To what extent should churches be allowed to discuss the election?

[The Backlash Cometh]

Currently, on the same church billboard that stated "One on God's side, is still a majority," the billboard now reads (paraphrasing) Special Sessions to discuss who should be president.

But it's out in the open, so it's open for discussion.

[patrice]

1. I suppose we're just supposed to "Believe" that those Special Sessions will be

non-partisan.

:eyes:

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. I'm curious as hell to see how they're going to do it.

I think my walking in, however, will have some influence and the key is to be a fly on the wall.

[patrice]

17. There is a genuine Calling for folks who can perform the "fly on the wall" function in America's

churches. There was an organization in our area who used to do this, but I heard recently that they've been co-opted.

[efhmc]

2. "Hey folks, go vote. It is very impostant to our country." That is it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. If the churches don't get it by now, it's because the IRS hasn't been

forceful enough in explaining the rules.

[instantkarma]

11. Or, If the churches don't get it by now,

it's because the IRS hasn't been forceful enough in enforcing the rules. The worst offenders, in my opinion Southern Baptists and Catholics -- the latter mostly in regards to abortion issues -- are going to keep doing it until they're shown they face real consequences.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

13. Evangelicals are worse than Catholics in my neck of the woods.

Although I would like to see my local pastor addressing social justice issues more frequently.

[davsand]

12. "Jesus wants you to vote" would probably be ok.

Anything beyond that should result in a loss of tax exemption no matter what political views the church is espousing.




Laura

[TexasObserver]

3. Unless they do away with the charitable deduction, NONE.

NONE. Not one mention of it.

For those of us who work with REAL charities that must follow stringent guidelines which prohibit any political activities, churches are anathema. They do what the hell they want, they make little effort to follow the law, and they resent the little compliance they do accomplish. They're clubs that do little real charitable work compared to the dollars that pass through their hands. They build big edifices, they lavishly appoint it, and they go there to worship themselves and their cluster of biases.

The least they can do is shut up about politics.

[instantkarma]

5. As much as they want.

As long as they're willing to forgo their tax-exempt status.

[undeterred]

7. Churches teach about values

so they should talk about social values, but without getting into specific policy. People in most belief systems are also supposed to think. So I think its ok for churches to give general guidance but not to make specific recommendations about who to vote for.

If you tell a room full of people to vote and keep in mind "thou shalt not kill" some are going to think about abortion and others about war. There should be room for that. I honestly remember a time when I had no idea how the minister was going to vote.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

10. In 2004 most of the priests at my mostly conservative college

took the stance of: "Yes, abortion is an issue, but so are the death penalty, war, poverty, prison reform, health care, and other matters of social justice. You have an obligation to vote your conscience, so now go inform your conscience and learn about the issues." I always liked that approach. Of course, I don't think many people at my school actually did what the priests asked.

[undeterred]

26. Jesuit priests probably spend more time thinking about

these issues than anyone I've ever met.

[deaniac21]

36. When they aren't thinking about little boys.

[undeterred]

27. Jesuit priests probably spend more time thinking about

these issues than anyone I've ever met.

[WarbirdForObama]

8. Let them discuss

How they're gonna deal without their Tax Exempt Status.

Period

[slackmaster]

9. The basic tax rule is that non-profit organizations cannot engage in partisan political activity

They cannot advocate for one party or one candate over any other.

A member of the clergy or an officer of a church or other organization CANNOT use the group's pulpit to advise members which candidate or party better represents the group's interests. They CAN host forums and debates in which information is presented by all sides, and let members decide for themseelves.

If a non-profit hosts a candidates' forum or debate, they have to extend invitations to ALL qualified candidates for a particular office. I personally experienced non-profits of all stripes breaking this rule earlier this year when I was working for a candidate.

The IRS rules on this are very clear, but the law is seldom enforced. This year the Mormons and the Roman Catholic Church are getting away with wholesale advertising for California's Proposition 8, which would ban same-sex marriage.

[JVS]

15. About prop 8. is that technically partisan activity?

We all know which party is on which side on that, but aren't ballot initiatives non-partisan by nature? Do the different choices say Yes (R) and No (D)?

Or is it still illegal even if there is no party endorsement?

[slackmaster]

16. Advocating for just one side of a ballot proposition falls under partisan activity

For the purpose of determining eligibility for tax-exempt status.

"Partisan" in this sense means one party as in one side, not one political party.

