A primer on "Socialism in the US - 1850 to present"

[Cerridwen]

It's online and it has a reasonable tone. If we're going to throw the word around, I thought it might be nice to know what it looked like in practice on our shores.

Ideas and Movements
Socialism in America
1850-Present

Roots of socialism in America

The roots of socialism in America can be traced to the arrival of German immigrants in the 1850s when Marxian socialist unions began, such as the National Typographic Union in 1852, United Hatters of 1856, and Iron Moulders' Union of North America in 1859. Theodore H. White, author of Fire in the Ashes: Europe in Mid-Century (1953) wrote, "Socialism is the belief and the hope that by proper use of government power, men can be rescued from their helplessness in the wild cycling cruelty of depression and boom."

snip to the rest of the article

edit to add a link to a history of the US population - 1790-2000 to put numbers of Socialists in perspective.

[Solly Mack]

1. Thank you.

I saw bits of a report where a reporter that was interviewing Palin asked if Obama's economic policy is socialism (CNNi)

(When the question should have been, "Do you even know what socialism is?")

The reporter said she continued to decline to answer but pushed how McCain was better instead.

[Cerridwen]

2. Oh yeah. I keep waiting for someone - anyone to ask these

ditto-heads if they even know what they're chanting and parroting?

After the win next month, it's only going to get worse. We need to know our history and how this has been used against us before.

[depakid]

25. I actually asked that question on the Oregonian's Obama endorsement thread

and implied that most of the people yammering on about it hadn't clue one what it is.

I also tossed the VA out there to see if I'd get a bite. ;-)

Sure enough, I got several- and sure enough, even after some succint explanations- the talk radio listeners continued making fools of themselves (though one expects that they take great pride in their willful ignorance of all things economic).

Seems some didn't take kindly to the notion that the VA is a socialist entity- and simply wouldn't accept it.

It was an amusing thread- members of the editorial board posted numerous times, defending their endorsement, and columnist David Sarasohn jumped in down the line with his own rebuke about what socialism is- and isn't.

[Cerridwen]

26. Good job. Thanks!

I like to play with government employees who complain about socialism. Never stopping to think for a moment where their salary comes from. The disconnect is amazing.

[depakid]

27. One would think that it's a fairly simple concept

The VA- as a government entity, owns all its facilities, employs its health care providers and makes choices (sometimes arbitrary ones) about how to allocate its resources to a monopolized "sector" or segment of the population.

It's just "smaller box" version of the "larger box" British NHS (actual socialized medicine). Regardless of the population served- whole or a subset, the concept is the same.

American, Canadian, and to a somewhat lesser extent Australian Medicare, aren't socialized medicine- any more than progressive taxation is (don't get me started on that) some socialist scheme. They simply draw from a single fund (or sets of funds) to pay private facilities and providers more cost effectively and efficiently. Competition is alive and well- as are the benefits that go wih them.

The bizarre thing about all of this is that much of the whinging centers on the very abuses that insurers are engaging in every day- with no transparency or accountability- and yet the focus seems to be on evil government (Medicare), which- while far from perfect, hasn't such a sordid history.

:shrug:

[Cerridwen]

28. Ah, but when businesses do it, it's just business.

When government does it, it's incompetence.

"We" have "all" been well and truly indoctrinated into some weird double standards.

And the old if it ain't perfect we can't do it, or even start it, canard. I have to grit my teeth on that one. I'm amazed how frequently people want to throw the "baby out with (norquist's) bathwater." I imagine them on a baseball team saying, "Sorry, coach. We don't stand a chance of winning. Let's forfeit the game." Yeah, that's the old American can-do spirit. Oops, I went into rant mode. /rant

*stepping off high horse and going to make highball and mellow out*

[depakid]

31. "the old American can-do spirit"

Interesting you would mention that. I was just just thinking the other day about some old can do Republicans like Norma Paulus, Dave Frohnmayer and Mark Hatfield, to name but a few.

Unlike the nutjobs we've seen lately- the Karen Minnis' of the world, they were worthy opponents. People who had a bit of intelligence and integrity, even if we didn't always agree with them.

I for one would welcome them back to help solve the problems of the 21st Century.

[stevedeshazer]

3. kick

[upi402]

4. Union folks telling me Obama is too liberal to vote for

is just too much irony for my little brain. But they say it a lot. And my head hurts.

