Heads Up: Senate to force House's hand on bailout (AP)

[chill_wind]

AP




Senate to force House's hand on bailout


Tuesday September 30, 10:18 pm ET
By Charles Babington and Andrew Taylor, Associated Press Writers
Senate to force House's hand on bailout bill, adding tax cuts for GOP votes

WASHINGTON (AP) -- In a bold bid to revive President Bush's multibillion-dollar financial rescue plan, Senate leaders scheduled a vote for Wednesday night on a version of the bill that adds substantial tax cuts meant to appeal to Republicans when it reaches the House.


The goal is to net at least 12 more House votes than the rescue proposal received Monday, when lawmakers rocked the political and financial worlds by rejecting it.

The gambit is certain to anger some conservative House Democrats, who object to tax cuts that are not offset with spending cuts. But Senate strategists assume it will gain more House votes than it will lose.

If so, Congress would be poised to pass landmark legislation giving the government billions of dollars to buy deeply discounted mortgage-backed securities that are choking off credit and roiling the markets.

The strategy is risky because some House members might see it as a high-handed move by senators. Senate passage of a bailout measure has seemed assured all along. The showdown is in the House, but now the Senate is trying to force the House's hand.

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., called it "a brilliant move" that will "help pick up votes on both sides of the aisle."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's reaction was much cooler. "The Senate has made a decision about how to proceed and what can pass that body," the California Democrat said. "The Senate will vote tomorrow night, and the Congress will work its will."

more: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080930/financial_meltdown.html

[bigtree]

1. 'substantial tax cuts'

Those poor lenders sure need more money in their pockets.

[aquart]

9. How stupid do you have to be to cut taxes NOW?????

[natrat]

21. how stupid do you have to be to give 700 billion to crooks with few questions asked?

[bigtree]

43. I see the taxes now. They were held up in the House over funding them

The House bill, which appears headed for a vote Friday, has about $15 billion in tax incentives for investments in renewable energy resources such as wind, solar, geothermal and water power. It has tax breaks for carbon sequestration projects and has a new credit for purchasers of plug-in electric drive vehicles.

The legislation also renews, mostly for two years and at a cost of $42 billion, dozens of targeted tax breaks that expired at the end of last year or will expire at the end of this year. The biggest is the $18 billion R&D credit, but there are also extensions of credits for teachers with out-of pocket expenses, people paying college tuition and people living in states with state and local general sales taxes. The refundable child tax credit is expanded, at a cost of $3 billion.

There are also highly specific breaks for motorsports entertainment complexes, film and TV productions and wooden arrows used by children.

The House bill is fully paid for, by limiting tax breaks given to the oil and gas industry and closing loopholes hedge fund managers and corporations use to lower taxes on overseas income.

That puts it at odds with the Senate, which on Tuesday passed a three-part comprehensive tax package including AMT and disaster relief. The Senate pays for about $17 billion in renewable energy incentives but offsets only about $25 billion out of $68 billion in tax extensions.

The House bill also prompted a White House veto threat, which said in a statement it was disappointed the House had "insisted on raising taxes on certain classes of Americans in order to extend current law."

The House and Senate are more in synch on two other parts of the tax package: On Wednesday the House separately passed a one-year fix of the alternative minimum tax to prevent the number of people affected by the "millionaires' tax" from jumping from about 4 million to 26 million. It overwhelmingly passed a national disaster relief plan.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iEeZHDYihRxri_aauxdnC9kCTONwD93E0N304


These look innocuous on the face, but I wonder about the business cuts. I see the House republicans want a two-year suspension of capital gains . . .

[Winterblues]

50. Didn't Obama say he would cut taxes for 95% of Americans?

Is that a stupid thing for him to do?

[chill_wind]

52. Obama's only stamp on this is the same as McCain's- raise the FDIC insurance.

per all the CQ writings.

[seemslikeadream]

2. I don't think folks in the House are gonna like this

[Truth2Tell]

32. Charles Fucking Schumer:

"substantial tax cuts" are "a brilliant move."

[wtmusic]

3. Roiling the market that was up nearly 500 pts today?

Just keep writing the bills and voting them down...cheap and effective!

