Does anyone remember that long discussion we had about whether 'monkey' was a racial slur?

[proud2BlibKansan]

It was a couple months ago. Most of the people in that thread argued that monkey is not a racial slur. There were a few who insisted it was and it became one of those long threads that went on for too long.

Anyway I was reminded of it when I saw this posted:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x212861#212861

A guy brought a stuffed monkey with an Obama sticker on it to a Palin rally and it is captured on film. Most DUers in the above thread (and a couple more threads) are outraged by the racial slur.

So I just wanted to congratulate those of you who get it, monkey is a racial slur and the idiot freeper in the above video proves it. It's good to see DU change on this topic.

:applause:

[JI7]

1. i don't remember that thread

i always thought it was well known to be a racial slur.

[Wetzelbill]

2. same here

Don't remember the thread, always thought it was a well known slur.

[itsrobert]

9. Me too n/t

n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. LOL where were you that day??

It was a nasty thread. There were only a few of us who insisted it was a slur.

I am glad that most DUers get it now.

[taterguy]

4. It all depends on the context

There's nothing racist at all about the Pixies song Monkey Gone to Heaven.

I think.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I hope we can agree that a monkey with an Obama sticker at a Palin rally is a slur

[taterguy]

19. You're avoiding the crucial issue:

What do you think of the Pixies song?

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. I have never heard it

Sorry

[taterguy]

83. If you were sorry you would listen to the song

How much trouble is it to type a song title into Youtube?

:eyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRrTl2J2w8

[Clovis Sangrail]

6. like most things it's contextual

I've known more than 1 woman who refers to her own children as monkeys.
For years I've use the term monkey to refer to incompetence or flunkies... in a reference to how monkeys - actual monkeys - would perform a task.

Not everything is about racism but if you're determined to you can read it into just about anything.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. And the guy at the Palin rally

Do you think that reference to monkey was a racial slur?

[Orrex]

10. He probably brought it because he couldn't bring his kid, whom he affectionately calls "monkey"

:eyes:

[jonnyblitz]

13. oh for chrissake NOBODY denies the Palin rally monkey guy

was being a racist. the point is you provide NO CONTEXT or link to the past monkey usage/thread you were referring to so we can see if it was used in the same way, especially if you claim most thought the usage then WASN'T racist. THAT makes me believe you are being slippery with the facts here and that the contexts are different.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. I can't find the thread but here is an article about the incident discussed in that thread

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2008/04/09/news/doc47fbc660775b3660606477.txt

[Clovis Sangrail]

14. yes /nt

[Orrex]

8. Do you refer to African Americans as monkeys?

If not, why not?


Indeed, not everything is about racism, but "monkey" is a charged word with a history of racist associations. The fact that some people refer to their own kids as monkeys is irrelevant. Heck, I frequently refer affectionately to my kids the same way, but I'd be a fool to think that I could describe my neighbor as a monkey without it being perceived an implied racial epithet.


Exception: if Earth is being invaded by renegade angels or non-mammalian aliens, then it is permissible for those angels or aliens to refer generally to humans as "monkeys" or "apes."

[Clovis Sangrail]

16. I don't and it's because I understand context matters

you occasionally referring to your own children - but not your neighbor's - as monkeys shows you understand context as well

[Orrex]

17. Well, that's kind of my point, as well as the OP's

I believe the complaint was that some on DU refused to accept that "monkey" is ever used as a racist slur.

[Clovis Sangrail]

21. the OP said monkey IS a racial slur... not that it *might be

my point was that just because somebody uses something as slur doesn't mean that same word or phrase is always a slur.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. Yes that was my point - thanks

[stoge18]

22. Sure, but....

You've got to consider context and intent. Do you think the man at the Palin rally brought the monkey because he thinks Barrack is a cute lttle monkey? Monkey (and derivatives) is 100% derogatory in this context. It suggests that people of color are primitive, unrefined, a few steps below ordinary man on the primate growth chart.

