Someone just challenged me on Prop 8

[Mollis]

Here is what she said.

Do you know whats going to happen if prp eight falls. This society is putting les and less importance of the family, and I dont want my children growing up in a genderless society, where gender does not matter. churches will be sued. In marriages its not even bride and groom its Party A and Party B. Also this equals parental rights, becuase kids in younger kids their parents wont have any say or right or early notification in what the teacher is teaching the kids as morally equally and right- that is gay marriage- and they will not be able to pull their kids out of class. Just know whats going to happen if it fails. This is not a fight about tolerence, this is not a fight about equality, Prop 8 has NOTHING to do with that. It is about the actual definition of marriage, redefining the defintion of marriage.

Apparently, our kids won't know genders? We will be a genderless society.

P.S. She is a Mormon

[Bicoastal]

1. I think you misspelled that last word--left an extra "m" in the middle.

[Lex]

3. LOL

:rofl:

[Mollis]

4. ooh ok.

lol

[The Shadow]

2. Your Post Script Says It All

nm

[Mollis]

5. oh, yes. and

I forgot to add...
I told her that her church was the one fueling the yes on 8 ads, and that no one liked her church or what they were preaching.

[Beaverhausen]

6. You know the Mormon's are heavily funding the "yes on 8" side, right?

Did you respond to her?

[Mollis]

Hell ya I did

Actually, it is about equality. You only know one side of it, which is what the Mormon church is telling you. And they are the ones funding all of the yes on 8 ads.
Times change. Not long ago it was illegal for an interracial couple to get married. Not it's time for people to accept the gay community as people who deserve the same rights as everyone else.
And the laws are different in Cali then they are in Mass. Parents can tell the teachers what they do or do not want their kids to be taught. There is nothing in Prop 8 that actually says kids will be taught about gay marriage, but if they are, it's not going to tell them to be gay. It's going to tell them that they are people too, and that they should not be treated any differently than anyone else.
And churches will not get sued. Those are all scare tactics to get people to vote yes.
Before you think you know everything about it, look at the other side. Don't just listen to what your church tells you, because a lot of people really do not like what your church is preaching.

[funkybug]

7. Correct me if I'm wrong

But I'm pretty sure that being gay or straight requires one to have a basic ability to understand the concept of gender.

[Mollis]

8. exaclty...

I told her to look at both side, not just what her church tells her is right.

[Dragonfli]

9. "genderless society" sounds painful!!!

They are going about it all wrong, they should have made the prop about banning all of these "castrations" and "sow-ups" that appear to be in the plotting stages.

Hey, maybe we can get them to trade allowing people to have their constitutionally granted equal rights if they give up these mutilation plans!

Will this compromise proposal ease their tiny little cerebral cortexes?

[kestrel91316]

10. No one has ever been able to answer for me one simple question:

In exactly what manner will some gay guys' marriage cause harm to your own marriage?

Until someone explains this to me in plain English, the entire issue is a non-starter. I don't wanna hear about how hard it will be to explain gay marriage to THE CHILDREN. You explain it the same way you explain marriage between black and white, between older and younger, between Catholic and Jew. There's this funny thing called LOVE.

[Mollis]

11. EXACTLY what I want to know

they all claim it, but when I ask...they just go...uhh...umm...it just does.

[Dragonfli]

18. It only harms the few closet cases that are reminded that their

spouse is not what they really want. This could possibly blow the facade off their sham marriage.
Not a good enough reason do deny rights. Facing their own issues would be the answer to their "problems" not persecution. As for the others who think it will harm marriage? No causality has ever been shown to me. Stupidity? Belief in nonsense? I never could understand how they can claim to believe any of that crap. I have long since given up on them, they simply must be stopped like any other bigoted idiots.

[underseasurveyor]

12. I spoke with a woman just last week... she said the EXACT same things.

OMG point by point she said the same things.

[Mollis]

13. Must be a moron

...mormon.

[Oeditpus Rex]

14. Let's see...

:bluebox: Same-sex marriage puts greater emphasis on families, by creating more of them. A family is not just a man, a woman and 2.1 children.

:bluebox: "Genderless society"? Prop 8 seeks to amend the California Constitution, not millions of years of biology.