[sharesunited]

I'm skeptical that "substantial tax cuts" would sweeten it very much for anyone here at DU.

[annabanana]

14. really . .thanx for nuthin' Schumer... You can take that & Mukasey

and well.... you know

[avaistheone1]

28. I am confident Schumer likely gets tons and tons of money from the financial industry.

He is a New York senator where the financial industry is primarily based in this country.

The impact to New York City alone is supposedly $3.5 Billion dollars if the bailout is not funded.

I don't think he will take the political risk and not vote for it.

I resent it Schumer for his bad votes including Mukasey, and it looks like this one will be a bad one too.

Its Dems like this that are killing the Dem party.

[chill_wind]

39. Hah!

Total Campaign Contributions Received: $18,949,576

Top 10 Interests Funding

Interest Contributions

Attorneys & law firms $1,821,571

Security brokers & investment companies $1,479,701

Real estate $651,869

Investment banking $567,990

Retired $530,750

Commercial banks & bank holding companies $478,700

Real estate agents $341,767

Real Estate developers & subdividers $329,812

Accountants $314,774

Investors $215,600

http://www.maplight.org/map/us/legislator/606

[avaistheone1]

40. More than a good guess...it's a fact.

[ww2player]

56. http://www.campaignmoney.com/

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/campaigns/charles_e_schumer.asp?cycle=08#MoneySummary

[aquart]

17. We don't want cuts. We want punitive measures.

We want balls cut off and dangling from car mirrors. (Yeah, yeah. Freeze dry them first.)

[chill_wind]

46. lol!

[chill_wind]

26. Schumer and Hank should get a room. n/t

[avaistheone1]

27. No kidding. Just not at taxpayer expense.

[Eric J in MN]

4. The Senators will have less than 24 hours to read the final bill.

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi don't believe in giving their members enough time to read bills before voting on the bills.

[TexasObserver]

16. Most of them have an aide who tells them what it says and a lobbyist who tells them how to vote.

But, yeah, Pelosi and Reid, among their many deficiencies, don't give enough time for percolating bills.

[avaistheone1]

29. I know, despite Pelosi's statements at the beginning of her tenure as Speaker that she would behave

differently - she hasn't

[TexasObserver]

45. I had the highest of hopes for her, but she folded on the Iraq War almost immediately.

She's cowardly and accomplished almost nothing.

[avaistheone1]

54. She is worse than that. Pelosi is like Bush's right hand

or should I say left hand?

[wtmusic]

5. Great...tax cuts put us farther into debt while we spend more.

What the hell are they thinking? :wtf:

[Eric J in MN]

7. Exactly. Making a bad bill worse. NT

NT

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. Sooo.... $12,000 wasn't enough to charge on my kids credit cards? n/t

[BuyingThyme]

6. So, Harry Reid's answer to sticking Americans with the bill is to

make the bill even larger.

Brilliant!

[chill_wind]

23. Even as public support has declined even further. New Pew report:

Sept 27-29.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4134860&mesg_id=4134860

[girl gone mad]

8. That could backfire.

The House might resent this ploy, and what if they are unable to get the votes they need?

[thunder rising]

10. Always good to see them in a hurry to give money to the rich while people starve and go homeless

[msongs]

11. Blow Bush Act of 2008 - there goes the Obama chance to draft a progressive plan nt

[chill_wind]

38. Bush Blow Job Act 2008--- 'bout right. n/t

[chill_wind]

12. kpete has a thread with more details:

just caught this one--- go here, too:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7261798

[John Q. Citizen]

15. How do you start a spending bill in the Senate? Just ignore the constitution?

[BlooInBloo]

18. I'd be curious to know what detail it is that makes this possible too.

[Subdivisions]

19. That was my first thought upon hearing of this too. n/t

[chill_wind]

20. per the explanation in the piece kpete linked to:

"(...)

Congressional leaders have not yet decided whether to launch their next attempt in the House or have the Senate go first. Support for the failed bill was much broader in the Senate all along.

Asked whether the Senate might go first, Finance Chairman Max Baucus , D-Mont., said Tuesday, “We could.”