It's a word that should be used with extreme caution.

[conscious evolution]

34. The irony in it kills me

The people who use monkey as a slur because it suggests one is lower on the evolution scale are ,usually,the same people who don't beleive in evolution.

Sometimes freepers make my head explode.

[stoge18]

38. Yes!!!

It is quite ironic, isn't it. There's a lot the freepers just don't understand. I'm related to one (a freeper, not a racist) and am always astonished by her beliefs. I believe it all comes down to a small picture vs. big picture view of the world.

[slackmaster]

29. I prefer "ankle-biters" for children

Which is the same epithet a lot of people use to deride annoying small dogs.

If the shoe fits...

[LanternWaste]

80. True that-- Context is essential in understanding.

True that-- Context is essential in understanding. My ex-girlfriend used to call me "monkey-face" after she saw it used in an old Cary Grant film (he called his new bride monkey-face).

[Trillo]

11. So do you mean to say that when people refer to Bush as "chimp"

It's in fact a racial slur?

[stoge18]

24. No.

Calling Bushie a "chimp" is a knock on his intelligence. In the vast majority of cases, everything is fair game with blue-blooded, privileged folks like W. The chimpanzees of the world would likely argue otherwise. I feel for them.

[Trillo]

27. Premptive insult notwithstanding, monkeys seem to have pale skin.

One must wonder if the phenomenon under discussion is not in fact racism, but is instead a type of color-blind disparagement, due to the errors with which the insult is said to be used. If some see the name as racist when applied to a human, then perhaps that is the mirror through which they see the world, a racist one.

One must wonder what educators mean when they tell us we're all evolved from a common ancestor to the monkey, that the monkey and ape are essentially cousins of humans. Is that essentially meant as a "color-blind" disparagement to the entire student body? Oh, right, it's a statement about their intelligence, as they haven't yet evolved to staff-level yet.

And, last but not least, some people seem to deliberately call black folks monkeys as a racial slur. Given that monkeys have pale skin, I guess the joke is, ultimately, on them. It seems they're projecting.

[stoge18]

37. Interesting commentary

One must also wonder how many racial epithet spewing folks would flat out deny any common source of ancestry between mand and ape. But back to the discussion at hand... It would be interesting to trace the history and evolution of the term "monkey" as a racial slur. When and in what context did it enter our vernacular? Perhaps the Oxford English Dictionary addresses this.

The insult in a racial slur context goes well beyond skin color. However, skin color is the catalyst. The term, when used as a dispargement, only takes on racial overtones when it's directed at a person of color. This is true whether the disparager's intent is racially motivated or not. We must chose our words carefully.

[Igel]

78. And here's the flaw:

"The insult in a racial slur context goes well beyond skin color. However, skin color is the catalyst. The term, when used as a dispargement, only takes on racial overtones when it's directed at a person of color. This is true whether the disparager's intent is racially motivated or not."

There are only two important perspectives in an act of communication: Intent and perception. Both involve context, and both are part of the context (at least in principle).

Some value intent over perception: They are in charge of their words and their meanings; they should be careful not to say things that are going to be, by context, considered offensive (unless that's their intent). But that only works because expectations of the other person's perception is part of context, which is true, *in principle*. Lots of times the other person's perception isn't known, isn't taken into consideration, or the "other person" wasn't the target of the communication at all.

Some value perception over intent: They are in charge of what others' meanings; they should be careful not to interpret things in ways that show ill-will or bias unless that intent is clearly present, because that is both offensive in itself, and reduces the chance of further communication. However, the other person's intent, likely meanings given other parts of the context, is often ignored or simply not known and often judged immaterial, even though it's part of the context, *in principle*. While a speaker must, ideally, carefully choose his words, the listener must also carefully choose how he construes the speakers words. There's always time to be offended later; once a listeners settled on being offensive, becoming *unoffended* is a much harder task.

