after last nights last debate , I have to really ask what have we got

[blues90]

I am sick of the Joe sixpack or Joe the plumber crap , it means nothing at all to me.

I get the sense that both candidates have their share of lies handed out and avoided.

Then it seems the issue of sending our children to college crops up in every single debate and speech I have heard and I really have to ask one specific question .

There are NO JOBS and to date I read endless stories of new graduates not being able to find a crappy job let alone one that pays their loans off so in reality if we don't have even crap jobs, what jobs will there be for this years grads or next years grads?

It's like putting the cart ahead of the horse in my humble view. ie , if we don't have jobs then we have nothing , parents can't work and save to send their children to college so just where does this leave this country without a blue collar job base as at the very least a start and union jobs at that so the pay is good.

I hear the same issues brought up and I hear no real plans to fix them other than it will be years down the road , well no shit , that is about the only truth spit out in these debates.

The health care system and both candidates plans will not help most people , the health care system is stacked with for profit care no matter which candidates plan is concerned yet this truth is avoided completely. Even if the plans are offered to small businesses to get the same group plan as a savings it is still far too expensive and don't forget one very important point when it comes to health care plans like the ever sorry HMO , they have a yearly cap so if you go over it which is not difficult you are stuck with the bill the goes over the insurance companies cap . No one talks about this , at least I have not heard it.

I just don't trust any politician and I am sick of all the talking heads judging the debates with their thrill boiling into insanity .

[gateley]

1. Obama has a plan that will give employers a TAX CREDIT for every new employee

they hire. That should help.

He also has plans to help small businesses be able to offer health insurance to their employees.

It's a process. We need to turn around and start heading in the right direction. We can't reach our destination overnight, especially since our journey has taken us so far away from where we want and need to be.

[blues90]

2. yes I know that , that is what i addressed in my OP

How ever there are a lot of holes and these small changes do very little to help people , that was my point which was to address the bigger no talked about picture sure as caps on insurance payout for the year and allowing small businesses to buy into the lower rates of group plans that larger companies do ofer but the cost i still out of reach for many people and this is proved that the small business even offer insurance at all . The HMO's are far to expensive plus the co pay . It is for profit healthcare.

[gateley]

4. Yeah - I understand what you're saying.

I'm thinking, though, that they are aware of the problems and descrepencies and will work toward fixing them. I haven't actually looked at Obama's plan -- does he not address caps on insurance pay outs? (Probably not.)

I haven't had insurance in over a year and half. I just had to get an antibiotic for an infection that may have resulted in me being hospitalized. Generic it was still $70. Other serious medical conditions I have go untreated and unmedicated. I honestly have a first hand knowledge of how bad it can get - but I have hope that we'll be at least starting in the right direction. It'll take time, and it'll shake itself out as we find what does and doesn't work.

I have no illusions that if McCain wins, that there is even a whisper of HOPE that it may get better for me and people like me.

[blues90]

11. I agree McCain will not do anything but hurt the country

There is really not a lot in these three debates that really address the many issues most people are facing right now.
I see Obama tried to stay away from the hit jobs and stay on issue but I still have the feeling both have their share of lies being told and we the people are left to try to sort through what they are since we have talking heads and no real news which are less than useless.

After just these last 8 years alone of the massive damage caused by this admin I just feel we need longer debates that go much deeper than the surface. Let it all hang out and if one candidate claims the other lied or said something in the past then the proof should be scrolled across the screen so the people see it and then you have the truth.

I really at this point don't think that is asking too much from one who wants to be president and take on this mass mess we are in.

I guess I am still stunned by the aftermath of the 2006 elections were we thought Iraq would end and it was not even touched other than to continue funding it yet even the Dem party asks us to trust them.

Who can we realy trust and why , that's my position.

[dysfunctional press]

14. it won't really help at all...

a $3,000 tax credit is virtually nothing comparred to the cost of a full-time employee. most economists i've heard have said that it won't do a thing to motivate companies to hire, and would just be a giveaway to those companies that are already planning on adding workers.

[dionysus]

3. aren't you the guy who vowed not to vote for obama and really can't stand him?

:eyes:

[blues90]

6. no i'm the guy who questioned all the candidates positions

I just want the truth but it was not allowed here to even raise a question about Obama , to me that is blind denial and shear ignorance .

instead of coming along questioning me so you can further your own case of ignorance , question yourself then tell me I'm wrong here asking the questions as i did in this OP where i can already see you have a problem with what i said .

