Many DUers in near panic. How about some countervaling optimism? Anyone have any?

[Stinky The Clown]

Sorry ..... thread headlines are sometimes too short to convey one's meaning. I am not in any way mocking or criticizing anyone who is fearful about the financial meltdown. We all studied the same Great Depression and still see its folk lore, its reality, and its artifacts in our everyday lives .... and many of us have/had Depression Era parents. It is very real to most of us.

My point in this thread is for anyone who sees a positive aspect to this to weigh in now. I'm vacillating between white hot anger and fear, myself. A bright note would be most welcome.

[slackmaster]

1. I think I am going to save a bunch of money on car insurance next month

And the weather here in San Diego is nice.

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. The market will only go down to a certain point - and we're just about at that point.

It's the point at which the stocks all become priced low enough that they actually become a good investment potential again, and the market will start coming back up.

[TornadoTN]

5. Not to be a downer, but I'm not sure we've hit the bottom yet

That's the problem - trying to figure out where the bottom will be.

[slackmaster]

9. Not even the greatest minds of the Dismal Science can tell you now where the bottom will be

That will only be revealed after the fact.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. I disagree. This is a fundamental game-changer.

Goods are piling up at the ports not because people are worried about the stock market, but because forwarders can't get the lines of credit they need to bring them inland to the grocery stores.

You're whistling in the dark.

[TornadoTN]

45. You've hit the nail on the head, although it's just one aspect of it

Long story short, my industry exports a great deal worldwide. We are seeing some major issues, especially overseas, when it comes to securing the financing and funds for logistics and transportation.

So it is indicative of a very deeply rooted problem.

[evlbstrd]

3. I'm ahead of the curve.

I lost everything last year. It's very liberating.

[TornadoTN]

4. Well, a lot of stocks are going to be really good bargains soon

At that point, there will be nowhere to go but up!

[stubtoe]

41. Blessed are the bottom feeders

... for they shall scoop up cheap stocks.

After the fear, the greed will return. Look to Warren Buffet, he tries to be greedy when everyone else is fearful.

[TornadoTN]

44. There are a few indicators that some stocks (particularly in energy) are nearing bottom

If they haven't already - specifically in coal and clean coal technologies. I purchased some this morning in a particular company in that industry and it has gone up from the price I bought it at. Of course, that's just one mornings worth of data and I'm still not convinced its has hit bottom overall, so my investment was very tempered.

I think the overall market has not reached the bottom, but some industry segments, most notably energy, should begin seeing a stabilization.

[drm604]

6. I'm no expert so take this with a LARGE grain of salt.

But if you look at Asia and Europe, and at today's wild U.S. gyrations, way MAY have hit a bottom. I think it all depends on if they can get credit flowing again, and they're desperate to do anything they can to fix that.

[demnan]

7. As long as I have a good job I'm ok

my retirement fund has 15 years to recover. But things are slow here at work and business has been off.

[slackmaster]

8. I'm in the same boat but with hopefully only 10-12 years until I quit working full-time

It's going to be a rough ride for a while. Hang in there!

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. The country is taking a lurch to the left

the country... the world is lurching to the left

Neo Liberalism is quite dead

Though its fans are still going, let the hand of the market place... yada, yada, yada

They even sound like the let it burn crowd here... but more hysterical... since they see their precious theory failing

[Nite Owl]

11. On the positive side

any repuke who wants to privitize Social Security will be laughed off the platform. It might help with passing healthcare reforms. Hopefully conservatism as we know it is dead. It's a chance to change everything and we got the right person in Obama to do it.

[slackmaster]

13. Good point

Thanks for that observation.

[lumberjack_jeff]

35. At this rate, I see the IMF and the World Bank ordering us to do it.

... as a contingency of a bailout package.

[SammyWinstonJack]

46. They can get bent!

[HamdenRice]

12. I'm optimistic that a "super-empowered" Democratic administration will begin to handle the crisis

If you need a little optimism about what could happen, read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4204299&mesg_id=4208994

and this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4209612&mesg_id=4209612

[LiberalEsto]

14. Fear is the mind-killer

to quote from "Dune" by Frank Herbert

I think the Bastards-in-Charge want us to panic, maybe even riot, so they can call in those Northcom troops and install martial law.

I'm not going to make it easy for them. I want to try to keep my head and focus on the positive, doing what I can to help Obama and Biden win the election.