It must be said that listeners have a lower conscious cognitive task placed on them than speakers do, but use that relative freedom to subconsciously perform a wide range of pre-processing tasks--having all sorts of other words and associations activated in order to speed up on-line processing, as well as the more conscious processes of doing things like looking for inferences or trying to fill in gaps in argumentation or puzzling over unclear words. Some of this is conscious; much isn't. But it means that the listener, in impromptu speech, has a slightly higher need for showing good will: Speaker dysfluency is accepted, although "listener dysfluency" seems to be the rage ... but it's more difficult to identify and study; moreover, the speaker often has less information about the listener than vice-versa, esp. in impersonal settings, and often a speaker is speaking to more than one person and couldn't take all the people's prejudices and attitudes into account even if he want to (increasing what amounts to a kind of obligatory functional dysfluency, discourse across multiple group boundaries at once).

In American discourse--in any discourse that shows a lot of ill-will and in/out-group dynamics--there's often little attempt to choose words carefully when speaking to your own group, even if you make a good-faith effort in out-group communication; however, there's seldom any attempt to try to understand the speakers' intent. When our side doesn't choose words carefully, the other side is being unreasonable and fails to show understanding; when their side doesn't choose words carefully, the other side is being unreasonable, at the least, if not intentionally offensive. We "get it" when we can justify our side; we deny "it", in principle, when we can vilify the other. This is pernicious, even if it is often partisan and serves clearly to label the "other" as somehow alien and evil, even subhuman. Look at discourse here: If a DUer slips up, immediately there are people ready to pounce on him because he *might* have intended something freeperish, and therefore the assumption is that he *did* intend it, unless he can prove otherwise. In other words, perception trump intent. "Mutually construed meaning" be damned, "I'm the decider" and will dictate how your meaning's to be construed.

[stoge18]

82. well done

Everybody on the board should read this post. If folks are unable or unwilling to read the entire post, I'd recommend they at least read the opening sentence and closing paragraph.

I wonder how perception is influenced by mode of delivery. For instance if we watch a debate on television, I suspect we perceive it differently than if we listen on the radio or read a transcript. Body language, facial expressions, tone & tenor are certainly components of intent. To what degree are they also cues for individuals perceptions?

Is there a point at which intent is so overt that errors or miscalculations in perception are lessened to the degree that perception is no longer a factor?

[Clovis Sangrail]

84. good post /nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. Only if he was African American

But I think you know that. :eyes:

[PA Democrat]

12. My husband reminded me of a scene from the movie "Remember the Titans"

in which a white football coach refers to the black coach played by Denzel Washington, as a "monkey".

It is indeed a very commonly used racial slur.

[Clovis Sangrail]

20. is slant racist as well?

I understand that calling a person a 'slant' is racist... but does that mean we can't use the word anymore?

"I don't trust that slant" referring to an asian person and
"I don't trust that slant Faux news puts on everything" are very different statements.
(though I suppose Faux might employ an asian person to literally sit on their news copy before they read it)

It's all about context.

[PA Democrat]

23. Who is saying the word cannot be used?

Of course it is about the context, and a monkey doll with ab Obama sticker is undoubtedly a racist statement.

[Clovis Sangrail]

43. really?

I agree that is was racist in the case of the guy at the McCain rally you're referring to.

but is it still undoubtedly racist if it's sitting on the shelf of a primatology research assistant who supports Obama?

[PA Democrat]

53. What's your deal? I am agreeing that context matters.

Are you looking for an argument?

[Clovis Sangrail]

57. you've got some cognitive dissonance happening

either that our you forgot to put in something to qualify 'undoubtedly'.
You can't make blanket proclamations about what people must mean and then say context matters.

(emphasis mine - words yours)

a monkey doll with ab Obama sticker is undoubtedly a racist statement

I am agreeing that context matters

A monkey doll with an Obama sticker on the shelf of a primatology research assistant who supports Obama is not undoubtedly a racist statement.

