The "financial experts" on the teevee seem CRAZY out of touch IMO!!

[K8-EEE]

When I see "THE EXPERTS" say "people will be afraid to go out to dinner! They won't want to spend the money!" It's like....hasn't that already HAPPENED to most people except rich people?

EVERYONE I KNOW has been cutting stuff out for the last couple of years or longer. Gas and credit card debt have a lot to do with it. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE GET IN CREDIT CARD MESSES BECAUSE THEY HAVE LOUSY, HIGH DEDUCTIBLE PLANS THAT MEANS ANY SIGNIFICANT MEDICAL INTERVENTION YOUR FAMILY HAS CAN CLEAN OUT YOUR SAVINGS!

I used to think nothing of going out to meet friends and spending $40 on drinks, parking, tips etc. Nowadays I'll suggest a hike or coming over for coffee. Everyone I know is trying to pay down their debt or avoid debt. I used to think NOTHING of driving the kids to the beach in the summer, now I'm like, calculating the gas and the parking.

All these people are like, "YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO GET A LOAN!" Hell I know a LOT of people who have already had their credit lines yanked, or been turned down for a re-fi. People will LOSE JOBS! That must make them laugh in Michigan. Here in L.A. I know SOOO MANY LAID-OFF PEOPLE!

I think the disconnect is that the high-paid "experts" live in such a different world they don't realize A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ALREADY LIVING THESE REALITIES!

[wryter2000]

1. You're right

In the past, such "experts" have explained that if Social Security and pensions aren't available, people should "make other plans" for retirement. I've heard Greenspan and Ben Stein both say that. I went :wtf: What kind of "other plans" can regular people make?

[K8-EEE]

5. Yes and it's accepted among "experts" you need to BUILD WEALTH TO RETIRE

WTF?? What my parents generation did was retired at around 65 and at that time they were lucky enough to have their house paid off and a little nest egg and social security, that's a nice retirement. Now it's like, YOU NEED $200,000 SET ASIDE FOR MEDICAL! YOU NEED A MILLION DOLLARS IN LIQUID ASSETS!

Well HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO SAVE THESE VASTS AMOUNTS OF MONEY ON STAGNANT SALARIES? Consume less? Nooooo that's "bad for the economy." Save more? the interest won't even a tiny bit keep up with cost of living increases

No, you are supposed to "invest" it ie gamble it to "gain wealth" but what if you're 60 and your 401 K takes the big dive? Then what?

HOW MANY AMERICANS RETIRE "WEALTHY" as the experts advise? That's like John McCain, sure the economy's strong FOR HIM....CUZ HE MARRIED A MAFIA PRINCESS...that's a "retirement option"most of us don't do.

[ixion]

2. and remember, most of these "experts" are in someone's pocket

which is why they sound out of touch. They're paid to parrot the talking points in a specifically framed argument, and can be counted on never to breach these parameters.

[grasswire]

3. Maria Bartiromo (sp) flat out lied yesterday

I'd find the transcript if I could, but I'm tellin' ya that I watched her lie with impunity. Either she's dumber than I thought, or thinks she can get away with it.

[K8-EEE]

7. That's funny because she's the one that made me think about it

That was so odd. On one hand they tell you, DON'T GET IN DEBT and in the next breath " DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? PEOPLE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GET A LOAN FOR THE THINGS THAT WILL PUT THEM IN DEBT!"

If I ever heard her give any information that was ACTUALLY USEFUL FOR A NORMAL PERSON I would probably fall off my chair.

[barbtries]

4. yes,

and you expressed it really well. this has been floating around my mind for days.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. They're Right.

The cutbacks will be far more than they are now. And no, that hasn't happened to most people already except rich people. Every restaurant I go to is still packed with plenty of people, whether it's mickey d's or a steak house. But if this credit crunch goes on, expect those numbers to drop far more than they have already.

[K8-EEE]

9. They might be right FOR THEM.

This is not my reality or my friends, and we are mostly middle class. My friend who sings in bars as a sideline and has for years and years, has seen several pubs go from packed to cutting back to closing. My friend who ran a successful boutique since the 90's is going out of business.

The question Reagan asked: Are you better off than four years ago? HELL NO! Yes everything bad can get worse but imagine having your home foreclosed on after not being able to re-fi as promised, losing everything and then seeing the bank that repossessed your property needs to "be bailed out."

My question is: why not have the banks renegotiate the loan, like maybe from a variable to a 40-year fixed, so that people don't have to be foreclosed on if they can make a reasonable payment. Stuff like that they don't talk about. Just throwing money at the kings of the system.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. You Must Come To Understand That The World Is Larger Than You And Your Friends.

In relation to this argument, it matters not the financial state of you and your friends. Within the frame of this argument, it is the state of our society overall that matters. And the fact is, regardless of how some are already suffering, far more will join them in the future due to this. Furthermore, regardless of your or your friends' situations, many regular people are still dining out, but will soon definitely be cutting back more if things don't start to turn around. Therefore, the guy was right.