Under the Constitution, tax bills must originate in the House. Although the bailout measure contains tax provisions, nothing would stop Baucus from pulling a House-passed tax bill out of his desk drawer and providing it to Senate leaders to use as vehicle for action on a financial rescue proposal.

Dodd said he has heard from colleagues “that a number of people who voted no yesterday are having serious second thoughts about it,” though he didn’t name names.

Substantial Resistance

But House members of both parties who voted against the bailout bill (HR 3997) showed no inclination to reconsider their votes. "

from: http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002967096&cpage=4

[aquart]

33. We still have a constitution?

No shit. Where's it been?

[tavalon]

47. Constitution?

I'm a little foggy here, what is a Constitution? Is that like "my daily constitution"?

[chill_wind]

22. Bernie Sanders to offer amendment

In addition, Sen. Bernard Sanders , I-Vt., will be allowed to offer an amendment that will receive a voice vote. Sanders has called for a 10 percent surtax on individuals earning at least $500,000 per year, in order to help pay for the plan.

per kpete's thread/link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7261798

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=news-000002967096

[bvar22]

30. Voice Vote?!?!?

Lilly Livered Chicken shit bastards afraid to go down on paper!

It really is just a big ol rich boys club.

[chill_wind]

31. big ol rich boys club - just doing business as usual

I should just hang this over my computer:

Greenwald

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4130717

[chill_wind]

36. As I recall, that was how Bush Tax-Cut Hank was confirmed, too.

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?dist=newsfinder&siteid=google&guid={5801D6FE-295A-4326-894B-ACB0454619C5}&keyword=

Every time I read that piece, I get angrier.

[chill_wind]

34. self-delete-- to move repy

[aquart]

37. Now THAT would be popular.

Not, of course, with the people who "count."

[marmar]

24. Again, Harry Reid proves what a worthless sack of flesh he is.....

:argh:

[chill_wind]

25. FUBAR! n/t

[bvar22]

35. Would you buy a used car from these people?

Would you really give them $700 Billion of your children's dollars
without any guarantees just because they said so.

Remember, these are the people who believe that Bush/Cheney haven't committed any impeachible offenses.

Schumer,(Senator, Wall Street), has been bathing is dollars from Wall Street for years.

Pssst. Obama too.
Wall Street #1 funder of Obama's campaign.
Just warning ya.



For a REAL recovery plan, see Bernie Sanders or Dennis Kucinich.

[earth mom]

41. Fucking Criminal Bastards!

:grr:

[magellan]

42. By God, I've had it.

The Dems are as deep in the corporate pockets as the Repubs. Maybe moreso. So let them throw $700 billion at this like it'll fix anything. We obviously aren't going to stop them. Things will appear to get better and then go bad again. And I'm sure we'll see a lot of the same people back here with their hair on fire trying to frighten everyone into supporting yet another bailout that won't fix things...

Because the real problem can't be fixed by bailouts.

The Fed has already injected well over a trillion into the system to no avail. But by all means, let's hock our great-grandchildren's futures for another $700 billion, and so on. From what I've seen over the last 4 years, most of America is willing to trade their freedom for "security" anyway as long as the right fear buttons are pushed.

I guess we really don't learn from history.

[chill_wind]

44. Soros floated an alternative plan to the Dems & Obama. It's getting no press.

Soros floats alternative bailout plan with Dems

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4140173&mesg_id=4140173


Contains help for homeowners. He's a fierce critic of the Paulson Plan

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/soros-floats-alternative-bailout-plan-with-dems-2008-09-30.html

[chill_wind]

48. The tax breaks (CNNmoney this morning):

"... three key elements designed to attract House Republican votes - particularly popular tax measures that have garnered bipartisan support.



It would extend a number of renewable energy tax breaks for individuals and businesses, including a deduction for the purchase of solar panels.

The Senate bill would also continue a host of other expiring tax breaks. Among them: the research and development credit for businesses and the credit that allows individuals to deduct state and local sales taxes on their federal returns.

In addition, the bill includes relief from the Alternative Minimum Tax, without which millions of Americans would have to pay the so-called "income tax for the wealthy."