[PA Democrat]

70. LOL.

How about this?

The monkey with the Obama sticker in this specific case(for added emphasis for the argumentally inclined) is undoubtedly a racist slur.

Or, how about this variation?

A monkey doll with an Obama sticker held by a McCain Palin supporter is undoubtedly a racist slur.

So, you win because I was admittedly sloppy in wording my response. Feel better now?

BTW, I think the person in your example is most likely not racist, but is exhibiting a certain amount of racial insensitivity. It's often difficult to determine where insensitivity ends and where racism begins. Many people will claim that they are NOT racists but will continue to make statements that others interpret as racist. People who continue to make such statements, even after they have been told that their comments are offensive, will be viewed by many as racists.

[PeaceNikki]

44. The OP is also referencing the Obama delegate who

told children to "stop climbing the tree like monkeys" and was forced to step down. Some/many believe that this context was NOT racist.

This thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5430296

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. No one is saying that

Yes I believe we can still go to a zoo and say "Oh, look at the monkeys".

[Clovis Sangrail]

55. actually the OP said exactly that

So I just wanted to congratulate those of you who get it, monkey is a racial slur and the idiot freeper in the above video proves it. It's good to see DU change on this topic.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. I believe it takes a bit of critical thinking to understand

that a racial slur is only a racial slur when you are referring to a person who is different from you by using that racial slur.

[Clovis Sangrail]

61. so n*gger isn't a racial slur if used between people of the same color? o.0

it may be a case of somebody 'owning the term' to remove or ignore its negative connotation - but it's still a racist slur (in any context).

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. I think it is a matter of how it is perceived by the person being referred to by the slur

As I said upthread, my African American friends told me they feel that monkey is a slur. So I won't be calling them monkeys.

[Clovis Sangrail]

72. wise decision.. but your terminology is distorting the issue a bit

I think walking up to an African American and calling them a monkey is going to come off as racist in just about any context I can imagine.
A monkey doll coupled with an Obama sticker might be racist but it really depends on the context.

- those are very different things


It very likely was racism in the case of the McCain supporter caught on tape (maybe it wasn't intended that way and then he realized it would likely be perceived that way.. the video shows he obviously figured out something was wrong with it).

It's not such a sure thing in the example of an Obama supporter who happens to be a primatologist.

It is a matter of how it's perceived.. at least partially.
If you recognize that you must realize not everybody perceives things the same way.
(or there would be no point to DU's existence)
What you perceive as racist may or may not be considered racist by somebody else.

I think the preponderance of people thinking something is racist does tend to indicate that it really is racist... but that it doesn't always make it so.
Intent is just as important as perception.

Many hardcore racists strive for people not to perceive acts as racist - when in fact they are.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. If you told me you find it offensive for me to say or do a certain thing, I would not

That keeps it simple. I think it is a waste of time to argue whether or not it is offensive. I also think it is wrong for people who are not African American to decide what is or is not offensive to African Americans.

[Clovis Sangrail]

76. it's wrong for *anybody* to decide what is offensive to somebody else

think about it...
I didn't claim that an entire ethnic group should find a particular act offensive because I thought it was.
You did that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. I wasn't accusing you of anything

Sorry if you took offense.

My point is that if an African American says it is offensive, then I will refrain from saying it. But I don't believe a person who isn't African American has the right to decide what is and is not offensive to African Americans. And I am not making this decision; I have been told many times by African Americans that monkey is offensive. And that's why I said it is offensive.

[depakid]

15. That was before McCain showed himself to be the lower ranked monkey

Now it appears that monkey is in. LOL.

"I think people really are missing the point about McCain's failure to look at Obama. McCain was afraid of Obama. It was really clear--look at how much McCain blinked in the first half hour. I study monkey behavior--low ranking monkeys don't look at high ranking monkeys. In a physical, instinctive sense, Obama owned McCain tonight and I think the instant polling reflects that."

