doesn't it seem like a hybrid vehicle should get A LOT more than 20 mpg city?

[hiphopnation]

they new Cadillac Escalade Hybrid gets 20 mpg city, so the commercial says. Knowing very little about cars, or hybrids, only studying the mpg of NON-hybrid cars when recently purchasing a new vehicle, why does 20 mpg for a hybrid vehicle NOT sound too impressive to me? is it because it's an SUV? what does a prius get in the city? seems like a jip to me, but maybe i'm wrong...

:shrug:

[DemoTex]

1. I get 46-48 mpg in the city in my 2007 Prius.

I can count on 50-54 on the highway.

[Trailrider1951]

18. Yup, me too

Would be more, but I have a lead foot! :P

And I STILL get tailgated by those humongous SUVs and Pickups! Must be Prius envy! :evilgrin:

[Ashy Larry]

2. It's because its an SUV.

A normal Escalade gets about 12 mpg city, 19 highway.

[Debbi801]

43. I get 32-33 MPG in my Ford Escape Hybrid...

I love it.

DH has a Prius, but I wanted something bigger to schlep all the kids stuff.

[camio]

3. The Escalade "hybrid" is a total farce.

It's there to make people feel like they're doing a good thing by buying a 'hybrid' vehicle.
It's total bull.

Infuriating bull.

[magellan]

4. I don't know if that's the same ad I saw on tv the other day

...but I was appalled by the 20mpg being advertised like that was something terrific. My first question was, what the hell kind of mileage does the NON-hybrid version get??

Our jeep gets better mileage than that hybrid.

[SmileyRose]

5. I think the regular version gets about 8 mpg

So hybridizing it would more than double the gas mileage for city driving. While some people will rethink their status car purchase, the market for these vehicles is here to stay. Making the one's people do buy use half as much gas is only a good thing.

[Oregone]

10. "the market for these vehicles is here to stay"

Who cares about market demand. Isn't it about time to ban these fuckers for non-commercial drivers?

We let the market decide the best solution for everyone for too long. This "solution" isn't cutting it. Thats when it is time to intervene.

[SmileyRose]

27. If our experiment with democracy has taught us anything

it's that banning does not work. Your best solution to modify behavior is to make it most advantagious for people to buy something other than an SUV.

[Oregone]

34. Our experiment with democracy sucks

People suffer for uber freedom, as long as that freedom can fetch a corporation a buck. Meanwhile, you cant protest in the name of our little "democracy" experiment outside a free speech zone. Some freedom, eh?

Rich and arrogant assholes do not care about buying advantages. SUVs (like Hummer's and Escalades) are lifestyle statements, which proclaim to everyone else how rich and lavish their life is. They will pay, despite what advantages you provide. Just like crazy assholes will buy 50 caliber rifles if you allowed them to do so, to make them feel good about their lack of a penis (some things we do ban, when we realize the alternatives are too frightening or dangerous for a "market" to regulate).

The environment is at stake, as well as our economy (being that fuel demand/dependence can raise prices of fuel, and everything that depends on it). We don't have time to play around with an "experiment anymore. Its time to grow some balls and tell the corporations that produce these guzzlers, "No".

[SmileyRose]

55. I disagree that an SUV is any more dangerous to the planet than

900 gazillion other things humans are mixed up in. I understand it's a pet peeve for many, but the goal should be to convince people to reduce their overall footprint on the planet. Incentives, negative and positive, will encourage quite a lot of those guying gas guzzlers to rethink their purchase. Yes, a few won't budge, anymore than a few won't stop buying RV's and go back to packing the tent in the back of the Chevette du jour either.