If this is not the case then reply to what I asked in the OP or go away.

[dionysus]

8. yes, i must be "ignorant" because i remember you bashing obama constantly through the primaries.....

sorry kucinich didn't win buddy....

:rofl:

[blues90]

9. why is there alway a jerk like you to come along and point fingers

Look , the primaries are over as I have been told time and time again and this is what you are dragging up so what is your purpose and your point here. And don't call be buddy .

You are here only to wave your flag and point fingers , is there a point to it , what has it got to do with my OP or should I do like you and dig up old posts and point out things you have said ? Excuse me if I choose not to just jump on your political bandwagen and take things said here at face value and I look into things before I make a statement.

Be the first to be on my ignore list so many here are proud to hind behind .

You are just one of those gutless clones who get off on nothing, one who never makes a point , get a life .

[dionysus]

16. it is spelled "bandwagon", and that "bandwagon" happens to be the democratic ticket...

:rofl:

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. A lot of people I know are looking at it as the first step. That better choices like

true single payor gov't health care will come later after this change.

[blues90]

7. no one is talking single payer health plans

So what makes you think they will be lead to in the future?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. You? Not Satisfied? Pshawwwww.... I Don't Believe It.

:sarcasm:

[qwlauren35]

12. No jobs??? Not true.

Last I checked, McDonalds and Walmart are hiring...

There is a huge gap between good paying jobs and low paying jobs - Many of the good paying jobs require a SPECIALIZED degree.

Three easy examples: doctors, nurses, teachers. To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a shortage.

Two more: engineers, chemists. The two groups that must exist in large numbers in America to tackle our energy issues, from designing energy efficient cars to improving bio-fuel synthesis to addressing nuclear waste storage issues.

Ironically, there is an alternate group of people who may not choose to go to college, but must apprentice: electricians, plumbers, mechanics, carpenters. These are people who MUST exist in America. These aren't jobs that can go off shore. But you have to be willing to go through the training. While college may not be "necessary", a business degree can't hurt.

We need people who can maintain our computer infrastructures. Again, special training required. Physically maintaining computer hardware is another job that can't get shipped overseas. Someone in India cannot be expected to resolve a computer crash at a Citibank office in North Dakota.


Now, think about what happens to America if the next generation doesn't have the opportunity... or interest in these jobs. Two words: we're f*cked.

Preparing our next generation to be willing to undergo training and/or specialized higher education is necessary. Our young people suffer when they fight against building a portfolio of employable skills. But it happens. And as a nation, we will suffer if we don't have a critical mass of people in each generation who want these jobs and are willing to train for them.

Thanks to Bart Simpson, we have a LOT of people who are anti-education. As far as I'm concerned. It's a big problem. I really hope that WHEN Obama wins, he will tackle this problem/crisis.

You're absolutely right. Giving young people the financial ability to go to college doesn't mean sh*t if they won't do what it takes to get in and get through.

[blues90]

13. what i meant by college was there are many who have graduated

but cannot find work and are forced to take the Mc"ds jobs provided they can find them so all their work is on hold plus they have a loan to deal with.

Then there are grads each year who face the same issue.

When you consider how the trades have gone down the drain like the building trades because of home building and repair these people are hurting along with the suppliers of the products used to build and the entire community who depends on these dollars to keep their doors open.

Yes auto repair is there however I know this industry very well having worked in it for 33 years and it's not close to what you might think as far as a wage goes. You might pay $85 per hour but the tech doing the actual work gets a wage based off of an hourly rate ,ie what the actual repair pays by hours. Same with the service advisor gets a commission based on the job sold , no car to write and repair no one makes a dime and it is constant beat the clock.

Who knows where this will all end up. Still many jobs and parts are shipped over seas or made over seas which includes most parts and tools. So we still lose a lot of what we did have. It is no longer "you can always fall abck on a trade".

[Fumesucker]

15. Young people aren't stupid...

They watch the adults around them retraining for the second or third time for another field after the field they were originally trained in is offshored or H1Bed and they realize that in many cases schooling is not anywhere near as productive a use of their money and time as they have been led to believe.

Look at the scientist who isolated the bioluminescent gene, the guy is highly skilled and yet is driving a courtesy van for a car dealer for $10/hr.