[cynatnite]

5. They have no more of an idea what liberalism is than they do socialism. n/t

[FatDave]

10. Exactly right.

Two words that have been demonized, and that's as far as they think about it. "Socialism bad! Liberals bad!" I get really depressed whenever I realize just how stupid many people are. Fucking slightly-above-average monkeys.

[Cerridwen]

6. Maybe you could print part of this article out and hand it to 'em.

It might not help, but at least it could give your poor head a break.

Of course, something about the history of unions in the US might be a help, too.

You have my sympathy. Conservative union members make my teeth itch.

[Selatius]

13. I've run into union workers like that. Their ignorance is truly painful.

It almost makes me wish that they would be thrown back to a period where unions were still largely illegal. Maybe if they walked in the shoes of those who came before, they'd learn.

[Cerridwen]

7. struggle4progress has put up a couple of links in Editorials & Other Articles

that I think are pertinent here. Perhaps I'm not the only one who sometimes misses articles on other parts of DU. :D

The 'Socialist' Scare (Marcus / WaPo)

and

Politics of Words: GOP stirs campaign with "socialist" talk

[Cerridwen]

8. Oh, what the heck. I'm going to add a link to a post I put up earlier

that shows more of the history of "red baiting" in the US.

[blindpig]

15. No need for that here

we have a shitload of experts in that 'art'.

[frankowen7]

9. K & R

[Selatius]

11. Personally, I see nothing wrong with socialism. Eugene Debs is a hero. It's a shame that...

he is not often found in high school textbooks. It is as if the point of public education now is to lobotomize young people to keep them from developing class consciousness and seeing common cause with people like Debs and anybody willing enough to challenge the status quo and challenge the wrongs of society.

[Cerridwen]

21. I don't remember much about socialism discussions in school.

At least not until college.

It was as if it was just a passing fad.

[Greyhound]

12. K & R, good job and thanks. n/t

:kick: & R

[snot]

14. Yeah! I grew up in one of the socialist areas mentioned

and have lived in or visited many other places in the U.S. . . . and surprise! the area where i grew up still had the BEST public schools, the BEST parks, the BEST highways and other infrastructure of any place i've been in the U.S.

[Cerridwen]

16. Morning kick and another link

to another post of mine that has additional history about how they attacked socialized medicine in the 1930s.

This fight has been going on for a long time. Our lack of knowledge of our history is used time and again to beat us as they remember the ways to fight us and we forget and reinvent the wheel again and again and again and ...

We are ripped into factions rather than coming together to fight the real enemy. These past 8 years are just the most recent in a long history of keeping us divided against our own best interests.

Qui bono - to whose benefit?

[Greyhound]

17. The demonization of socialism was the response to people's rejection of,

and reaction to, the last time this nation was taken over by the parasites and it scared the shit out of them. The fact that FDR never finished the job got us here today.
:kick:

[Cerridwen]

20. I wonder if we'll have the chance this time? n/t

[Greyhound]

32. Not really looking good right now, but that's what happens when a small power group decides

who gets to be a choice.
:kick:

[ColbertWatcher]

18. "rescued from their helplessness in the wild cycling cruelty of depression and boom."

That's an interesting turn of phrase!

Bookmarked for later reading and safekeeping!

Thank you!

[Cerridwen]

19. You're welcome.

Thank you for taking the time to read.

[ColbertWatcher]

22. I haven't read the whole thing, something like this deserves undeivided attention. n/t

[Cerridwen]

23. Okay then.

Thank you for planning to read.

:D

[ColbertWatcher]

24. I have it bookmarked, I just have some news I have to catch up on! n/t

[guardian]

29. Good....but

completely misses the first 100 years of progressive socialist movement in the US. For example it completely ignores the work of Robert Owen in the 19th century. Robert Owen is person who coined the term "socialism." You think they'd think to mention that.

[Cerridwen]

30. The OP wasn't meant to be all encompasing. It's a place to start.

That article is a place to start to address some of the basics. Gotta walk before you can run and all that. I apologize if I in any way implied it was more than a place to start.

If you have links to online works, please consider adding them to this thread or their own thread. Those who care to proceed beyond the primer level can then move on to more in-depth research and study.

Thank you for pointing that out.

[fishbulb703]

33. Thanks. We need to end the negative connotation of this word in the US.