[K8-EEE]

15. And you must understand that Americans AREN'T BUYING WHAT THEY'RE SELLING

There's a reason for that.

I don't see how they can sustain an economy where we don't make anything, we are urged to both "go shopping" (like after 9/11) and save/invest mass quantities of money while prices of necessary things (food, shelter, insurance, gas) keep rising and wages are stagnant.

If their plan is just to sustain the smoke and mirror "good economy" that is not workable in the longrun, I don't see the point in it.

They are trying to sell the bailout to the people (us) who will pay for it. The first mistake was CALLING it a bailout. BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL THE NEED TO BE BAILED OUT AND KNOW THEY WILL NOT BE BAILED OUT. The second problem with the sales job is using the Bush Fear Model without specifics (ECONOMIC MUSHROOM CLOUD COMING IF YOU DON'T DO WHAT WE SAY QUICK!)

The other problem is they do NOT explain the scenario in a way that makes sense to ordinary people's lives.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. "There's a reason for that."

Yes, there is. Most americans are totally ignorant when it comes to economics.


"If their plan is just to sustain the smoke and mirror "good economy" that is not workable in the longrun, I don't see the point in it."

Not sure where you are getting this from. Of course it's not there plan. This is the first step. There will be many other steps to come in order to save the economy, and god willlingly a democrat will be leading them.

[K8-EEE]

25. "god willingly?" "It's not there plan?"

You should maybe do a little grammar check before you start calling people ignorant.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

32. Awwwww, How Cute! You Couldn't Use Intellect To Overcome My Argument So You Had To Attack One Itty

bitty word! Oh noes!!!!! Once in a blue moon I put 'there' instead of 'their'! Oh noes!!!!!111111 What shall I ever do???? Bbbbbut I also said willingly instead of willing! Ackkkkkkk!!!!! I must jump off a cliff now!!!!! I don't deserve to liveeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

:rofl:

So weak when someone responds with such ridiculousness as to attack a post for spelling or grammar instead of actually being able to offer rebuttal to the points raised.

You were bested, and you know it.

:rofl:

[bread_and_roses]

23. 60% of households have income less than

$57,658. Forty percent have household income less than $36,000, according to the quickest reference I could find on Census site:
http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032006/hhinc/new05_000.htm

On second thought, found a more detailed table I'd remembered:
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/STTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_S1901&-ds_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_

A little over 50% have household incomes less than $50,000.

The poverty threshold for a family of four is 21,203 - and that, as everyone knows, is a ridiculous figure that comes nowhere near an actual "living wage." (Even the government knows so, as there are programs for which eligibility goes up to 200% of poverty.)

Now, it is hard for me to imagine that most of those people are eating out any too often these days as they ponder the price of heat for the coming winter. And the price of gas. And the price of food. And the holidays looming.

Yes, some are retirees, and some are single, or couples with no children, but the % of children in poverty in this Country tells us that a good number are parents with children at home.

I am of the opinion that the poster to whom you reply may have a broader grasp of how "regular people" are doing out here in r/l than do you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

24. Go To Any Restaurant You Want This Friday. Bet Ya It's Business As Usual.

[tavalon]

34. Local front page news about how local restaurants are suffering

and Starbucks is cutting back (Oh Noes!!!My burnt coffee won't be on every corner!). This is in Seattle, where the housing bubble just has a moderate link, not a full implosion like some places. I used to go to bonefish just down the hill from me because they have a gluten free menu and they we're always packed. I can't say for sure, as I didn't walk in last Friday, but I needed to stop by their neighbor Kinkos and the parking lot looked, well, sparse. Now, I'll grant you, it was only 8pm but still.

[K8-EEE]

35. Today's NYT: Restaurant closures and layoffs

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DB133BF93BA15756C0A9649C8B63

No not as many people are going out. That's my point, they are warning about stuff that started a ong time ago.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. They Are Warning About It Getting Far Worse. That's The Point.

For years plenty of business have felt the impact from a weakened economy and people tightening their budgets. That's a no brainer. We've mentioned it often on here over the years.

What the person is talking about is a sharp and far more sudden decline than what we've seen gradually build over the years; and he's right.

[girl gone mad]

8. This is the reason they are out of touch:

The people who report on Wall Street by and large live in the same place as the people who work on Wall Street. A similar problem exists in London with the City and Fleet Street. The analysts who assess what is happening on behalf of investors are employed by the same companies that they are supposed to be analyzing objectively. The agencies that rate the bonds of companies are part of the same nexus. And of course the traders who buy and sell are intertwined as well. Expecting any of these to have perspective is a bit like asking someone in the eye of a storm what they feel about wind and rain. Rumors spread easily, and fear can get stoked to wildfire intensity in a matter of days. The 24/7 news cycle doesn't help; drama and crisis are good for ratings.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/160159/page/2

[NNN0LHI]

10. They know that the US population is about three times what it was in 1930

And they know we will eat them first.