So McCain may have given away his status as a low-ranking monkey. I'd never even considered monkey rank.

Late Monkey Science Update: In case anyone's wondering, I looked up TPM Reader TB's page at the University he teaches at. And no doubt about it, he appears to be a genuine monkey scientist, or to be more specific a researcher on social cognition and behavior in primates. I'd link to his page. But readers remain anonymous, save for their initials, until they tell us otherwise.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/220226.php

[EFerrari]

18. That's funny! I'd forgotten about that. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

25. I don't recall it, but I can easily conceive of its existence on DU.

[trof]

26. I hadn't seen this clip. Here's the one at another thread.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/10/palin_rally_attracts_monkeydol.html

In that clip he looks sheepish and decides maybe what he's done isn't as cool as he thought it would be.

Here's the comment I made on the other thread:

I can actually read the guy's mind.
"I'm SO damn clever. I bet they'll all think this is really funny.
See? The monkey is Obama. Hahahahaha. He's a monkey, see?
Um...don't y'all think this is funny?
See? The monkey is Obama. He's a monkey.
Don't y'all get it?
This is really funny.
Hunh.
Nobody's laughin'.
I thought this would really be great.
Uh oh. Somebody with a camera.
Um...maybe not.
Maybe I'll just slip this bumper sticker back in my pocket and hope nobody saw me.
Hey kid. Want a nice monkey doll?
Yeah, it's yours. You can have it.
Free.
Sure go ahead.
Who me? heh heh
Why, nothing?
Heh heh."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7415717&mesg_id=7415717

[Clovis Sangrail]

63. LOL that could have been scrolled underneath and it would have fit *perfectly /nt

[slackmaster]

28. Of course it's a racial slur, but the credibility of criticizing it as such has been undermined

...over the last eight years by all of the people who relished in equating George W. Bush with a chimpanzee.

People who monkeyize Obama can rather reasonably claim that turnabout is fair play. You and I both know they are really racists, but people crying "foul" over the Monkeyization of Obama are bound to fail the neutral observer test. Most people can't be bothered to consider the deeper racist historical context of associating African-American people with our simian friends. Most people are too young to remember when overt racism was sanctified by law.

Heckuva job there, all you mavins of Bush-Is-Chimpdom. Heckuva job.

All humans resemble apes and monkeys. That's why we love them.

[lonestarnot]

30. I think bushitler changed that didn't he?

[alfredo]

31. Remembering my youth, I remember the old southern racist using

the monkey designation.

[lonestarnot]

33. I saw a thing just last night on the TV re a black man being offended by a sock money gift by some

bimbo, so yes, can be racial due to history.

[alfredo]

36. Those were such ugly times. I wish Palin/McCain hadn't dredged those

bad memories.

[Edweird]

32. I think context is important. I'm an "overpaid knuckle dragging bucket monkey" according to my boss.

That has everything do to with me being an overhead lineman and exactly *ZERO* to do with race.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Are you African American?

[Edweird]

59. No.

But just because some douchebag puts an Obama sticker on a stuffed animal doesn't mean *EVERY* use of the word 'monkey' is offensive.
Monkey business - Racial slur? I don't think so.
Monkey bars. Ditto.
Monkey wrench. Ditto.

I understand the outrage of this incident. That particular usage was a slur, no doubt about it. But you can't suddenly decide to remove a generally innocuous word from the language based on a few bad usages. Much like you can't condemn a whole class of people based on the behavior of a few assholes.

What about DU screen name "MonkeyFunk"? Is that racist?
I can think of a few Du'ers that have monkeys for their avatars. What about them?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. It's All About Context. No One Would Disagree With It Here. DU Didn't Change At All On The Topic.

You simply cherry picked an obvious example of when it is racist, and are using that to bolster an old argument in which it wasn't used in such a way. What's the point? This example proves nothing and it doesn't in any way show progression or different mindsets as it relates to the term. In fact, the concept behind the OP is quite silly.

