Re: Trig Palin..Something is very peculiar...

[truth2power]

I've been viewing a few recent McCain/Palin rallies on YouTube. One from the past few days -- Sarah at the podium and Bristol in the background, holding the baby.

From the first time I saw him, up until the present, that baby. never. moves. He always seems to be in a deep sleep. Almost like a coma, even. He doesn't twitch, doesn't startle when there's a loud noise, doesn't even stir when Bristol changes her position or when she shifts his weight as one would normally do with a baby as hefty as he appears to be.

Isn't he about 6 mos. old by now? Yes, I know he has Down Syndrome, but it's not my understanding that children with that condition are in a persistent vegetative state. I know of Down Syndrome individuals (adolescents) who are functioning in a general high school population (although on an MRDD track, or whatever the current designation is. I don't mean to offend anyone, here).

My point is, what is going on with this child? Do they have him drugged? Why isn't he interacting with his environment, looking around, moving? Something! What's going on? I wonder if anyone else is puzzled by this.

[Mira]

1. Though I second the observation...I want to PRAY

that a few short weeks from now we will never ever have to give these weird people any more thought.
A customer of mine said today, quite unexpected:

I would not let that woman in my house.

I loved it

[SammyWinstonJack]

10. Hopefully that family will go back to Alaska and stay there. What a nightmare they are.

[garlicmilkshake]

18. Apparently Betty White said what we're mostly loathe to...

"she's one crazy bitch..."
:rofl:

[RadicalTexan]

31. That video would be he-ere:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxL7MKsGoPo

Saw it, sat up in bed.

[garlicmilkshake]

36. LOL..........thankya mucho

:D

[Athletic Grrl]

41. Betty rules!

Long live Betty!

[ryanmuegge]

2. Maybe Bristol was doing some of her brother's drugs during her first pregnancy.

[Fumesucker]

5. Their favorite "drug" is alcohol

Which just happens to be the single leading cause of preventable birth defects in the USA.

[polichick]

6. According to the National Enquirer, Bristol did plenty of her own drugs.

[leftofcool]

3. Some Downs babies are partially blind and some are partially

deaf. Since we don't know the severity of the downs, we can't say he should or should not be moving as other babies that age do. There are many levels of Downs Syndrome as well there is Rhetts Syndrome which is by far a worse case.

[KamaAina]

24. Rett's is not related to Down's at all

Rett's syndrome is considered a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, which puts it in the same family as autism and Asperger's, though far more disabling.

Also, Rett's affects girls exclusively, so that's ruled out for Trig.

[NMDemDist2]

4. according to a medical web page

Some babies who have Down syndrome have poor muscle tone. This makes it harder for them to learn to roll over, to sit up and to walk. Physical therapy can help with these problems.

http://familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/children/parents/special/birth/339.html

[Blue Diadem]

7. All I can tell you is what my Mom told me about my older sister.

She didn't hold her head up until around 6 months. She didn't sit until she was close to a year. I think she said she was 2 before she walked. That was 50+ years ago though. Now the Dr's respond quickly with therapy if a child shows delayed muscle development.

[FedUpWithIt All]

27. Sad thing is that this baby will most likely NOT be getting that crucial early care on the road.

Thing like physical therapy and other types of developmental aid would be extremely difficult to maintain given Sarah and Todd's schedules.

Rather sad.

[CTyankee]

8. I have to say I don't really want to know anything more about this family

or their problems. I do not wish them ill. I won't do that because it is bad karma, but I just don't want to hear about them and their "issues." I am certain that they can deal with them as well as they have dealt with them in the past (er, well, maybe that's a problem, but not mine). I am retired. I want Sarah Palin to leave me alone. I do not wish to hear from her ever again. Thank you.

[life_long_dem]

9. Maybe the poor kid has suffered massive hearing loss

from all of the noisy campaign events. Maybe he is no longer bothered by the noise. Who knows?