As a matter of fact, I drive an 8 passenger huge ass SUV - and nearly always there are a minimum of 6 people in my SUV, most of the time we have the full 8. We average about 2.1 gallons of gasoline a week each to get to work and back. We often make the grocery, box store run on the way home and save each other that extra trip. Plus we are getting 4-6 other cars off the road morning and night rush. Just think of how many new lanes of freeway we don't have to build if more people would pack in a gas guzzlers instead of one person per sedan that maybe gets 5MPG better than my SUV. A minivan will not work for me because we off road almost weekly for a variety of reasons, often to volunteer in maintaining our state parks. A minivan does not sit up high enough to get where we need to go hauling materials to fix pedestrian bridges over streams etc. Now, if you see me on the rare occasion alone in my big ass SUV you'll probably come to a judgement about how I don't give a squeeze about the planet. You would be wrong.

You cannot judge every owner of an entire class of vehicles by a couple of select over the top offenders vehicles, nor by the minority who are "rich and arrogant asshole owners". The fact is, there is a proper and good use of SUVs. Encourging ownership by only those who actually use it for it's intended purpose, plus pushing to make them as friendly to the environment as can be done should be the goal.

People are NOT going to spend 3 hours getting to work every day and 3 hours getting home on the public transit. But if we could get people to carpool in groups, heck even if it meant hiring those little 10 or 12 passenger minibuses to cater to where that group wants to go, front door service on each end then you'd be getting A LOT of cars off the road. And trust me, those suckers are bigger polluters than my SUV. You have to look at the total picture.

I know someone who owns 2 priuses and a scooter, but lives in a 10,000 sq ft house. Only 2 people. Sure they made the thing as energy efficient as they could, but they tore down a perfectly good bungalow that needed some TLC - they burned up fossil fuels in the creation of all their new stuff, they burned up fossil fuels building the new house, they burned up fossil fuels to tear down and truck off the old house, they burn up more fossil fuels running the new house compared to what a renovated old house would have been. Their carbon footprint on the planet came out to be 7 times what mine is when we both did the initial LiveEarth challenge.

But hey, they own Priuses so their good to go right?

[Telly Savalas]

46. If someone thinks it's advantageous to drop $60K on a vehicle that gets shit milage

then they're totally nuts and it's not real clear what incentives would make them change their mind.

Banning specific vehicles seems rather draconian though. Having aggressive CAFE standards would achieve the same result with less government nitpicking.

[Bjorn Against]

51. Democracy is not and never has been about the right do whatever the hell you want to the environment

To suggest that democracy is about allowing people to drive SUVs trivializes the entire concept of democracy. Democracy is about the right to vote, democracy is about the right to free speech, but democracy is not about the right to drive a gas guzzler.

[jmowreader]

31. There are better ways than an outright ban

There's probably a way to do a good mileage-based gas price adjustment system--if you average 20MPG the price of gas is a, at 30 it's b and so on until you get up to about 65mpg which is moped territory.

When Harry realizes that Joe over there with his Malibu pays $1.50 less per gallon for gas than Harry does for his Suburban and burns less of it to boot, Harry might decide his penis is just fine the way it is.

[Oregone]

39. If destroying our environment is suppossed to be a "moral" issue...

Why is it permissible to do so as long as you can pay to do it? Does that work like a penance? Should rich people have more of a right to do something than poor people?

[jmowreader]

45. Well...

Legislating morality doesn't work very well.

If you want to get rid of the SUV you do it on several fronts, bearing in mind that SUVs will always be with us. If you came up with a "SUVs are only for commercial users" law, a LOT of "businesses" would start. You know that as well as I. All you'd need to do is to break an Amway kit and you'd be able to keep your car.

Here's how the plan I envision would work.

First, you require the petroleum marketers to charge five dollars a gallon for fuel--unless the wholesale price goes up, and then the retail price does too.

After about three days, the people would demand Action Be Taken to get the price of fuel down...and then you introduce the All American Gas Price Savings Program. Everyone needs to write down the odometer reading at every fueling. The gas station attendant, or the store's computer system, subtracts the last fueling's odometer reading from the reading for this time to get the miles traveled, and divides it by the gallons used to come up with the MPG for this fill-up.

20MPG or less--no discount
Every 5MPG more after 20--25 cents per gallon discount
Every 5mpg more after 40--50 cents per gallon discount
65MPG or higher--gas sold at cost

If a store had old mechanical pumps--some still do--we could have little $5 calculators preprogrammed to do the math.