And what thread are you referencing? Are you referring to the thread about the delegate that told the kids to stop climbing the trees like monkeys? Cause if you are, that makes this even more silly. That was 100% not racist. So it all definitely depends on context.

[lonestarnot]

39. I think it stems from this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=212861&mesg_id=212861

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. I Know Where This Thread Stems From. I Was Talking About The Comparison Thread.

[PeaceNikki]

41. That's the one we all agree on

Here's the other one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5427997

Or this one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5430296

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. Tell you what

Go into an African American neighborhood and tell some kids who are playing to quit acting like monkeys.

Then when (if) you get out of the hospital, tell us all about your experience.

And, BTW, IIRC, that delegate lost her delegate position as a result of what she said. So you don't have to agree it's a racist term, but obviously enough people feel that it is to prove the point I was making in my OP.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

52. Ahhhhhh, So That Was The One You Were Referencing LOL. That Was 100% NOT Racist.

To compare this incident as if they're comparable is beyond silly. And to say that because people agree that this recent incident is definitely racist, means we've grown since the other incident and now see how racist it truly is, is friggin hilarious!

Yes, this one is definitely racist. No, the one you were previously mentioning wasn't racist in any way whatsoever. Proof that it's all about context.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. But she did lose her delegate position

So your opinion is inconsequential. Apparently enough people believe it is racist that it cost the lady. And BTW, every African American I was brave enough to ask about this agreed that monkey is a racial slur. And I am choosing to respect their opinion. What I think - or anyone else who isn't African American - doesn't really matter. If they feel offended by the term, it's offensive. At least that is the rule I have always operated on.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

67. She Lost It Because A Bunch Of Irrational Zealot Morons Made Enough Of An Issue About It.

But the fact that so many morons made it that big of an issue doesn't in any way lend credibility to the ridiculous and ignorant notion that the statement was rooted in racism. It wasn't. Period.

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. You are in the minority

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4222017&mesg_id=4223094

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4222017&mesg_id=4222051

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4222017&mesg_id=4222374

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4222017&mesg_id=4222925

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4222017&mesg_id=4223023

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

73. I'm In The Majority, And Your Links Show Ignorance.

I have agree fully that the example in the OP is racist, as are the examples in every link you posted. But that's not what we're disagreeing on, is it. No, it isn't. What we are disagreeing on is the thread you used for comparison, about the kids climbing the tree. In that SPECIFIC example, there was NO racism involved whatsoever. None.

So to use those threads you just linked as evidence that I'm somehow wrong and in the minority, is completely ridiculous and a sign of how you aren't grasping this simple concept whatsoever. It's as if you were trying to imply that I wouldn't believe the examples in those links are signs of racism, which would be monumentally dumb. Try and stay focused will ya? We're talking about whether or not that children in the tree example was racist, and it wasn't. We're talking about how sometimes the term can be used in a non racist manner, depending on context. All your examples above show is that it can be used racially, which is a huge fucking DUH to anyone here. But I'm in the overwhelming majority when it comes to the children in the tree example, since any rational minded clear thinking person would likely agree that there was no racism involved in that whatsoever.

[PeaceNikki]

71. The same zealots who let a trustee remain

after he BEAT HIS WIFE WITH A FUCKING BASEBALL BAT!

Yeah, they're reasonable people with priorities. :eyes:

[Wiley50]

42. My Racist Repuke older brother keeps emailing me monkey pictures

since I told him I was voting for Obama.

I ignore them.

And I pretty much ignore him too, but that's nothing new.

Like most repukes he's obnoxious and considers it funny.

[johnaries]

58. Racists have a long history of comparing AA's to monkeys.

At least here in the South. I was in Jr. High when bussing began and racial tensions were high. I am white, and I remember many reactions by many other whites. I heard them all.