They are scared.

Don

[BrklynLiberal]

11. I think that some of them have a vested interest in creating a panic.

[K8-EEE]

14. I think the opposite is true - they will lie to NOT cause "panic"

I can't imagine any scenario where a TV talking head (employed by giant corporations) would say, "Well now might be a good time to start getting out of the stock market."

There HAVE been several times in my lifetime where the smart thing to do would have been to get out of it, but that is advice I have never heard given.....ever.

[girl gone mad]

17. You must not have been watching CNN on Monday and Tuesday.

They actually admitted that they were getting an overwhelming number of letters from viewers asking them to tone it down.

[K8-EEE]

18. Really? In what respect?

LOL, didn't mean to channel Sarah, Charlie, but letters to tone WHAT down? The fear? The advice or what.

Yep I did pretty much turn it off.

[girl gone mad]

26. The fear.

They had a giant screen with $1,200,000,000 in huge letters, talking about all of the money lost in the markets.

Ally Beslhi (sp.) was talking really fast and giving wild doom and gloom forecasts.

He said he had been getting a ton of e-mails asking him to relax. He quoted from one that said "stop acting like someone just peed in your oatmeal".

[K8-EEE]

27. That's funny! But I think GWB has called wolf too often, people just yawn.

Frankly if they're really panicked I feel like, OK be panicked. But it's kind of a different world post-BushCo. Back then even Dem friends of mine were like....if they SAY Iraq is a danger, if they are going to do THAT, then I believe it, they wouldn't lie about something like THAT!

But practical experience says, oh yeah they will....they'll lie about it all the way to the bank. So it's a Cry Wolf thing. After Iraq & Katria, we don't trust the government in Big Giant Crisis anymore. We don't scare so easy anymore. Kind of a Republican nightmare, really! Without fear, what have they got?

[4 t 4]

20. Don't forget many of these talking heads have

money in the market. Stock market, mutual funds, large bank accounts. I heard some talking head on fox say " I know, I mean I just called my fiance and said we better check all our accounts over 100,000 and figure out what to do? All OUr Accounts over 100,000. How many of you have multiple accounts over 100,000? I just heard LOU Dobbs say it is now 850 Billion dollars, what gives????

[sendero]

12. Folks need to understand..

... that we have a slowing economy regardless of the "credit crunch".

The instant evaporation of billions and billions of dollar of phony housing "equity" has resulted in slower spending by consumers.

The economic engine of housing construction is flatlining.

People are cutting back all over and guess what this does, it feeds on itself - the entire economy slows.

It looks like our government is going to do this bailout no matter what, but rest assured - the economy is going to suck for many years regardless.

[K8-EEE]

16. Yes if it's going to suck regardless then

Let's "fix" it from THE BOTTOM UP. Work programs and the like.

[4 t 4]

21. Obama said even if this happens

things are going to be very bad. So fuck me, I don't even have a job, should I care if it goes through? Yea I know people will be fighting in the streets I will join them.

[K8-EEE]

22. Yes, the pessimism of "it'll suck either way" isn't helping them sell it

If things will suck either way then they will need the money to rebuild the social nets, or all hell will break loose.

It seems to me things are going to have to change from the bottom UP, not the other way round.

I think people should move money into community banks and credit unions and other institutions that didn't make these crazy decisions in the first place. I also think government money should help people renegotiate existing predatory loans to something like a 40 year fixed.

[Swamp Rat]

28. weeeeeeee!!!

[OakCliffDem]

29. The few I actually watch seem to talk down to the audience

It is like they think the American people are too stupid to know whats going on.

"Let the Government go out and spend 700 Billion in a weeks time, its okay."

[earth mom]

30. How about when the talking heads say, "consumers just aren't shopping" instead of

"consumers don't have any money to shop with" which is more to the truth!

The talking heads are living on another planet that's for sure. :grr:

[radfringe]

31. we use to stop a local diner after running errands on Saturdays

stopped doing that months ago, ditto for having Friday night Pizza

grocery shopping is cut to minimum, any extras depends on whether or not we have coupons or it's on sale and something we really need

[tavalon]

33. Yup, I'm not scared, I'm prudent

The house I rent is being foreclosed upon. We're going to have to move by Christmas. My kiddo will get a few presents for Christmas because he has autism and no clue about the financial meltdown, but it won't be like usual. Of course. That's not rocket science, just common sense.

[malaise]

36. Apparently they've only just been given permission to discuss

topics that have been on DU for years. They sicken my stomach.

[leftofthedial]

37. I couldn't buy a car if I had to.

I don't use credit cards.

This "crisis" is utterly phony.

Yes, the economy is in the toilet. Pumping another $700 billion of hot air into the Hindenburg that deregulation and supply-side bullshit created isn't going to change anything except to make us poorer for longer and give a few hundred rich parasites more money to fund their getaways.