Rich people hate paying list price for anything, and having to pay $5 per gallon for gas when they could trade in the Escalade for, say, a Prius and pay a LOT less for their fuel would really irk them.

I also think having famous people trade in SUVs on national TV, requiring them to run commercial (read: more expensive) plates and other measures to be thought up as we go along would help.

[hobbit709]

17. And that's downhill with a tailwind.

[ddeclue]

6. consider the curb weight...

It's a monster that's why it only gets 20mpg. Consider that 20mpg is still considerably better than a normal escalade. I used to have a 4x4 3/4 ton p/u and it got 12mpg.

If you want good gas mileage:

Go small
Go diesel
Go manual transmission
Go hybrid
Go aerodynamic

Doug D.

[SheilaT]

50. Manual transmission! Yes! Yes! Yes!

I drive a manual, and only a manual, and I hate it when I need to rent a car because they only have automatics. How absurd!

I'm 60 years old, and I've decided that when I can no longer operate a clutch and shift, it will be time for me to stop driving.

Oh, and when my sons' friends (sons are 21 and 25) ride with me, they think it's so cool that I drive a stick.

[tridim]

7. It's just more lipstick on a pig. What a joke.

IMO 20mpg vehicles should even be legally sold today.

[Liberal Veteran]

8. You are obviously thinking of a gas/electric hybrid instead of gas guzzler/tank hybrid.

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. Expected Pricing: Mid-$60,000s

Now, what does that tell you?
Me? Plenty


http://www.newcartestdrive.com/sneakpreview.cfm?ReviewID=170

[hiphopnation]

13. jesus, it better wash my laundry

and drive itself for that price

[Telly Savalas]

49. Who's the target market here?

A person who's concerned about the environment, but has to have an SUV for whatever reason, would be much better served by a Ford Escape, which gets over 30 mpg.

And the sort of person who's so irresponsible with money that he thinks wasting $60k on a vehicle is a good idea probably doesn't give a shit about the fuel savings the hybrid option brings.

[gravity]

11. Because it is a huge vehicle

The bigger the car, the more energy it takes to push it meaning more gas mileage.

Part of the reason the Prius is so efficient is that it is a small aerodynamic car.

[anigbrowl]

12. It's laughable, isn't it...kinda like 'hybrid tank'

But it's pretty obvious that big SUVs like that are sold as sex magnets rather than because anyone needs to fit 17 kids into the back.

[BlooInBloo]

14. "Hybrid" is not synonymous with "magic".

[hiphopnation]

16. i heard someone mention recently that they can make hybrid vehicles

that can get 100 mpg on the highway. can't remember where i heard that.

i'm not expecting magic, i'm certainly not going to buy one of these monstrosities, i was just curuious if 20 mpg was supposed to be impressive.

[Schema Thing]

15. Actually, that's a pretty good improvement.

It would be nice if everyone would drive a small car, but until that happens, let's take improvement where we find it.



And since big vehicles use more fuel to start with, what looks like a relatively small improvement mpg-wise, is actually a substantial savings in terms of percentage of fossil fuel used.


Just think how great it would be for 18 wheelers to get even a 30% bump in fuel efficiency. Some of them likely soon will, using hybrid tech.

[Ichingcarpenter]

20. 7 passenger Citroen C4 Picasso- 35mpg gas-$30k-40k

The diesels get around 42mpg.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/rt/citroen/c4+picasso/942/8

[LeftyMom]

29. Mazda sells something similar in the US.

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=modelsMain&vehicleCode=MZ5&providertag=MazdaSEM&servicetag=NationalMazda5&sem=1&s_kwcid=mazda%205|1084232323&bhcp=1

If they dropped a hybrid in one I'd sell a kidney on the black market to get it. As-is, it's pretty close to the top of my list of cars to replace the LeftyWagon when it finally gives out.

[Dr.Phool]

25. Yes, it improved from horrendous to just plain atrocious.

I don't think that's the idea.

