Has it ever occured to most of you that there are a WHOLE LOT of

[Subdivisions]

new people here on DU that are new to this process? Has it also occured to you that maybe some are here because they feel a need to be participate in some way in the Democratic process and that by choosing DU, they've decided to fight on Democrats' behalf? And, has it occured to you that some of them may not be as smart on the big picture as you are - that they may base their opinions on what they've learned only (or mostly) since joining DU? If these people make misguided or not wholly-informed decisions, is that any reason to treat them like trolls or freepers or to be generally nasty or to viciously attack them? Or would it be more constructive to patiently teach them the (perceived) error of their ways? For instance, if someone says "Obama doesn't need Powell's endorsement", is that any reason to get downright nasty with them? Or is it an opportunity to help them understand why such an endorsement is a good thing?

This goes for anything regarding politics and the history thereof.

[NoPasaran]

1. Never would have guessed

[Vincardog]

2. May be that is why everyone is free to offer their opinion any time they want

[rucky]

3. That's just crazy talk.

K&R

and I wonder how many votes we've swayed back, or how many lurkers out there don't dare join a discussion.

I also think there are "troll-hunting" trolls here who deliberately try to discourage new members.

[patrice]

4. Some people put themselves and their own feelings of whatever ahead of the goals they say they are

committed to.

Some cause pain on purpose, in order to make others look bad.

[daninthemoon]

5. that's why i rarely post here anymore. too many blogers here puff

themselves up with hateful judgemental posts, accusing others of all kinds of crap. it's really too bad.

[johnnie]

6. I've been saying that here for years

I am pretty sure we lost some good members because of this. I think some people think it is a badge of courage to "spot a troll" so they judge too quickly and then others pile on.

Not everyone is innately politically aware, it takes some time and education.

[Ladyhawk]

10. I LEFT because of the atmosphere here.

I've been posting again lately, but I don't know for how long.

[ThatsMyBarack]

26. Me, too!

But I felt really lost without DU. I came back after 10 days. PM me sometime, and we'll swap stories! ;)

[Ladyhawk]

31. I've been gone for a long time...don't know how long, but it's been a year at least.

I left one of those "Why I Am Leaving DU" posts that people hate so much: "Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya" and all that. As I recall, I decided not to read the thread and just left because I knew I'd get more crap. Either that or I read part of it and got more crap and left. Can't remember which. *shrug*

[lpbk2713]

42. I remember you well.

I hope things are going well for you these days.

:thumbsup: :hi: :thumbsup:

[tularetom]

7. Ain't no reason EVER for vicious or nasty attacks here on DU

I save those for my goddamn stupid motherf***Ing relatives and friends who insist on sending idiotic emails about Bill Ayers, Obama is a Muslim etc.

Anybody who posts here is by definition intelligent and therefore entitled to courtesy.

[hisownpetard]

8. REC!!!! I love this post and couldn't agree more. Also, I hate when someone posts a well-meaning

question and is set upon by hordes of people, anxious to diminish them.
Not all of us are able to be on DU 24/7, so we may approach the current news at different times.
This is not a crime and it's not a sign of lesser intelligence, just a fact of life.
Be civil, be nice.
It doesn't cost you a dime!

[yy4me]

11. Amen...

K&R

[treestar]

29. I agree totally - I hate is when someone posts a question and

they get scolded for posting it without going through Google first and researching it to death. It's so judgmental. As if DU were a workplace or something and not just a message board.

[canetoad]

9. Well said TE

The best example is the utmost grace with which Obama accepted the endorsement of Powell. A few here could take a lesson.

"And this morning, a great soldier, a great statesman, and a great American has endorsed our campaign to change America. I have been honored to have the benefit of his wisdom and counsel from time to time over the last few years, but today, I am beyond honored and deeply humbled to have the support of General Colin Powell,"

[jonnyblitz]

12. oh that brought tears to me eyes.

:puke:

[Demit]

13. Beg pardon, but it does matter what tone a newcomer posts in, as to what response they get.

Consider it like this: you are at a party, and you see a group of people. You'd like to go up to them and join the conversation. Do you walk up and say something confrontational? No, you don't. You ease yourself into the conversation. That's common sense, and if newcomers don't have it, they're going to called on it.

[johnnie]

16. But sometimes it's like...

You are at a party and see a group of people. You walk over and ask "is the beer in the fridge?" and they respond "no you fucking idiot, the beer is in the basement..you troll!".

[Demit]

24. I really don't think that likely happens.

Unless, of course, you are a fucking idiot.

[Subdivisions]

18. Ummm... I am not a newcomer. I've been here for going on three

years. I am also a donor to DU.

But, your point is not entirely without merit.

[bertman]

14. Well put, Texas Explorer. The vitriol sometimes gets out of hand. Maybe this will help

make more people aware of being respectful of others' opinions.

To me, the Democratic party is the party that historically allowed for the "big tent" discussion of all kinds of ideas. I hope we can continue that tradition.

Thanks.

[melody]

15. You troll! ;)

Sorry, I couldn't resist ... probably gonna get me a moderator note though. (IT WAS A JOKE)

We have so many people who are over here (who've specifically been sent by the GOP wacks) to do awful things that it's easy to jump to that conclusion ... I've done it. Many times, it's obvious who they are. Other times it's not. If it makes you feel any better, I was called a troll probably fifty times in my first week here (especially when I didn't go lockstep with some of the community think of various factions here ... the wild-eyed Chavez fans, the really hardcore left, the "America sucks" crew, et al). Perhaps it's a kind of freshman hazing -- the DU equivalent of selling tickets to the elevator.

