Whom Do WE THE PEOPLE Hold Responsible For This Fiasco When The Economy Worsens?

[AzDar]

When this boondoggle fails, and it WILL...

WHO gets the figurative guillotine?

Bush? Pelosi? Obama? McCain? Boehner?

Gahhhhhh!!!:mad:

[liberal N proud]

1. Bu$h

It is just like the fucking war he crammed down our throats.

[AzDar]

4. But honestly to Dog, he had SO MUCH help this time around....

I am utterly disgusted.
When this is proven to be another Bush-related disaster, there should be those we can turn upside down and shake every last cent out of their pockets to atone for this.

Paulson and Bernanke to start...

[bdamomma]

15. all of them.

they are pushing us over the cliff, pitchforks and torches time?

[snappyturtle]

2. All of the above. eom

[dana_b]

3. according to some repubs...

it's the black people!! remember? it's always their fault!

seriously - noone will take the blame - their will be lots of finger pointing though, especially if Obama becomes pres. He will take a lot of heat from the right.

[AzDar]

6. He had a chance here, at REAL leadership; present an alternate bill that

people could get behind, and he didn't.
The blame that comes at him will be mostly deserved in that regard.

[dana_b]

10. not fighting with you on that one. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

11. Agree, this crisis did not pop up two weeks ago. n/t

[2speak]

5. We hold congress accountable

and make sure they do something about asap.

[The Magistrate]

7. Free-Market Economists, Ma'am, And Their Followers And Acolytes....

[elocs]

8. Here is what our Democratic candidate for president, Barack Obama said Wednesday:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gGxjYr

But while there is plenty of blame to go around and many in Washington and on Wall Street who deserve it, all of us now have a responsibility to solve this crisis because it affects the financial well-being of every single American. There will be time to punish those who set this fire, but now is the moment for us to come together and put the fire out.

Perhaps the many Republicans as well as Democrats could use the passage of this bill as the basis to form their own new party--the Do Nothing Party. As for me, I'll trust Obama's judgement on this because I have actually heard and read what he believes about this situation.

[Pastiche423]

42. Yeah, he put the fire out w/gasoline

:grr:

[GetTheRightVote]

9. Obama should never had brought into it, he knows what they are like, so he is part of their gang

It will really be them against us.

:grr::grr:

[The2ndWheel]

12. The system of limitless growth?

This is not a problem that came about because of the last 8 years. It's not a problem that came about because of the last 28 years. This problem is the entirety of thousands of years, and hundreds of human generations, of history, complexity, and momentum.

It didn't start in 2000. It didn't start in 1980. It didn't start in 1776. It didn't start in 1492. It's always been there, we just found a way to put it on a global level.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Ok here is the truth, and I have said this before

we ARE already in a recession

Here is question for ya

Do you want a crushing depression or a recession?

And yes, there is a difference

I know micro and macro econ is not the strong suit of the Murican people neither is history

[AzDar]

17. I'm hoping your question is rhetorical. Obviously NO ONE wants a Depression, but this Bill

seems to address NONE of the underlying problems that have caused our markets to tumble. On the contrary, the House refused passage until it was loaded up with more corporate TAX BREAKS!!

IT IS A SCAM.

Having been scammed multiple times by this Administration, one would think that the Democrats would have run screaming for the hills at the mere mention of this corporate bail-out. But, of course, unfortunately for you, me, and our great- grandchildren,
they went happily along.

Now, THEY OWN IT.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. It addresses SOME OF THEM

and NO BILL in the depression era addressed all issues either

I bothered readying this... why I don't know...

I guess it would be easier to hide my head in the sand and play pretend we don't have a problem.

[AzDar]

23. Preferable to hiding your head in the sand and pretending we have a solution, I guess?

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. So here is politics 101... did we have the votes?

NO.

We had the votes to staunch the bleeding... that is all

As to past is prologue, read a good history of the Great Depression... you are onto something

[AzDar]

27. The votes FOR WHAT? No other legislation (you know, something that actually addressed the problems)

was EVER proffered that I'm aware of.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. You and me are not privy to committees

that is number one

Two... at the present time the new deal legislation we need would not have passed

This buys time

That is all it does

So be ready to stop talking revolution and organize, if you actually want that legislation to come back

Me.. I am done,

I need a break from a place where ideological purity is all that matters

And where I have been insulted more than once by ideologues

There is this word called pragmatism.. look it up.. because the time for blind ideology (on both sides) is over

[AzDar]

32. This buys nothing but ownership of Bush's Bust by the Dems.

Now, the Bush Cabal, aided and abetted by the Dems, has not only raided our Treasury on their way out the door, but have seen to it that there will be NO MONEY LEFT to implement any REAL fixes for this mess by the next Administration.

Oh, and thanks...I haven't been called an ideologue since my rowdy college days,I feel so young again.:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. You are... but that's ok

sadly I am way.. and I mean this WAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to the left of most of you

But I also know this other concept people don't understand in this country

There is reality, and there is fantasy

I prefer reality and the POLITICAL reality right now means that I cannot do what I want

I also understand I need to organize.. and stop talking revolution

Alas... most folks here don't

By the way... the RIGHT wingers I had fun debating (not) on the AOL boards back in the day were also wrong... on the war, with the rest of the country by the by

But they had that cocksureness about them brought by fantasy and myth.