And GM wants to merge with Chrysler? Change the name to Bottomless Pit Motors.

[Lifetimedem]

19. I drive an SUV/Dodge nitro

a mid sized SUV...I get 20 in suburban /city driving and 24 on the thruway short hauls. I would guess 25/26 on a long trip

[whistle]

21. In Florida all gasoline has 10% ethanol added and since using ethanol based gasoline my

...mpg has dropped by at least 15%. Where I used to get 28mpg hwy and 21mpg city my new mileage experience for the past 8 to 0 months with ethanol based gas has dropped to 26mph hwy and 17mpg to 18mpg city. About 75% to 85% of my driving miles are in and around the city while my open road city to city driving is 15% to 25% during any given month.

If this is the case I am in fact using more gasoline for the same miles I drive and thus sending more pollutants into the atmosphere.

Why then is gasoline being adulterated when there is a negative pollution result?

[flvegan]

26. Yep, I've lost 10% of my mpg as well.

[johnaries]

28. I haven't noticed a drop in mileage. Some people I know say they have

but only a slight difference, nowhere near 15%. It's more likely other factors are involved, like maybe you need a tune-up or check your tire pressure - or both. Or maybe you even have water in your tank.

But there is no way you can have a 15% drop with only 10% ethanol. It's just not possible.

[whistle]

32. Interesting, I found this here on the internet...

<snip>
The one difficult intricacy is that E85 fuel will give you lower fuel mileage. In a car that would typically get 20 miles per gallon, you might get 16 or 17 miles per gallon on the E85.

An October 2006 report from Consumer Reports studied the fuel economy of a 2007 Chevy Tahoe, a flex fuel vehicle that can operate on E85. The study found a decrease in fuel economy for all categories.

"Overall fuel economy on the Tahoe dropped from an already low 14 mpg overall to 10," the report read. "In highway driving, gas mileage decreased from 21 to 15 mpg; in city driving, it dropped from 9 mpg to 7."

The report also found that the fuel tank of a flex fuel Tahoe depletes sooner than that of a non-flex fuel Tahoe.

"It (Consumer Reports study) found that it (Tahoe's driving range) decreased to about 300 miles on a full tank of E85 compared with 440 of gasoline," the report concluded. "Motorists using E85 would have to fill up more often."

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_drop_in_MPG_is_expected_with_15_ethanol_gas



...and then there is this article:

<snip>
Minnesota Gasoline Sales Drop 9% in July, E85 Sales Up 16%
25 August 2008
Retail sales of gasoline in Minnesota in July 2008 declined 9% compared to sales in July 2007, according to figures from the Minnesota Department of Commerce. As gasoline sales declined, the amount of ethanol-based E85 sold during the same period increased by 16%.

Minnesota motorists bought 211,982,582 gallons of gasoline in July, compared to 233,081,981 gallons last July. To-date, E85 sales are approximately 16% greater in 2008 than they were at this time last year, with monthly sales of averaging roughly 2 - 2.5 million gallons a month. There are an estimated 200,000 flex fuel vehicles in Minnesota, with approximately 350 stations in the state currently selling E85.

The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) estimates that in June (the most recent month for which data is now available), Minnesotans drove 4.9 billion miles, a 4.1% decrease from June 2007.

A year ago, I don’t think anyone would have predicted Minnesota could achieve a trifecta of fuel conservation, increased use of mass transit, and increased sales of cleaner-burning alternative fuels in the middle of what has historically been the peak driving season. Since vehicle exhaust is the single largest source of air pollution in Minnesota, the positive impact of these three elements coming together can't help but improve air quality this summer.

—Robert Moffitt, communications director for the American Lung Association of Minnesota
The American Lung Association of Minnesota is accepting grant applications from fuel retailers who wish to add an E85 or biodiesel pump to their station.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/08/minnesota-gasol.html

[Selatius]

38. Yeah, I've lost mileage as a result of them recently adding ethanol into gasoline here.

I used to be able to get 25 in city driving in my 1995 camry. Now, it's dropped down to 20 or 21.