[dhpgetsit]

11. Very possible.

I have a nephew who is micro cephalic. This results in seizures.
The give him meds to control the seizures, and they believe it helps his mental ability. They say every seizure causes a delay in his mental development. The drugs do seem to make him drowsy.

[KatyaR]

12. I've had those same thoughts myself.

I don't know much about Down's Syndrome and I've never been around Down's infants, but I would think there would have been SOME sort of reaction at the convention at least--that was a big crowd and pretty loud, especially for an infant that young.

But then you look at the way everyone seems to interact with him--they manhandle him around like a sack of potatoes, and Palin's way of patting him on the back and comforting him looks like she's never held a child in her life. There's probably not a lot of interaction going on there, so maybe he's not getting much in the way of stimulation.

It's a sad mess, all around . . . .

[Daphne08]

13. As a mother, I really hate the way they pass that poor baby

around at political rallies.

[tblue37]

35. Piper, the 6-year-old, always seems to end up holding or carrying him around--

and she isn't a whole lot bigger than Trig is!

[ferrferr]

42. I notcied this after the VP debate.

I have a large 1 year old myself, and I cannot imagine having let my baby get handed to another rather young child like that.

[ginnyinWI]

47. just think of all the germs at a rally.

I'd leave that baby with a reliable caretaker back in Dogpatch if I were her.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

14. Off the subject here... but I can hear dear Sara saying,

(regarding the exorcism or whatever that was with the witchdoctor dude) "I did not have hex with that man" Heh.

[truth2power]

15. Thanks to those who offered possible explanations...

It's a matter of curiosity to me. Although I fervently hope tht Obama is elected and we no longer have to hear about these people.

[RollWithIt]

16. Downs Syndrome babies aren't all the same... Downs can manifest in many ways....

Problems with downs include:

Low hearing
Low eyesight
Poor muscle development
Poor emotional development

Also, many Downs babies will sleep through just about anything.

I'm sure a doctor could explain a lot more than I though.

[truth2power]

20. I understand. So the individuals I see

at the high school level, some of whom are being successfully trained in various aspects of restaurant work are higher functioning.

[SmileyRose]

39. Forgive me

It's actually Down, not Downs. And yes, someone had to correct me too, in spite of the fact my brother has Down Syndrome. I just learned it wrong to begin with. :) :)

[kath]

44. As I said in another post a few weeks back (not to you specifically):

Quit obsessing about the damned possessive - it's still used in the names of LOTS of other diseases
with eponymous names, and in the UK Trisomy 21 is still called Down's syndrome.

This from a previous thread:
That's generally true in the US (no possessive), but not in the UK.
"In 1975, the United States National Institutes of Health convened a conference to standardize the nomenclature of malformations. They recommended eliminating the possessive form: "The possessive use of an eponym should be discontinued, since the author neither had nor owned the disorder."<59> Although both the possessive and non-possessive forms are used in the general population, Down syndrome is the accepted term among professionals in the USA, Canada and other countries; Down's syndrome is still used in the United Kingdom and other areas.<60 " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome


"Many medical conditions and diseases have been named after a person; this type of name is called an eponym. There has been a long-standing debate in the scientific community over whether or not to add the possessive form to the names of eponyms. For quite a long time, there was no established rule as to which to use, but general usage decided which form is acceptable. So you saw both possessive and non-possessive names in use.
In 1974, a conference at the US National Institute of Health attempted to make a standard set of rules regarding the naming of diseases and conditions. This report, printed in the journal Lancet, stated: "The possessive form of an eponym should be discontinued, since the author neither had nor owned the disorder."(7) Since that time, the name has traditionally been called "Down syndrome" in North America (note that "syndrome" isn't capitalized). However, the change has taken longer to occur in Great Britain and other parts of Europe" http://www.ds-health.com/name.htm



It's not clear to me why people make such a BIG DEAL about the name here. We still use the names Hodgkin's disease, Parkinson's disease, Crohn's disease, Huntington's disease, Paget's disease, Kaposi's sarcoma, Asperger's syndrome and on and on.