[girl gone mad]

39. If you're to the left of us, why would you support such a Friedmanite tactic..

Helicopter money, snuck in under the guise of a bailout for Main street? Money that will be divided up among a few of Paulson's closest friends because only that elite cabal knows how to treat the liquidity trap. Nevermind that those same people created this nightmare.

[girl gone mad]

28. Over and over I've told you that we could have added liquidity..

first and bought time to pass the bill.

You've been hoodwinked.

[anigbrowl]

31. And over and over, you've been wrong about how that would work.

I understand quite well you'd rather hand out the cash to homeowners and so on. But you haven't shown how that would unfreeze the credit markets, because you haven't explained when it could cause mortgage backed securities to become liquid again, what we would do in the meantime to lubricate credit markets, or how this would give the public or the government any leverage to renegotiate credit terms - all of which are addressed by the government purchasing the currently illiquid assets.

by your logic, the stimulus checks earlier this year should have (at least temporarily) interrupted the downward trend in home prices etc. Why didn't it?

[2speak]

37. Because this never was about mortgages

it's about derivatives and other nonsensical casino crap in the markets. I have no empathy for gamblers! And this bailout won't work. It's a drop in the bucket.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. So when I read the bill, actually read it

I imagined the EXPANSION of the HOPE program?

I wish there was more, but the program was expanded

Now we need that... and this will have to be done... I fear with a NEW CONGRESS

[girl gone mad]

40. That's not what I said. We have tools in place that would immediately..

inject liquidity.

That's what the Fed was created to do.

The SEC could have temporarily suspended the mark-to-market rule.

The FDIC cap could have been raised as a separate provision, immediately passed.

Failing that, Bush has the power to declare a bank holiday for these troubled banks and immediately halted the outflow of cash.

That would have given us enough time to get a good bill which wouldn't rob us blind and give Paulson dictatorial powers.

[girl gone mad]

26. The depression will be made worse by this action.

We've have just added to our debt at the very moment that debt is becoming more expensive.

The money we gave to the Wall street criminals will probably move into commodities and foreign markets since no one wants to loan us money or buy into our businesses in the midst of a recession. That will increase inflation.

You like to call others stupid, but you never seem to be able to actually defend this bill against any of these valid criticisms.

[silverback]

14. Lots of blame to go around, BUT...

If you really want to get down to the root cause of this fiasco, you've got to look at the federal reserve and the 1% short rates that completely destabilized the markets in the first place.

We've got a liquidity (debt) bubble that's deflating, that's the real issue IMO.

We've been living on the credit card for decades, but it really got bad when the Nasdaq bubble (which also had a liquidity component to it) popped.

The last seven+ years we've been utterly reckless, with interest rates in the low single digits and monetary inflation in double digits in a time of severe deflationary pressure on wages from globalization.

Was just a matter of time before things blew up, and everybody either knew it or should have if they're responsible for public policy.

[Sukie]

16. It seems like a bunch of people are actually

hoping that the whole thing fails, just so they can be right...............Rather than hope that things work out and put their faith in the man that they say they support to be our next president. So much negativity only generates more negativity.

[AzDar]

18. Yes, dear..that's what we're hoping for.

:eyes:


In the immortal words of Joseph R. Biden: "Past as prologue"...

[dixiegrrrrl]

19. I haven't noticed a bunch of people "hoping" for failure.

I have noticed a lot of people on DU warning of the known disaster of deficit spending, and warning of trusting elected officials who have a pattern of breaking promises to the voters, like Pelosi has been doing ever since she became Speaker.

I have noticed that hope and blind faith in promises of tomorrow, while comforting at the moment, is what keep people from noticing patterns which point to danger.

Perhaps you have heard of the saying: "Trust but verify"?


Welcome to DU, btw....:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Agreed and welcome to DU

:hi:

I guess I need to stop readying supposedly progressive sites... which are no different than the other side at times any longer

[Sukie]

30. Thank you for the welcomes.

I love all the great information that flows through this site. I just want to add that one of the reasons I wrote that is because the poster said "when the economy worsens" rather than "if the economy worsens". I am not someone who follows blindly, but I do believe in the power of positive thought. That's all. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. You welcome, I am actually considering taking a long vacation from blogs

and this OP is just one example

[earth mom]

43. Buh Bye...

:hi:

[KoKo]

44. Even though I don't always agree with you, your voice would be a great loss to DU..

So, don't let the ______'s get you down. Most of us oldies wouldn't be here these days if we let "some folks" get us down.

I don't agree on this issue with you, but respect your opinion...

But, understand that there are many "blood suckers" out there who don't get that Dems can have differing views and still respect one another.

I have always respected you...even though you know we've had some "differences." And, heated.

[dkofos]

20. EVERY IGNORANT POLITICIAN THAT VOTED YES AND THE ENTIRE bush MISADMINISTRATION

[guitar man]

25. Ronald Wilson Reagan, George HW Bush

George W Bush and every other "Trickle Down, Supply Side, Deregulation Happy" Voodoo economics rethug as well as any and all dEmocrats that have subscribed to this shit for the last 28 years. :grr:

[leftofthedial]

35. Congressional "democrats" and bush,

but bush will be long gone by then and nobody but pelosi supports him at all anymore.

[librechik]

36. President Obama is the steward of this bill

We need to hold him to his promise it is only the beginning and the problems will be fixed.

(for what that may be worth)

[gopbuster]

41. Most likely the Rothchilds and the Rockefellors n/t