom. :eyes:

[closeupready]

11. Wow. I can't imagine that.

:(

[OwnedByFerrets]

9. I've lost family...sad, but true.

[mnhtnbb]

35. I've stopped communicating with my SIL because of the anti-Obama

e-mails she was sending without vetting them.

I've know her for over 40 years--before my brother married her--and I've always had a hard
time being around her for very long. She's very opinionated, domineering, doesn't listen
to others. In a word, she reminds me of my mother, with whom I did NOT get along.

I still talk to my brother (who is also Republican)but I won't be visiting them anymore.

[OwnedByFerrets]

36. My BIL became a recruiter to avoid going to Iraq and is a huge

MOnkeyboy supporter to this day. I havent spoken to him in over 3 yrs.

[Generic Brad]

37. You're not alone

I'm in the same boat as you and mine couldn't sail away from them fast enough.

[Ian David]

2. 90% of her customers will get a tax break, and will be able to spend more. n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

3. You did good

Congratulations on a well-informed and beautifully crafted note to your friend. She's lucky to have you and it's great that she's looking for guidance.

I know people who are voting for McCain. I have no idea why, except that they're racists, and I doubt our friendships will survive this election. Now I know things about them I never knew before.

Sometimes friendships have to end. Life is like that.

Good luck.

[wtmusic]

4. Excellent letter

If you lose a friend over a well-thought out and respectful letter like that, I'm afraid she's not much of a friend. IMO.

[mysticalchick]

7. My thoughts exactly

Well stated and very kind. :-)

[rawtribe]

5. Here a good link to send:

http://taxcut.barackobama.com

[sinkingfeeling]

8. Does she know that all Obama is doing is putting the top 2 tax brackets back to where they were

under Clinton? I yell at one of McSame's ads that runs locally that says something about 'raising taxes will kill our economy' and yell out, "Prove it". Because when Clinton did raise taxes the economy took off like a gang-buster and created over 23 million new jobs in 8 years. Compare that to Raygun's and W's tax-cut economies.

[Libertyfirst]

10. I'd rather lose a friend than my country.

I've tried to be patient and not respond to know-nothing friends in past elections. This year I have decided to take them on. If we don't stand up and speak out, certainly patiently and with reason, we become accomplices to to the haters, warmongers, and those who lack compassion. I have six grandchildren whom I love dearly. They cannot yet speak for themselves, so I cannot remain silent. I have a few folks who avoid me know and I can only repeat, I'd rather lose a friend than my country.

[prolesunited]

14. Thank you for your courage

and welcome to DU. :hi:

[CrispyQ]

16. Thanks for your response!

Cuz I just revised my email & sent it to my other friend.

You are right that we are accomplices when we sit idly by & let ignorance rule.

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[lyonn]

25. Welcome to DU

I have helped register to vote 2 grandkids and they registered Democrat. That was a good feeling since they are surrounded by repubs. We golden oldies need to do our best for those too young to understand what 4 more years of repub rule would truly mean. When it comes to their bank accounts they begin to pay attention, otherwise, it is god, guns and gays....... ok, and taxes that they don't understand. How much more clear could Obama be when he tells people he will not raise taxes on those 250,000. and less. The sad part is when the Feds don't help the States then the States raise their taxes. The head spins.

But hey, the polls are lookin' good!! Still holding my breath and sneaking into the booze cabinet...

[rucky]

12. Which plan will help her customers the most?

They want to offer consumers incentive to buy products, improve their homes, etc. - but nobody can really afford to do much of that these days. She needs to think beyond next April.

[Lebam in LA]

13. Great reply

However I tried the same tactic with my sister. All she can talk about is her company getting hit with more taxes. I tried to point out to her that if her company has no customers to buy their products, then it doesn't matter what tax rate her company is paying. (Her company sells those cheap ass trinkets from China) Supply side economics only worked as long as we had cheap credit to buy what we didn't really need. That is no longer the case. If we don't grow the middle class there is no consumer base to buy anything.

She sent be back an email all in caps "socialist". She continues to send me crap aboutProp 8 and how could I possibly support teaching my grandchildren such horrible things. All her emails now go to the trashcan without being opened.

So I hope your friend is more persuadable than my sister.

[Winterblues]

15. Great letter and another thing to keep in mind

Taxes will still be much less than under Reagan...

