Pro life and anti choice are not the same thing

[vincenzoesq]

Catholics United provides great talking points for explaining the difference to anti abortion folks.

here's the link
http://www.catholics-united.org/files/pro-life-means-all-life-en.pdf

[YOY]

1. As a Catholic I refuse to buy this crap.

So many other issues and so little relevance in the lives of those who run the church.

Until priests and nuns start fucking...they can keep their mouths shut about this and onto more pressing issues of global poverty and injustice (that they DO indeed work on QUITE well.)

[vincenzoesq]

3. That's the point of the flyer: Pro life means all life

Exactly what this is about: How can you be pro life and start a war? How can you be pro life, and not
provide health care to children? More at the link.

[VeggieTart]

7. How can you be pro-life and eat dead animals. Or wear fur.

And the Catholic folks should know that if abortion is outlawed in some states, many women may not be able to travel to where it is safe, so they'll do a back-alley abortion instead.

BTW, NARAL ProChoiceAmerica is royally incensed at McCain's behavior during the debate, when he made air quotes around the word "health" when abortion came up in the debate.

[kath]

2. Uh, HELLOOOO - did you actually read the flyer at the link?

The headline is: Pro-Life Means ACTION on Behalf of ALL Human Life

Many candidates say they’re pro-life. But do they really have a record to run on?
Here are some important facts for pro-life Americans to consider when deciding how to vote.

The BEST way to combat abortion is to give women and families the tools they need to choose life.
Studies consistently show that when women and families have health care, jobs, education, and other essential supports they are less
likely to have an abortion. In fact, more than three out of four women who obtain an abortion say that economic factors were a primary
reason for doing so. Instead of helping struggling American families, our leaders have left them to fend for themselves.

Being pro-life is 1 percent talk, 99 percent ACTION.
Being pro-life is not just about what our elected leaders say they believe. It’s about the things they do. During the Clinton
Administration, the U.S. abortion rate declined nearly 30 percent without enacting any legal prohibitions on abortion. Under
President Bush, this decline stagnated. Even the appointment of two new Supreme Court justices was unsuccessful in making any
meaningful progress toward building a culture of human life. For all its talk about being pro-life, the Bush Administration has done
very little to protect the unborn.

Pro-life means ALL human life - WITHOUT exceptions.
How can our leaders say they are pro-life, while starting unjustified wars, supporting the death penalty, supporting torture, opposing
expanded health care for children, cutting school lunch programs, and standing by as hard-working Americans lose their jobs and retirement
protections? They can’t. To be pro-life is to answer a deep call to support and defend human life at all stages - from conception
until death. It means caring for the unborn, for the children, for the less fortunate, and for all hard-working Americans.

Overturning Roe v. Wadewill NOT end abortion in America.
All too often, what passes for an authentic pro-life agenda is a candidate’s stated opposition to the U.S. Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade
decision. While legal protections for the unborn are an important part of a pro-life strategy, overturning Roe v. Wade would simply let
states decide whether abortion should be legal or illegal. In a post-Roe America, only a handful of states would impose penalties on those
who obtain or perform abortions, and women living in these states could still go elsewhere to get an abortion. Overturning Roe cannot be
seen as a substitute for policies that can work RIGHT NOW to end abortion, namely supporting women and families.

Kudos to this Catholic group for trying to talk some sense into peoples' heads.

[vincenzoesq]

4. Thanks, Kath for posting the flyer

I should have copied instead of just posting the link. Still learnin'

[kath]

8. You're doing fine. Welcome to DU.

Posting the link was fine. {whispering} - actually, we're not supposed to post long excerpts of copyrighted articles. There's generally a 4-paragraph limit or so, so I was roughly within that boundary. Plus, since it looked like it was a flyer intended for wide distribution, spreading it around shouldn't be a problem.

Anyhoo, the reason I posted it is because that other poster was spouting off against the Church in a knee-jerk way and it seemed like he or she hadn't even read the damned thing.
I was very impressed to see a Catholic group trying to get other Catholics to look at the BIG picture, of how politicians' actions affect *all* of human life, not just fetuses. It's time for Catholics, and others who call themselves "Christians", to stop being single-issue voters on abortion and get back to issues like poverty and the social teachings of Christ - issues that only the DEMOCRATS address in a "Christian" way, since the Repugs are basically greedy, hateful pigs.

[qwlauren35]

5. The connations of both "terms" are already fixed.

Choosing to redefine them doesn't change what they mean by the people who use them.

Pro-life is what people call themselves because they oppose abortion under most or all circumstances.
Pro-choice is what people call themselves because they believe that a woman should be able to choose whether to abort a fetus.

Anti-choice and anti-abortion are labels that pro-choice people apply to those who consider themselves pro-life. Although some pro-life people will accept the anti-abortion label, they don't accept anti-choice because excluding abortion leaves several other choices that a woman has once the baby is born.

Pro-abortion is a label that pro-life peopl apply to those who consider themselves pro-choice. A few people like me are comfortable with the term. I actually embrace it. It does define me. And I know that pisses people off, but I think we need more abortions, and I hate that young women and girls are shamed into carrying a fetus to term, by people who won't be there for them in 6-9 months when the baby is born.

But I understand that there is a group of people who would NEVER, EVER abort a fetus, and think that abortion is horrible, and may even think that it is taking a life, but they don't want to take away someone else's right to make that decision. These people are pro-choice, and vehemently reject the pro-abortion label.

I am sooooooo tired of this mantra of "no one is pro-abortion". Bullsh*t. I am very, very pro-abortion. I hate seeing pregnant 12 year old girls. I don't even like seeing pregnant 16 and 17 year old girls. I am not impressed by women who pop out children regularly because they won't use birth control... but have no interest in being responsible parents.

And I'm SICKENED by people who pimp their children for money, because they care so little for them.

I think abortion should be covered by Medicaid, and available in most HMO and PPO plans.

I am also convinced, truly convinced, that most white people who are pro-life don't give two shits about kids born to people of color. It is only because the number of adoptable white babies has shrunk to nothing and the birth rate among people of color is higher than that of white people that half of these people are up in arms.

When Margaret Sanger worked toward perfecting birth control, it wasn't for white people... but now that white women have embraced it, the conservatives are fighting it.

The entire situation is laughable.

Fighting abortion instead of taking care of the children who ARE born, as far as I'm concerned is one of the dumbest, most anti-survival, positions possible. It takes Darwinism and dumps it on its head. Why force anyone to birth an unwanted child? In my mind, there is a sick cruelty to this. You have a miserable mother, and an unwanted child, who may never have a loving home.

I don't even like thinking about it.

[PeaceNikki]

6. That flyer supports overturning Roe v Wade.

And it *IS* anti-choice, invades privacy and restricts access.

And for that, it sucks.

[vincenzoesq]

9. Read it again

It says that overturning Roe v Wade would NOT stop abortion, that instead, we need social changes which would decrease the need for abortions.