The violations I observed during the primary season here in San Diego all occurred in a race for a non-partisan office. Each qualified candidate constituted a party to the election. But somehow organizations managed to invite only the Democrats, or only the heterosexual candidates, or only the professed Christians, or only the two or three top fund-raisers, etc. to events that they hosted.

[gratuitous]

14. What is meant by "discuss"?

Our church feeds the hungry, houses the homeless, and visits the sick and imprisoned. All three of those are very political acts, guaranteed to offend some folks or be perceived as meddling in the political process. Our congregation can point to quite a number of biblical passages that command us to do these things, but if a third party arrives on the scene and denounces our congregation for showing compassion for people with AIDS (as just one example), what should happen?

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. Discuss means discuss.

They are going to have "sessions" to discuss who should be president.

Now, if you were doing all those fine things in your church and reached the conclusion that the Democrats weren't providing enough money to the church to help you do the things you want to do and decided, instead, to vote Republican in order to get a hold of voucher money or grants, then, the way I understand the law, you would be in trouble too.

In essence, churches can help whoever they want to help. What they can't do is lobby a certain political party to get government assistance, and tell their congregation how to vote.

[gratuitous]

21. Okay, they're having "sessions"

Is everyone free to attend and speak? Will congregational leaders mention what's important to them, and what they've historically preached and done in their community as a consequence of their belief system? Without naming or endorsing a specific candidate, they are perfectly within their rights to encourage attendees who agree with their stated beliefs to examine the various candidates' records and determine for themselves who is more likely to enact programs they claim they agree with.

If you're of a mind to, you might yourself attend, and articulate what you believe and why. Considering the likely audience, it would be helpful to cite references to the Bible and to Christian writings down through the ages to support your rhetorical argument. Who knows? This could be a teachable moment in your community.

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. That is certainly your opinion.

You're assuming the church will know where to stop. But a church which is Southern Baptist, which I believe this one is, will attract few speakers who will "give the other side." A church is not a secular place by definition. You are thinking there is going to be a healthy, objective debate and I really don't see how that's going to be possible in such an insular organization.

[gratuitous]

24. Well by all means, then

Simply render a prospective judgment without resort to anything that actually happens, or that might happen, or that could happen should you decide to do something about it.

Don't know what I was thinking. Carry on.

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. Well, I'll add this, then.

If they do discuss in a secular manner without a hidden agenda which is tied to their religion, it will be the first time I heard of it.

But a surprise would be happy thing, indeed.

[Cerridwen]

35. Ahem. Not necessarily.

I'm not going to re-type this again, and again. Please, consider reading the post at the link.

[stillcool]

19. So many non-profits..

are created by the uber-wealthy for the purpose of tax shelters. They get to push their agenda through their organizations, which are huge, and are not even comparable to churches in a community that help those in need.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/index.html@sort=title_tagline.html#org

[bighart]

20. I have not heard much in my area about churches being overtly

political. What are some examples where you have seen a church cross the line? I may need to pay closer attention to what is being said around my area.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. Check out their billboards when you're driving around.

They're getting pretty blatant around here.

Also, start responding to those chainletters they send around and see what they say when they write back. If you're in an area like mine, they feel very entitled to circumvent the law to sustain a lifestyle they've grown accustom to. You'll see it everywhere. In fact, it may be so blatant that you don't even realize the role you've accepted to play, by looking the other way.

[bighart]

25. I heard a local pastor say something to the effect

that he is more convinced now than ever that is the responsibility of every that is eligible to get to the polls and vote. He went on to say that each should vote his or her own moral conscience. I actually found his comments rather encouraging. By the way he is a southern baptist preacher. Would you call that over the line?

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. If it were my pastor, I would just like to know that I was truly able to

follow my moral conscience as I defined it, and not as the church did.

If that's the case, I would say that they're within safe boundaries.

[deaniac21]

28. We campaign openly (always have) in black churches. I'd just

leave it alone.

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. Well, I suspect we'll be revisiting this one, one day soon.

[bighart]

38. what do you mean when you say

"we campaign in openly in black churches"?

[snappyturtle]

29. It's wrong. nt

[Cerridwen]

33. They are not allowed to discuss candidates and retain their (c)3

tax exemption.

The IRS has the final say but the IRS has some rules about discussing candidates.

I took the time to put together some information in another post. I'll just link the information here. My post was about voter education rather than candidates but the second .pdf linked in my post has some information specific to candidates versus issues.

[GreenFiles]

34. If they enage in any political discussion they should lose tax exempt status

[DS1]

37. They should tell people to research, make up their own minds, and vote

For anything more they should lose their tax exemption and run out of business.