I had many AA friends from elementary school, and it was so bad we were afraid to talk to each other in public. I remember race riots almost daily on campus, until they brought in police to patrol the halls and confiscate weapons (including at least one shotgun and a machete - don't ask me how they managed to hide those!).

So, yes - I can attest that comparing an AA to a monkey definitely is a racial slur. I personally heard it used many times.

[SmileyRose]

60. That button would qualify as a racial slur, but "monkey" would depend on context, IMHO

My sister always called her children her little monkeys. Pure love on her part and she kindof inherited that lingo from my grandma. Now, we grew up in a northern US suburb that was white people central. Asking someone how the little monkeys enjoyed the summer is absolutely acceptable and even cool. However, one quickly learns after moving into a more integrated part of the world that asking how the little monkeys enjoyed the summer is so quickly misconstrued into racism on par with personally lynching said children, that one loses their job, becomes the hated racist in the neighborhood, and is generally shunned. It was VERY painful lesson for my sister, mostly because while she does struggle with prejudice here and there, she is FAR from anything that can be construed as racist.

[carlyhippy]

62. I guess "monkey" would be a racial slur if you called a rabbit a monkey

sorry, just being silly, I will go clean house now....

I wouldn't even think anything about a monkey stuffed animal with a obama sticker on it, I guess I don't pay that much attention to detail...but seeing it was at a Palin rally, it more than likely was a trashy stab, what is wrong with those folks? Tasteless.....

I used to call my kids monkeys when they were little, and I grew up in the south. When I think racial slurs, I think of the N word, which is the ugliest word ever.

Edit: after posting I watched the video in question...what an idiot, yep that was a racial slur in action, disgusting old man claiming to be a Good American.

[ismnotwasm]

64. Of course it's a racial slur

I absolutely don't understand people who ignore or are ignorant of not only racism, but the history of of racism. Maybe I understand because I was raised by white parents who thought nothing of using every racial slur you can think of. My parents understanding of race did evolved, and changed with the times---to certain extent.

On a progressive board, I've always been a bit shocked at some of the arguments about what constitutes racism, or the justification for certain slurs that seem so clear to me. The Uncle Remus threads after the "tar baby" comment are a case in point

Anyway, for the undecided, trust me on this, I was raised by racists, who were raised by racists. "Monkey" or
Ape" when referring to a black man is extremely racist with a well defined history of being racist. The intent at these disgusting repuke rallys is racist, and that is really all the definition of the word you need. There should BE no argument.

McCain as late as 2000 used the word "gook" publicly. Anecdotally, Palin was overheard referring to Alaskan Native American's as "Arctic Arabs", and other slurs are attributed to her.

These are not enlightened or even evolved, like my parents, whites. These people are racists. Again, what's to argue?

[Paladin]

65. I Told A Guy At Work I Was Volunteering For The Democratic Convention.

He asked me if I was going to help the monkey or the organ grinder. I haven't spoken to him since.

Never, ever doubt that the term "monkey" is a racial slur of infamous, longstanding use in this country....

[LibDemAlways]

68. Using a term meaning "monkey" derailed George Allen's

2006 Senatorial bid and ultimately his WH amibitions. Yes, it's a racial slur.

[timtom]

74. I use the term "monkey-boy" when referring

to the so-called POTUS. I have used it while talking to black people. I believe it is clear that it is free, in that context, from its racist connections.

[kath]

79. Reminds me of the "porch monkey" scene in Clerks 2 - friggin' hilarious.

"I'm takin' it back"

Wanda Sykes was so good in that scene.
Which makes me think of Wanda Sykes on Letterman a week or so back -- OMG was she funny! It's on YouTube, and worth watching a few more times...


Oh, and BTW, "monkey" IS a racial slur.

[mulsh]

81. Monkey is preferred on Stormfront over N...

went to Stormfront, the premier white supremacist forum, a couple weeks ago. most people were using Monkey rather than any of the other standard racial epithets. If these guys are so superior why do they have to brag about it so much?