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so the market rocketed almost 900 points today...

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 03:18 PM
Original message
so the market rocketed almost 900 points today...
as "good" as this sounds, why am I disturbed by it?

these kinds of jumps really scare the hell out of me.
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Somebody recently described it as the wobblying of a top before it finally falls.
Up and down..up and down...crash!
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Volitility is not a good thing.
Besides, the market has to rocket another 3-4,000 points before I can get out of equities of any sort entirely.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. They're cashing in on that govt(i.e. our) money
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. yeah... watch it fall
what goes up will go down.... didn't we have a "surge" two weeks ago of more than 800 points. Look what happened to that.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Stealing your pension and 401-K ain't redistributing your wealth to
the rich, but an Obama tax cut for the middle class is. That's the "Reality" John and the crony corps are creating today.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. Its a slap on the face to the average American that the market rallied after ......
........this mornings release of record low consumer confidence numbers.

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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. That's also the reason it's a sucker rally
Our economy is moribund because the demand side has been starved for the last 40 years.

People who want to earn real wealth need customers. Most of the wealth held by the rich is numbers on paper, generated by shuffling paper around instead of generating goods and services.

Goods and services will continue to diminish since customers are fewer and fewer.

And that brings us back to the demand side of the equation.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is called a "Suckers' Rally".
These mini-rallies happened several times between 1929 and 1932.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Bingo. Heavy on buyers, light on sellers. n/t
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. because you know the "sells" will plummet it tomorrow?
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. The people who are cheering this on today like it is something heroic or "in your face"
Edited on Tue Oct-28-08 03:53 PM by TheWatcher
To those of us who know better really don't understand the complexity and the systemic nature of the problems not only with our financial system, but the WORLD'S financial system.

This is not just about us. It's about the whole planet.

And exactly what is today's rally based on other than manipulation machinations that are designed for management of perception rather than anything real or substantial that would stimulate a REAL recovery?

Forget Wall Street. What has changed on MAIN STREET? What has changed fundamentally in our economy. How are things getting better. How in the world does the biggest financial Crisis THE WORLD has ever seen get solved in 8 YEARS, much less 8 weeks?

Thousands of Hedge funds are on the brink of collapse. GM is all but Bankrupt. I guess the Consumer Confidence Number this morning doesn't matter either, right? Has housing recovered? Is Unemployment improving or getting worse? Iceland, THE COUNTRY is insolvent and Bankrupt. Supposedly the Banks are Hoarding Money instead of lending.

But a 10% Rally in the Dow in one day can put everyone back to sleep and we can declare the Bear Market DEAD? A rally based on what? Synthetic Bullshit EOM Window Dressing, and the prospect of another Rate Cut from Helo Ben that will solve exactly nothing?

Look, NO ONE wants the economy to do badly. What is happening right now is not good for anyone. But do not be fooled by Bulls getting high off of Bullshit.

This isn't even close to being over. They can jam the Market up all they want, even back up through 10,500 to get everyone to shut up and go back to sleep, but unless it's based in some sort of fundamental reality, it isn't going to work.

The idiots who ran this up today better hope to God there is some sort of short term follow through. If there is not, this day will be remembered for the Bullshit that it is.

The question is simple.

BASED. ON. WHAT?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Black op money to spike up the economy for a week or two has been a possibility for
Edited on Tue Oct-28-08 04:12 PM by truedelphi
Several decades.

The problem is that the average voter has had it. All the things you mention allow the insight to pull the switch for "Change"
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. The CNBC crew was positively organsmic over it today. Sickening. n/t
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. It's all based on hope and change
An unchanged market becomes stagnant. People want change and the random chaos that is politics,
the market and the munitions maker will change. Of course we all hope tomorrow will bring
us the changes needed
to made it even better than today was.

Capitalism is an abstraction created by human minds. Nothing more.
And remember....don't send lira, God don't want small potatoes.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. Casino Wall St., up, down, all around-the usual funhouse antics
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. THE NUMBER IS UP!!! THE NUMBER LOVES US!!
All hail the number!!!
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. everyday is a thousand foot bungee jump!!!!!!
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ShadowLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. Even if it jumps up a billion points in a day people will still worry about the economy
The fact is for the past like 6 weeks or whenever this financial crisis started in the stock market it's been highly unpredictable and moving all over the board in such a short amount of time, but going downward generally. That's why consumer confidence is at a record low.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
19. People with CASH (not in banks) looking for deals. That cash AIN'T going to loans ...
Edited on Tue Oct-28-08 08:26 PM by TahitiNut
... and AIN'T going to the underlying BUSINESSES. That cash is in the Greater Fool Theory game chasing after profit on no productivity gain and no employment improvement.

We've had many years where wealth has 'trickled up' and when the time comes to demonstrate any credibility to the specious notion that it would actually stimulate employment or growth or enterprise as it seeks more gain, the theory of "supply side" FAILS. In part, this is due (imho) to the "soapy" (ready to host bubbles) nature of the equities markets. The cash is in the hands of folks seeking SHORT-TERM gains ... immediate gratification. They're not interested in capitalizing business loans for either growth (mid- to long-term) or operations (short-term). Why? Because business has eaten its seed corn and drunk the priming water. In other words, they've done a "scorched earth" on their customer base in a consumer economy. The 'base' of the economy (consumers) has been ravaged and has no discretionary income that business can go after. Hysteresis loop: lay off employees and those employees can't be cutomers leading to more lay-offs leading to less customers ... and so on.

Until the economic 'base' is itself healed, we're going NOWHERE. "Trickle down" is a DEMONSTRATED FAILURE.

I predict more cycles of "pump and dump" as the cash-holders (remaining players in the game of Monopoly) continue to eat the smallest of their ilk and the fat ones get fatter and fewer. We'll be seeing more and more mutual fund and pension fund failures as they get EATEN.

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