Yes, that 1974 or 1975 conference said to drop the "'s" in eponymous disease names. But more than 30 years later, "Medical journals, dictionaries and style guides remain divided on this issue". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_eponymous_diseases


So chill, y'all. I'm not sure we need one or more posts in *every single thread* about someone with Trisomy 21 quibbling about the darned "'s".

Yeesh.

Get. A. Grip.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7078820#7081971

{on edit -- didn't mean to sound harsh to you, but back when everyone was obsessing about Palin's family (and when I originally posted the above), the whole "Down" vs "Down's" thing came up about a brazillion times. Either usage is okay.}

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. You really need to get a life.

[Fran Kubelik]

19. Enough. Leave the kids alone.

[truth2power]

22. I have no idea what you mean...

I asked a reasonable question about what I considered an anomalous situation. I didn't ridicule Trig or his family. Others offered possible explanations for what I've observed. We learn by questioning.

Aren't you ever curious about things that don't seem to make sense?

[spotbird]

25. It seems that if the Palin campaign

uses him as a prop, they can expect his unusual development will be noticed.

[Fran Kubelik]

30. Sorry - I think I was reacting more to the other comments in the thread,

...and not so much your OP. I apologize for jumping down your throat.

[Blue Diadem]

26. I really don't think the OP meant any harm

It's how people learn about the various physical and mental challenges some people face. My sister was born during a time when people whispered and pointed and didn't ask questions. I'm happy that we've come this far that people feel comfortable enough to ask questions.

[Fran Kubelik]

29. Thanks.

I shouldn't have chastised the OP, when really it was some of the other posts in the thread that were bothering me.

I really appreciate you being so reasonable and kind with your response to me.

[youthere]

21. Maybe he's just a sleepy baby. I'm sure he's on a very different schedule...

than when he's at home. My kids could sleep through anything.

[leftofthedial]

23. I'm sure they just put some Southern Comfort on the pacifier

kinda like the relatives...

Strap them kids in
Give 'em a little bit of vodka in a cherry coke
We're going to Oklahoma to the family reunion for the first time in years
It's up at uncle Slayton's cause he's getting on in years
You know he no longer travels but he's still pretty spry
He's not much on talking and he's just too mean to die
And they'll be comin' down from Kansas
and from west Arkansas
It'll be one great big old party like you never saw

Uncle Slayton's got his Texan pride
Back in the thickets with his Asian bride
He's got a Airstream trailer and a Holstein cow
He still makes whiskey 'cause he still knows how
He plays that Choctaw bingo every Friday night
You know he had to leave Texas but he won't say why
He owns a quarter section up by Lake Eufala
Caught a great big ol' blue cat on a driftin' jug line
Sells his hardwood timber to the shipping mill
Cooks that crystal meth because the shine don't sell
He cooks that crystal meth because the shine don't sell
You know he likes his money he don't mind the smell

My cousin Roscoe, Slayton's oldest boy from his second marriage up in Illinois
He was raised in East St. Louis by his momma's people
Where they do things different
Thought he'd just come on down
He was going to Dallas Texas in a semi truck called from that big McDonald's
You know the one they built up on that great big ol' bridge
Across the Will Rogers Turnpike
Took the Big Cabin exit stopped and bought a carton of cigarettes
At that Indian Smoke Shop with the big neon smoke rings
In the Cherokee Nation hit Muskogee late that night
Somebody ran a stoplight at the Shawnee Bypass
Roscoe tried to miss 'em but he didn't quite

Bob and Mae come up from little town
Way down by lake Texhoma where he coaches football
They were two A champions now for two years running
But he says they won't be this year no they won't be this year
And he stopped off in Tushka at that "Pop's Knife and Gun" place
Bought a SKS rifle and a couple a full cases of that steel core ammo
With the berdan primers from some East bloc nation that no longer needs 'em
And a Desert Eagle that's one great big ol' pistol
I mean .50 caliber made by badass Hebrews
And some surplus tracers for that old B-A-R of Slayton's
Soon as it gets dark we're gonna have us a time
We're gonna have us a time, have us a time