That said, I think yours is a good advisory to make. And personally I think it's a good associate advisory that free discussion should be encouraged where those who disagree with the premise can be allowed to state their disagreement, too.

Edited to add factions. lol

[Subdivisions]

19. Thanks, melody. I just think the meanness around here makes us

look like assholes. I tend to get emotional but I always try to understand where someone is coming from. But, once someone goes off on me, I tend to fight back hard. I could, at times, use a bit of my own advice. But I do try to remain civil...

[melody]

21. What you expressed came from a good heart

We're all human. We all make mistakes. The point is to learn from them as your OP made clear.

[sufrommich]

17. I think we probably lose a lot of people that way. It's not good. nt

[tbyg52]

20. Who was it said recently "never question motives"? Was it Biden?

Anyhow, I remembered the thought if not the origin, and I'm trying to take it to heart.

[nashville_brook]

22. yes hell, Texas Explorer. well said.

[johnaries]

23. Well said. K&R.

[NNN0LHI]

25. Spamming the board has never been a good way to meet new people and make friends around here

At least that I know of.

Don

[ExPatLeftist]

27. I agree 100%. n/t

[Fumesucker]

28. That's just the nature of online discussion..

I got called "unfit to reproduce" and roundly cursed by a sizable number of posters due to my opinions on hi fi amplifiers on a hi fi forum a couple of years ago. If people will get that exercised about the merits or demerits of a particular amplifier then politics is going to really bring out the long knives.

But I came up online on usenet political forums that make DU look like nap time at the preschool so flames bother me not in the slightest.

Just look at some of the threads about the recent bailout, people on both sides were apoplectic and hateful, not all of them but a substantial percentage.

As someone once said, "politics ain't beanbag".

[glitch]

30. If you see someone being unnecessarily rude, especially to a newbie, hit alert. I do :)

The mods are excellent here, very responsive especially to deleting any nastiness.

[1awake]

32. I tried to join DU acouple years ago...

after asking afew questions, trying to educate myself on some things.. I was told by two members this board was not a place for people wanting to be Democrats, or even most Democrats.. and that I should stop coming here and go find somewhere else. That same day, I was banned from this site. To this day, I have no idea why I was. People here were far more helpful this time around.

[Patriought]

33. Maybe it's the "argue anything" factor

I've read DU for some years now, (and not to be selfish, but I hope Mrs. EarlG has that baby soon so I can get my Top Ten fix!) and had more posts under "rooddood" than under my current name (Patriought-what a patriot OUGHT to do-I just thought that was cool)

And even though, in my own humble opinion, I thought I wrote some reasonable posts, there were still detractors who posted opposing replies. (Not being hypocritical, I've done the same- sometimes you just feel in a contradictory mood.)

But it's important to keep in mind, that no matter what one says, there will always be someone who disagrees.

FDR had enemies. So did Jesus. The most important thing to remember is that famous American who said: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend unto death your right to say it"

[YvonneCa]

34. EXCELLENT post. Civility is good. n/t

[Initech]

35. I joined in '05 shortly after Bush weasled his way to another term.

I missed the whole election coverage of '04 and '00 but I've heard stories and they weren't pretty. I thought we were supposed to be the party of respecting your fellow man. :yoiks:

[Faux pas]

36. Amen to that ! Maybe this post should have a permanent spot

at the top of each discussion section.

[lamp_shade]

37. Thanks for this post. At times things move so fast around here that it's impossible

to keep up, but when I catch a "Newbie" I make it a point to at least acknowledge their post in some way and welcome them to DU. I remember well being a newbie myself and it wasn't fun.

[newtothegame]

38. Thanks for this post

I lurked on DU for about 5 years before finally getting up the guts to start an account and post. I've been posting since the summer and have had 99.9% friendly discussions. I can only think of a couple times that were not friendly, and they do really stick out. I posted my opinion on the subject being discussed, or tried to add additional information, and was immediately blasted and made to feel ignorant and that I was "trying to get away with something." Given that these were very isolated incidents, I would not say it is a pandemic. But I would agree with an earlier poster that it seems to be a symptom of people who are more concerned with rooting out "trolls" on DU than enjoying a healthy discussion. To that I would say what's worse?: a random douschebag Repug posting his ignorance every once in while, or turning off legitimate users that can share information and contribute to the debate? Personally, I would rather let a few Rethugs post and get away with it (who really cares?) then to spend all my time "hunting" down "trolls."

Just my two cents.

GoBama.

[LanternWaste]

39. Not at all..

"...is that any reason to treat them like trolls or freepers or to be generally nasty or to viciously attack them?"

Not at all. Nor is it any justification for those precise same sins we ourselves commit on one another on a daily basis-- practicing petulant remarks and petty behavior, yet calling it "dialog".

Why limit civility to the Newbies? Let's try it out on everyone...

[newtothegame]

40. Great point Lantern n/t

[RainDog]

41. DU has a lot of self-appointed czars

who think they have the right to determine what others find appropriate to think and talk about. They are masters of a very small domain (in seinfeld speak) apparently... and maybe this is what rouses them to act as tho they may tell others what to do.

On the whole, I've found they're fairly boring and have more in common with lemmings than with anyone with anything interesting to say. sort of like high school, in other words.