What the Democrats stands for.. and Rush the Limp

[question everything]

I have never been a poli-sci major, but I have always been a Democrat because, for one thing, I believe, as the Democrats do, that government can do good for the citizens. Never believed in "small government" for the sake of small government.

Yet, in the past week, or so, I have seen many posts here of self-described Democrats who claim that they "do not trust the government." Same as Republicans when I would talk about universal health insurance (until I would go to the level of individuals and then, of course, they would know a friend or a family member who is practically uninsurable.)

So if DUers here do not trust the government, what are you doing here? (Yes, I know that many here secretly wish that Nader would sit in the White House and Sheehan in Congress but these people are still here, supposedly support the Democratic party and candidates).

Most Duers supported Obama and many supported Hillary. And, until he actively campaigned for his spouse, many admired Bill Clinton. And, of course, we would like to keep our majority in the house. These leaders expressed their support of the bailout plan, with modifications and while accepting the fact that the alternative would be worse.

Yet many DUers here disagree. They agree with Rush the Limp who celebrated the defeat of the "commie" plan.

So why do you still call yourself a Democrat? What does it mean for you to be a Democrat?

Most here support a universal health plan. Would you "trust" a government with these plans?

And, I also saw thread about the stock market soaring today as "evidence" that yesterday was just a false alarm.

Many have said it before, so let me repeat: it is not about the stock market. There are only 30 companies that form the Dow Jones Average. It is about credit and liquidity.

The rate that bank charge each other for short term loans, called LIBOR, went up from 2.5% to 6.9%. This means that many small businesses cannot get decent loans for operations, not to mention for payroll.

I find it hard to understand why so many DUers are willing to let millions of us to "sink or swim." This used to be mantra of the Republicans. But if DUers agree with this, why do you call yourself a Democrat? Why do you participate in this forum? Is this still a forum for Democrats?

[question everything]

1. And they call us "trolls?"

I think that anyone who is on this board and "does not trust the government" is a troll. Is certainly not a Democrat.

[Bandit]

6. So you trust the Bush* Administration which is currently our government

:crazy: Talk about naive....

[Iterate]

2. Trust is a slippery word.

I can say that I don't trust the government, because I check every policy and statement, as a good skeptic would.

With so little evidence to go on, and such a thin background for most people, the whole issue seems to have devolved into a "who do you trust?" issue rather than one carefully thought through with a solution that stands on its merits. No time for thinking, right?

I could say that I trust Obama, because though I still check every statement and policy, I've had very few head-shaking moments when I couldn't agree. Or perhaps say that I don't trust him, because I still think through what he says.

Most certainly the fact that rw Republicans, hate radio and talking-points TV have taken the "failure is good" position is reason enough for a triple take on the bailout. And the support for it by Bush and big finance is reason enough for caution, no trust there either, for sure, and never a point of agreement in the past either.

So, I been a fence-sitter on this issue and have not spoken or written about it. Very few people have defined the problem more narrowly, as you have. I've not yet heard a solution that doesn't involve a fire hose of cash and a big bucket, and no solutions seem to zero in to the heart of the matter with cleverness. It doesn't seem reasonable that the issue "sneaked up on us." There is no one in finance who I would automatically trust, though a few academics come close. Worst of all, there are people I admire taking positions on each side.

So what's a poor fella to do?

Ask questions, define the problem, get a better solution.

Can LIBOR rates be frozen or guaranteed? Would that maintain liquidity?
Can banks be forced to freeze foreclosures and renegotiate bad mortgage loans? And the consequences?
How can the credit default speculation be drained from the system without collapse or reward for the speculators?

I want fairness, then I want blood. I want careers to be ended, de-regulators replaced in Congress, systems to be changed, prosecutions down the road.

[Dammit Ann]

5. Thinking... that will get them every time!

Keep it up and spread it around.

[question everything]

8. Well, I have tried to define the problem in broader terms

but some of the comments were in the line of "I don't trust the government" which caused me to question Democrats who, by definition should promote a government that can do good by the people.

That this time it is Bush should not negate the idea all together. It is the middle class that is hurting. Small businesses who cannot get credit and cannot provide paychecks or even stay in business. I don't know why it is so difficult for people here to understand this.

It is those of us who did make an effort to put money aside for retirements who will suffer.

And as more of us will lose jobs and health insurance; as more of us will lose any chances for dignified retirements we will be that much more of a drain on the dwindling federal and state funds.

We always look at the Republicans who do not want to pay taxes yet expect a government intervention when things go down. Or just to make sure that they have good schools and safe roads and bridges. But it appears that Democrats are getting there, too. Refuse to even listen to stories about small businesses barely hanging there - perhaps they hate small businesses - and just insist on no bailout.

LIBOR is determined by London banks so there is not much we can do.

I don't think that we should freeze foreclosures in one fell swoop. There are people who should have never purchased their current homes and freezing their foreclosures will just delay their eventual eviction. But people who, until they lost their jobs or were struck by a major medical problem were qualified for their mortgages, or who can be shown to have been victims of predatory lending - these ones should be helped. The Clintons did propose to freeze foreclosures for one year, I think.

[Iterate]

9. Thanks

I think it's all becoming more clear now.

The 'Let it fail" crowd can't have any idea just how bad bad can be. No reason to go through that just because the initial plan came from Bush.

I think a read through "Wall Street: America's Dream Palace" might be in my future.

[Hubert Flottz]

3. If you trust the Bush government after all the lies you are stupid!

PERIOD!

[girl gone mad]

4. In theory, government is not all bad.

In practice, the Bush-run government has been a catastrophe.

[Romulox]

7. Why is a poster named "Question Everything" so credulous??? nt

[Name removed]

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