Ruth Ann and Lynn come down from Baxter Springs
That's one hell raisin' town way up in Southeastern Kansas
Got a biker bar next to the lingerie store
That's got them Rolling Stones lips up there in bright pink neon
And they’re right downtown where everyone can see 'em
And they burn all night you know they burn all night you know they burn all night

Ruth Ann and Lynn they wear them cut off britches and those skinny little halters
And they're second cousins to me
Man I don't care I want to get between 'em
With a great big ol' hard on like a old bois d' arc fence post
You could hang a pipe rail gate from
Do some sister twisters 'til the cows come home
And we'd be havin' us a time, havin’ us a time

Uncle Slayton's got his Texan pride
Back in the thickets with his Asian bride
He's cut that corner pasture into acre lots
He sells 'em owner financed
Strictly to them that's got no kind of credit 'Cause he knows they're slackers
And they’ll miss that payment
Then he takes it back
He plays that Choctaw Bingo every Friday night
Drinks that Johnny Walker at that Club 69
We're gonna strap them kids in give 'em a little bit o' Benadryl
And a cherry coke we're goin' to Oklahoma Gonna have us a time
Have us a time


"Choktaw Bingo" -James McMurtry

[soccermomforobama]

28. He probably has hypotonia. . .

it is "poor muscle tone". My youngest daughter is a week older than Trig and has hypotonia. It is common for children with Down Syndrome to also have hypotonia. My daughter does not have DS but she had to have a chromosome screen to rule out DS.

She is getting better but she still has her "ragdoll" moments.

[grannylib]

32. I've wondered about that too...the little guy seems very stiff and

non-responsive. I don't know if that's typical behavior for a child with Down Syndrome or not; I sure feel bad for him being dragged out as a political prop by this thoughtless woman.

[grannylib]

33. I've wondered about that too...the little guy seems very stiff and

non-responsive. I don't know if that's typical behavior for a child with Down Syndrome or not; I sure feel bad for him being dragged out as a political prop by this thoughtless woman.

[live love laugh]

34. He's not real.

:crazy:

[jjanpundt]

37. What? Is it one of those creepy "reborn" baby dolls? n/t

[goclark]

38. Dom't they believe in carrying life like dolls?

I thought I read that someplace here.

Not saying Twig is a doll, just wanted to figure out why I have
never seen him move or have any expression at all.

[Tumbulu]

40. All the mom's I talk with are convinced he is drugged

None of us could imagine any baby not being startled by the huge noises and the lights and the disrupted schedule. The baby never cries it seems and is just passed around like a prop. And the way the wolf killer holds him and pounds his back makes me wince.

Now reading all of these informative posts, I wonder if we may be wrong.

[TorchTheWitch]

43. I noticed this and wondered about it to

I really think he's medicated for these appearances. It wouldn't do for them to have a squaling fussy baby at public appearances but they obviously feel the need to have the baby prop present. That baby is ALWAYS out like a light even surrounded by all the noise and commotion of these public appearances, and DS baby or not, I can't see this as normal behavior at all. I'd be curious to know if any medical professionals have noticed this and what their take on it would be.

[Norrin Radd]

45. Willow holding the prop.

[Iggo]

46. Diagnosis by video.

How very Frist of you.

[Atman]

48. My wife, an APRN, said the exact same thing.

That's not just Down Syndrome, she said. Some is seriously wrong with that baby.

.

[balantz]

49. Maybe the baby is in a vampiric stupor

due to Cheney feeding on it in the middle of the night during ma's training visits to the subterranean lair?

[KalicoKitty]

50. What is sad is little Trig needs a mother nurturing.

But, it seems Bristol is giving him that. Maybe those "rumors" ARE true!