I trust them to do what's necessary to put our economy back on a sound footing. I want to see a new New Deal to get Americans back to work, along with a repeal of tax cuts for the rich, and imposition of heavy windfall profits taxes on oil and gas companies. I want to see universal health care.

I don't know enough about economics to understand the crap happening on Wall Street, but I think at least some of it is being done on purpose to destroy the middle class.

Let's all take some deep breaths and focus on what we can do now: work on the election.

[Old Codger]

15. Hmmm

I don't know if this helps or not , but overall, in the long run the stock market has always gone up. BUT, that only works for people who have time to wait it out. Personally I have lost quite a lot in the last few months, and I am already retired, maybe if I am fortunate enough i wil live long enough to watch Obama's plans come to fruition and we will all come out the other end in good shape both fiscally and mentally. This TOO Shall pass...

[ixion]

16. Optimistically, we've moved beyond the ponzi scam and are in the process of healing

of which this is a part. As painful as it may be, it was necessary, and we'll be better off for it once it's straightened out.

[lovuian]

17. this is the time to know Who you are

You are not money
You are Beautiful Powerful and are Free
The sun will rise tommorrow and set today
the world goes on

Many people thought WWI and II that things would be gone forever

Not so

We are in an exciting period of time
Be Happy
I believe that people will WAKE UP from the illusion that Wall street and money define them


It doesn't
These men want control of us and if we give them the power over us then shame on you

don't give into panic and sadness
pinch yourself and think about who you are
you will realize your a precious gift and revel in it

these times Great Love shines we are in the best of times and the worst of times

[jojo54]

18. Even though Countrywide's employee stole our personal data,

we just refinanced with them, lowered our term from 20 years to 15, and went from 6.25% to 6.00%.

That's a good thing as there's no way in hell, the house would sell in today's market.

[slackmaster]

20. I got that letter from Countrywide too

By all means sign up for the free subscription to Triple Advantage. It's a pretty cool service, but not worth the normal $120 annual fee IMO.

[jojo54]

38. Already did.

But thanks for the concern.

[Sheets of Easter]

19. What's the fun in that?

I swear, I've seen just as much fearmongering here as is doled out by the Right.

I'm optimistic, because that's all I got. It's a great coping mechanism.

[customerserviceguy]

21. We're going to get back to basics

People are going to learn to appreciate the homemade things. My ex sister-in-law and her husband had a farm, and I still cherish the knit cap that she made me out of llama wool that came from her own llamas. She sheared, cleaned, and carded the wool, spun it into yard, dyed it, and knitted a cap that is warm, attractive, and still fills me with the wonderful feeling I had when I first saw it on a Christmas morning.

We're going to go back to bartering and trading with each other, rather than buying poisonous Chinese made crap at Wal-Mart. We're going to go back to trading vegetables with our neighbors, and supporting local farmers who come to town. We're going to get back to ways of having cheap fun where people get together and play board games, or have potlucks with home-cooked dishes, and we're going to get to know our neighbors again.

The modern consumerist society has robbed our children of the good things our grandparents took for granted. We will regain them once more.

[slackmaster]

25. I sleep better at night knowing there is a milling machine in my garage

I made some money several years ago when I was between jobs, by participating in a neighborhood cottage industry making some aftermarket parts for motorcycles.

Drilling for Dollars!

[customerserviceguy]

43. I'm hoping to put a homebrewery in my garage!

Even if we live in the cities or the suburbs, there are ways that we can create for ourselves the things we have been buying.

[Warpy]

22. If you're not frightened, you're not paying attention

What we're facing is a total meltdown of financial institutions worldwide. We knew it was coming, we just hoped we'd be pushing up daisies by the time it got here, just like the GOP hoped they'd be safely out of office.

No economy founded on debt is going to work long term. It is simply magical thinking to try to make it work. Yet this is all the GOP and the Wall Street Democrats are capable of right now.

What we know for certain right now is that relying on the old way of doing business is not going to work in the future. If you adapt, you'll survive.

Every change brings opportunities after the initial loss. We are going to be in a world of suck for the next few years and some of us will likely not make it.

However, nothing lasts forever, not even depressions.

[LSK]

23. not panicked, still in the anger mode

For the past 8 years or so.