[johnaries]

41. You're not using E85, you are using E10. BIG difference. nt

[AdHocSolver]

53. Adding ethanol to gasoline increases the profits of the agribusiness corporations.

You are correct. Adding ethanol to gasoline reduces mileage by 10 percent and increases pollution by a like amount while NOT saving any oil.

However, it increases the profits of agribusines, oil companies, and Middle East oil producers and that is why it is done.

Ethanol was originally added to gasoline back in the 1990's as a smog reducer to replace MBTE which was getting into the water supply and is a carcinogen. Since it reduced gasoline mileage, your car burned more fuel, so ethanol didn't reduce pollution at all. When you add in all the oil that is used to produce the corn for making ethanol, the whole process is a net loss for the environment and the consumers. However, it is done for the same reason that every asinine practice is done: it is good for corporate profits.

As early as ten years ago, and as late as last year, I calculated gas mileage obtained by using ethanol treated gas versus straight gasoline in various vehicles that I owned. In every case, mileage suffered with ethanol treated gas. Ten percent added ethanol reduced gas mileage by ten percent.

This year, none of the gas stations where I had previously purchased nonethanol gas sells it anymore.

[gollygee]

22. My minivan gets a little better than that and isn't a hybrid

I'd say if I were spending the money for a hybrid, I'd expect better mileage than that.

[hiphopnation]

23. well this is my exact thought

i guess the market for escalades must think that 20 mpg city is INCREDIBLE!
just unbelievable

[spinbaby]

24. Ironic, isn't it?

Gas economy in a vehicle whose sole purpose is to demonstrate that you can spend $70,000 on a car.

[middlegrounder]

30. Hybrid cards should be mandated

We are wasting too much time in finding renewable resources. Meanwhile, the earth gets hotter and hotter.

[spanone]

33. and they have a proud commercial too. it's absurd

a hybrid escalade is an oxymoron

[demokatgurrl]

35. Absolutey. There's something wrong with this

I have a Mini and it gets 36.5 mpg on average, mixed highway and city.
My husband has a Prius and he gets 50 mpg minimum, 60 on a long trip.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. Nothing Wrong With It At All. It Gets More Than Double The Regular One. That's Huge.

It should be applauded.

[dysfunctional press]

36. a non-hybrid escalade is rated at 12mpg city- so 20mpg is a 66.666% improvement...

seems like a pretty major improvement in mpg.

[Canuckistanian]

37. I laughed out loud when I saw the words "Escalade Hybrid" on the TV

That's almost as absurd as a battery-electric Hummer.

[liberalpress]

40. Actually

I freeze-framed and I think that's the miulage for the regular Escalade. The disclaimer goes on to say official mileage measurements have not yuet been released.

[WheelWalker]

42. Toggle the switch that reads, "ECON".

[WindRiverMan]

44. I live in the country and have a pickup, it gets 18 mpg in town, 24 on the highway?

Escalade must still be way too heavy.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. When The Non-Hybrid Gets Like 8 MPG, Then It's A Very Good Improvement.

Any time you can more than double the fuel economy of ANY vehicle, that's something that should be applauded.

[hiphopnation]

54. maybe so

it just seems like they would be able to boast a whole let better than 20 mpg for a hybrid vehicle. but again, that's from my very thin understanding of what mpg number can be expected from hybrid vehicles. it just seems like a low standard to set... it's double the fuel efficiency of it's prior incarnation, but it still seems low, esp. for a hybrid.

[ferrferr]

52. Those type of hybrids are a damn joke.

A "hybrid" suv.... it's a total oxymoron.

We got 41 MPG average in our Prius for our last tank (we actually had 2 bars left, but after running out of gas once we don't take chances anymore). So I'd say almost if not right at 400 miles on that tank. Our Saturn Vue got 20 MPG average.

[Dorian Gray]

56. My non-hybrid

gets about that. (Acura RDX)

But the Escalade is a gas guzzler, so that's pretty good for an Escalade.

[bobbert]

57. I get over 30 in the city in my non-hybrid Yaris