The debate over extending AMT relief is an annual political ritual. It enjoys bipartisan support but deficit hawks on both sides of the aisle contend the cost of providing that relief should be paid for. Others argue it shouldn't be paid for because the AMT was never intended to hit the people the relief provisions would protect. Nevertheless, lawmakers pass the measure every year or two.

The revised bailout bill also includes a "Mental Health Parity" provision, which would require health insurance companies to cover
mental illness at parity with physical illness.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/01/news/economy/senate_rescuebill2/index.htm?eref=rss_topstories

[Eric J in MN]

49. No one is being forced to vote for this terrible bill.

A Congress member who votes Yes made a choice to give another $700 billion to the Bush Administration.

[chill_wind]

51. CQ Politics Update on the Bailout Mess: Today

Senate Bailout Vote Will Put House on Spot Again
By Benton Ives, Richard Rubin and Joseph J. Schatz, CQ Staff
CQ TODAY ONLINE NEWS – ECONOMIC AFFAIRS
Updated Oct. 1, 2008 – 12:42 p.m.

The Senate, in a high-stakes gamble, plans to vote Wednesday night on a massive financial rescue plan, after attaching a tax-break package and adding higher insurance limits for bank deposits.

With leaders of both parties pushing for passage and the rival presidential candidates returning to Washington to lend their support, the combined bill is expected to pass with a substantial majority in the Senate.

The Senate will offer the bailout and tax-extenders language as a substitute amendment to a House-passed mental health parity bill (HR 1424).

The measure’s core provisions, which would authorize the Treasury to buy up to $700 billion in troubled assets now clogging the books of financial institutions, are essentially unchanged from the version (HR 3997) defeated in the House two days ago by 205-228.

3 pages: http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002968192&cpage=1#


Later today

McCain, Obama, Biden Fly Back for a Really Uncomfortable Vote
By David Nather, CQ Staff
Oct. 1, 2008 – 12:21 p.m.

So John McCain , Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr. will all be in Washington for the big vote on an ever-so-slightly tweaked version of the bailout package. It’s not a big surprise, since both Obama and McCain are vested in the outcome now. But it’s one more reminder that, when you’re a senator running for the White House, no good ever seems to come from returning to your day job.

The last time Obama showed up for a vote, on July 9, it was to support a rewrite of the nation’s electronic surveillance rules. His vote was wildly unpopular among the Democratic base, and many leading Democratic senators disagreed with Obama. (Like Biden, for example.) But at least Obama’s vote made it impossible for McCain to attack Obama as weak on terrorism. Oh wait, he still does that.

The last time McCain came back to vote — on April 8, back when spring was in the air and the trees were just starting to bloom — it was a simple procedural vote to end debate on housing legislation. But he’s had plenty of opportunities to vote since then, on a popular wage discrimination bill he opposed, a popular veterans’ educational benefits bill he didn’t like, etc.

Somehow, those didn’t seem like smart votes for McCain to cast, so he stayed away. And then, of course, McCain and Obama came back last week — largely at McCain’s insistence — to jump into the ill-fated negotiations on the bailout bill.

The two spent much of the day Tuesday trying to look more active in suggesting ways to get past Monday’s defeat of the bailout bill in the House. Both Obama and McCain suggested increasing the FDIC deposit insurance from $100,000 and $250,000, and it appears that the idea will be included in the Senate package. But all Obama got for proposing the idea was an accusation from House Minority Leader John Boehner’s office that he stole it from House Republicans.

more: http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=5&docID=news-000002968240

Last nite's background:

Senate Plans Vote on Financial Rescue Wednesday
By Bart Jansen, Benton Ives, Joseph J. Schatz and Jonathan Allen, CQ Staff

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=news-000002967096

[chimpymustgo]

53. Kicking for the truth. STOP THE BAILOUT/RAPE.

[chill_wind]

55. Anybody listening to the debate?

thanks to avaistheone1 for link:

http://chooseandwatch.com/

get CSPAN2

Kay Baily Hutchison just seized up my screen. Ackkk--- make her go away :-/