[unpossibles]

24. I do

I think as much as this crisis sucks, it is causing a lot of people to wake up and ignore the rightwing attacking points. Sadly, a lot still fall for it, but they would never vote D anyway.

[PBS Poll-435]

26. I am excited about our future.

The crooks have been exposed.

[PATRICK]

27. As one who has

not lost a penny from my thrift savings plan, I guess optimism might come easier. The government plan for postal workers and other government emloyees and military was under assault early on in the Bush Captivity years, trying to pry loose control of the conservative risk funds. Thanks to wise analysis here and ion Democrats.com I put all my investments into the G fund, secure but tiny return index. I didn't want to return to the temporary war profiteering and GOP rape profits. Social Security also dodged the bullet in the same way that on 9/11 the last plan did not succeed in wiping out Congress.

The harder and faster and more complete the Grand Disillusion the better, because a slow grinding, in denial, same result scenario in the hands of more competent but in complete denial world leadership would be worse at least for one reason. Climate change is hitting with all worst scenario speed. Cockeyed fantasy optimism that entitles mediocre and entirely selfish, un-compassionate leadership and entirely corrupted information I am certain relates in exact proportions to the future victims and the degree of possibility of eventual extinction. Suffering does not teach perfectly or ennoble the victims or wise up the leadership. Main points are missed as easily as the chief culprits catching the planes to the Swiss Alps or Bahrain. Yet their power has been cut loose from the overwhelming inertia of public docility and myth. They must be cowards, must be stupid, must be greedy even in the spotlight purposely devoid of rational commentary.

Hot anger is better than nostalgia, inertia, despair, complacency and other servile symptoms of doped up shared fantasies. What we still don't have is an acceptable national forum, empowerment of talents for service, democracy, or even a foggy substitute for simply patching the tattered raiment of the status quo.

The corporate papers and capitalist minions(a minority leading the public by the nose) joke or bemoan socialism as they scoop up civil government coffers with NO intention of offering people even a discussion of changing the capitalist system in this period of opportunity and the usual failure of Great Vice. That can change, like the climate, more swiftly than they will ever allow you to freely believe. We should intend that this hope and opportunism for the future, for hope, for the best of the human race this time seizes the moment as far as it possibly can and put the worst down as abysmally far as they can possibly be forced and not just make sick deals as we thought we were forced to do, say to win WWII, for example. Decapitate rogue capitalism and give the coup de grace to its inevitable decay. If the rogues are too firmly rooted in aspects of this "faith" system sustained ONLY by human deference, the roots can be cut if they are pretty dead already.

Despite all the quick switch from arrogant wealth to populist rage, the real battle lies ahead, changing the social mind(not from above) and having the courage to accept that it can adapt new models for the common good- as the first priority after mere survival. No one has even woken to the threat nearly accomplished but for overreaching and stupid bungling enabled by equally stupid appeasement. Seeing that go down hard first is a sign of hope, but only hope. Hope in mere humanity will not always be as comforting as a good idiotic myth, but it enables people to begin coping with mere reality.

[Geek_Girl]

28. Maybe prices will drop

Prices need to come down in housing, food and consumer products. If you can hang on to your job or get a job you may even come out ok. I really feel for the folks that are living off of retirement or are planning to retire soon. My mother lives with me I pay all the bills except cell phone and lawn service including food. She pays for her car as well from her Social Security. I'm not too worried about her. My dad I'm a little worried about he is a small business owner and my in-laws don't seem to be doing that well financially and I most worried about them.

It's going to be hardest on the older generation I think.

[Jello Biafra]

29. I've been learning how to trade the Forex market

With the wild swings the euro, yen and dollar are experiencing....there's a lot a money to be made there. I'm almost ready to starting trading.

[lumberjack_jeff]

30. "Aside from that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?"

That which doesn't kill a person makes him stronger.

There is no reason to believe that this financial crisis will be less severe than the depression.

That said, the country has the skills to recover from it. It will take a decade at least, it won't look the same when all is said and done. My fear isn't really economic, it's all just pieces of paper, it is solvable. My real fear is the destabilizing effect of worldwide collapse. As a nation, we made a conscious choice to invest our tangible wealth in military superiority. It's our only trump card.

For some reason, I'm reminded of Eric Idle, nailed to a cross singing...

[a la izquierda]

31. Not to brag, but my money...

is going crazy far down here in Mexico. I think that's bad for the dollar, or the peso...I'm not good with this stuff.