[pleah]

17. I don't see anything in your letter that would make her mad.

K&R

[nichomachus]

18. That's because you're a thoughtful reasonable rational person

You are in the minority.

[pleah]

29. Thank you!

:)

[Alameda]

19. It's a GREAT letter....

Unfortunately, some of us(me included) have issues communicating with family members over politics.

It's not really possible for me to discuss politics with my father. To him, I'm still only 5 years old. No amount of talk will convince him different. I try to skirt around the issues to get him to see my point, without actually talking about politics. He loves wildlife and wilderness, so I've talked about ANWAR, drilling, aerial wolf hunts and the like...without any mention of parties involved in them....family are the most difficult to deal with....

[dugaresa]

20. your not the only one with those kind of friends

sadly...after reading an article in the paper by Krugman...he thinks that we might have to dig a bit more of a debt hole in order to shake our economy up and start helping the middle class via public works programs...

the only way to pay down the debt and do that too would be to raise everyone's taxes or perhaps really tax the rich more..

[lyonn]

21. Your were great! Polite with real answers to her questions

Bookmarked this as I have encounters like yours and feel like I fail to be concise and get to the real points. This you did so well. Your friend seems to ask a reasonable question and you answered with dignity, no insults. Keep us informed.

Like you, I feel the biggest threat from McCain is his views on war, video was good. Any more wars and the rest won't matter, taxes, etc..

Thanks.

[barbtries]

22. you won't lose your friend

she may not bother to read through your email, but there was nothing offensive about it.

however i hope she does take the time. if she does she'll just have to vote for obama

[holiday]

23. I can't stand when people's only worry when it comes to America

and it's future is .... TAXES

geesh, but yet most of them want the war to keep going on. Who will pay for it?

[redqueen]

33. Bill Hicks, despite his Naderesque "they're all the same" crap .... did have a good spiel on this:

You know what bugged me about the whole election? They totally reduced it to this worship of money and that's what they made this whole election about: taxes, you know? Voting with your wallet.

People would say to me, "Bill, you vote for Clinton and he's gonna raise your taxes. He'll tell you he's not, but he's gonna. A vote for Clinton is a vote for higher taxes, Bill."

See, I have news for you folks...there's other reasons not to vote for George Bush than taxes. I don't know what's happened to us as a world, maybe twelve years of Republicanism has made us think this way. But the reason I didn't vote for George Bush is because George Bush along with Ronald Reagan presided over an administration whose policies toward South America included genocide. (Laughs)

So, yeah...you see, the reason I didn't vote for him is because he's a mass murderer. Yeah, okay, yeah.

I'll pay that extra nickel on a liter of petrol just knowin' little brown kids aren't being clubbed to death like baby seals in Honduras so Pepsi can put a plant down there. I'll pay that extra nickel.

[CrispyQ]

38. That is an excellent piece!

Thank you so much for sharing it. It really does put the 'moral superiority' so many of our citizens claim we have, in perspective, doesn't it?

[redqueen]

40. It surely does.

I wish he was still around...

[Bryn]

24. Tell your friend that she and husband will have MORE CUSTOMERS under Obama's Plan

[deaniac21]

26. When was the US the good guy?

[CrispyQ]

28. I don't know . . . like never?

Maybe I should have said the "better than we are now guy!"

;)

[whathehell]

27. No, unfortunately you're not. I have a couple of friends and

family members who are either uninformed or complete rednecks.

[Hekate]

30. Your letter is very respectful & polite. And informative. Don't be afraid to send it to anyone.

:hi:

Hekate

[tpsbmam]

31. Great email! You stand a good chance of gaining Obama 2 votes....

you've been respectful & informative. What else can anyone ask?

And no, you're not alone.....I just stay away from politics with some people I know and others, like your friends, are more open and willing to listen and we have some good discussions. Stick with it -- I've converted & convinced any number of people over many elections doing just what you're doing.

[Celebration]

32. what good does it do if her taxes are lower

When the value of her house and 401k keep going down..............?

[Azlady]

34. I lost a client over this, he was extremely smart, but also rich...

doesn't want to pay higher taxes... doesn't care how bad the repuke ticket is... arrgghh

[LibDemAlways]

39. If his money is in the stock market or real estate, chances are

he's not as rich as he used to be. Amazing how some people who have big money and are supposedly smart still can't put 2 and 2 together.