:bluebox: Churches will be sued for what? Refusal to accommodate weddings of gay couples? What couple, gay or "straight," would put their wedding on hold to pursue a lawsuit that would almost certainly be thrown out, since a church or clergy member can't be forced to marry anyone they don't wish to? And, in the first place, what gay couple would attend a church that doesn't welcome them?

:bluebox: Apparently your Mormon acquaintance didn't hear the news from almost a month ago: 'Bride' and 'groom' being restored to California marriage forms

:bluebox: How does she know parents "won't have any say or right or early notification in what the teacher is teaching the kids as morally equally and right — that is gay marriage — and they will not be able to pull their kids out of class"? Absolutely nothing in the current statutes addresses this, nor any other element of education.

:bluebox: Marriage has been "redefined" several times over the last few thousand years, including the days when it meant a man could take several wives and the more-recent days when it meant a black person could not marry a white person. It would seem society has been better for every "redefinition" of marriage.



The "Yes on 8" argument boils down to one simple truth: "Queers give us the creeps." But that wouldn't look right on a yard sign, so the haters have to gin up some scary stuff.

[Mollis]

16. VERY good points

Very nice.

[amdezurik]

15. seems she does not know the difference

between a form filled out at the county clerks office and a ceremony held separately...

[Mollis]

17. Well, not she doesn't

She is 16. And only listens to what her church spews out at her.
They could tell her that it was raining purple pennies and she would probably believe it.

[nomorenomore08]

19. "And in the Iraq and suchlike..."

Why am I getting mental images of Miss Teen South Carolina right now? :P

[Mollis]

20. ha. no kidding

This girl is blonde on the inside, I swear.
She also has no common sense. Whatsoever.

[kevinbgoode]

21. Well, it's funny....

apparently she didn't seem to mind when the federal government "redefined marriage" for the Mormon Church. . .by force.

These people never have any problem voting to take constitutional rights away from others. I think, if this passes, some smart liberals should get together and start a petition drive to amend the Constitution to remove some rights from right wingnuts. What can they say? It's not about equality? It's about the children. . .and we don't like having our children taught that there are morons in the state. Besides, why should we allow the government to recognize the marriages of conservatives anyway? They don't do anything really productive for society. . .they should just be put into the same classification of citizen as the ones they discriminate against.
There's nothing "moral" or "principled" about being a right wingnut except searching desperately for ways to elevate themselves over others.

[Mollis]

22. Very nicely said

and I agree.

[obiwan]

23. Ask her when the last time was when a homosexual had a direct and real impact...

...on her life. She's scared and obviously homophobic. She needs to control her own life and forget about controlling others.

[defendandprotect]

26. Well, that may have been Jesus; I think he was bi-sexual . . .

[DRoseDARs]

24. My Mormon friend would say this woman is full of shit. He got over his fear of Teh Gheys long ago.

He's still iffy about gay marriage and gay parents/adoptions, but he understands the facts don't bare out his concerns and is willing to leave it alone. Marriage is an economic contract and has been since Ogg kidnapped Ogga from a rival tribe. It's a means of keeping the peace between rival groups while securing reproductive resources (take an Anthropology class) and has evolved as a means of better-ensuring economic security for the involved parties. Studies done on gay couples with children show no substantive difference in the rearing of those children vs straight couples with children. Hell, he wants gays allowed to serve openly in the military. He jokes that in combat he'd rather have a gay soldier who's madly in love with him watching his back than a straight soldier. My friend is Republican by registration but is really Libertarian in his values as I've understood them over the course of our friendship. He strongly disagrees with Barack Obama's policies, but has a great deal of respect for him. He was really disappointed with the Republican field and probably won't vote. Gays may have an agenda, but between their listening to Babs and dressing fabulously, he's not concerned enough to care about gay marriage or gay parenting. ;)

[defendandprotect]

27. Odd because hetereosexuals are 100X more likely to sexually abuse children . . .

He's still iffy about gay marriage and gay parents/adoptions

[defendandprotect]

25. What do they do with all the Mormon homosexual kids . . . hide them?

Threaten them?

Ship them out of state?