However, I am not afraid. Pissed, but not afraid. I am not in danger of losing my job (grad student), nor is my husband unless he willingly quits. My IRA has lost more than $100 since last quarter, and I only had $695 from the previous quarter. But I won't retire for 35 years, so why be freaked out. We do not own our home, so while there is a lingering concern in the depths of my brain about an eviction not of our own doing, we don't sweat it. I'm a bazillion dollars in debt to the government on account of student loans, but they will get paid when I graduate. We live a comfortable life, albeit in two separate countries at the moment. My mom's retirement is safe, after hard lessons learned in the 9/11 aftermath; my dad is a bit worried because he works for Merrill Lynch, but he can't stress every day.
I am sad that my grandparents are going through this. Again. They grew up in the Depression. This must be nightmarish for their generation.

I do, however, demand something new. If Obama won't bring it, I'll be supporting someone who will in the future. For now, I'm praying and hoping that when I return to the US in January, my country has righted itself.

[MadinMo]

33. Whether it is part of the grand scheme of things or not, gas is going down.

It is $2.61 at our local WalMart gas island and $2.64 at other stations (SW Missouri). This is a bright spot in all the gloom and doom, I think!

Mr MadinMo filled up his vehicle and some gas cans, and also filled up on diesel ($3.79). The price may continue to go down, but it seemed like an opportune time to "stock up" now.

[Cronopio]

34. Gas prices are getting down to near-rational levels again.

That's a *big* shot in the arm for the economy, especially if it continues.

Even with the US dollar devaluation, investments based on dollars are still the norm around the world. That's why America won't be in the situation like Argentina. If it gets its act together, or even if it convincingly telegraphs an intention to get its act together soon, the US economy has the ability to recover much faster than most countries, and all countries will benefit. The trade deficit is improving.

In the long run, the system is stronger when fake valuations are excised from it. In the short term, it sucks. Even Ben Stein (the vacillating idiot for hire) is beating the re-regulation drum these days. So better times are ahead.

[TreasonousBastard]

36. Regardless of tinfoil theories that someone wants all...

this to happen, it seems to me that no one wants this to happen, and pretty much everyone with any influence at all is working overtime to get things back on track.

Major adjustments take place periodically, and right now we seem to be having too many taking place at the same time. However, it's money that's the problem at the moment, with serious credit problems. Unlike the 30s, we still have the capacity to grow enough food and make enough stuff.

Banks have money-- they are just afraid to lend it. Other lenders have money left over even after the market crash, but they are also hesitant to lend it. This can't go on forever and capital will start to work again. One of the few economic laws that works in the real world is that money seeks the highest return, and sitting on it returns nothing.

It's bad loans that are at the bottom of this liquidity problem, and they will be sorted out fairly soon. We'll all take a hit on them and build things back up.

If history is any guide, the root problems of how we got into such a foggy financial mess will be identified and laws and rules will be passed to solve the problems. The problems will remain solved for about 10 years until the financiers and Wall Street Journal say there are no problems so regulation should be discarded. And we will then start this nonsense all over again.

[greguganus]

37. I can quit thinking about retirement. What a load off my mind! n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. ...

:spray: So can a lot of us, I am afraid.

[zeemike]

39. Perhaps this will start a conversation about radical change

In our economy.
Like stooping trading of stocks altogether and returning to what stocks were intended to be...which is an investment in a company in return for a share of the profits.
And a usury law that limits interest that is charged for any loan.
And a return to business not relying on loans to make payroll or buy invatory...Which is a failure of business to have a operating fund.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

40. Maybe an end to blatant excesses, McMansions, Hummers and bling.

[conscious evolution]

42. Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga

Repeat after me-

Ooga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga WoogaOoga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga

Feel better now?

[alfredo]

48. I've been poor and hungry before, I survived it. I can do it again. I

have lived off the land. I know how to build simple shelter, I know wild foods, I know how to take care of myself.

BTW, salamanders only live in the cleanest water (caution still recommended). The Oak trees with rounded leave produce nuts that are not as bitter as Black or Red Oaks.

Black Oak


White Oak


Red Oak leaves are like Black Oak, and their acorns are not as good as White Oak acorns. You have to leach out the bitter tannins to make them edible, but if you need a good source of protein, acorns will do the trick. Google "eating acorns" and see what it's all about.