Nobody wants another Great Depression, many simply want the house of cards to fall

[whatchamacallit]

so we might build a new and better future. For as long as I can remember many of our fundamental systems (financial, political...) have been skewed to favor certain segments of society. The stranglehold these groups have on our, supposedly, democratic institutions has been impossible to break. Suddenly, the country club class is in trouble due to their massive hubris and greed, and they demand the folks outside the gates save them, so they can do business as usual. I believe when people on DU say stuff like "bring it!", they don't really wish misery and chaos for their fellow Americans. I think there's a growing realization that things are going to have to get a lot worse before they can get better. No ashes, no phoenix. If we continue to prop up dysfunctional systems for our comfort and convenience, we leave our fates in the hands of people who aren't concerned with them.

[fascisthunter]

1. exactly.... emotions are high right now

I honestly don't believe people wish for a Great Depression.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. yes i agree. i do not think peopel on DU want people to starve

i think its hyperbole and people pretending that they dont understand hyperbole.

[ramapo]

3. Yes a reset would be nice

Unfortunately I do believe that if the cards all topple then we're going to be buried along with the cabal that has created this mess.

[ixion]

4. yep, that's the truth

I've had people reply to my posts saying "don't you understand what will happen?", etc. It's not that I don't understand. I understand very clearly. It's not that I don't care. Of course I care. It's because I understand and I care that I want to see the correction take place, in spite of the pain and suffering that are sure to be caused by it.

[sandnsea]

5. Cards Falling = Great Depression

Do you seriously not grasp that? And do you not understand that the country club class will be just fine - it's the working class who will become working poor, and the poor who will become homeless.

[whatchamacallit]

6. Well, that is what the people who want your money are claiming

If I had the slightest confidence these fools could fix everything with this bailout, I'd say "here you go, I'm all in", but I don't. Unless you can hip us to some information we don't have, we have ZERO reason to trust them on this. Like untold billions before it, this money will likely disappear down a deep, dark, hole, and we'll be left holding our asses.

[sandnsea]

8. If I could wave a wand

I would send all of the fringe, left and right, to an island to deal with the consequences of every crazy thing they've ever demanded they have.

[dbonds]

7. I would love to see the economic distribution of wealth reset.

For a long time it has been a rigged game. But a great depression only makes them slightly less rich and the rest of us stand in the soup line. What happened on Wall Street shouldn't be enough to cause a great depression except for the fact that too many of us have been living beyond what we are paid. There is a good argument that the populace is not paid enough, but that issue isn't being addressed with all this. The fact that most live on credit now is what would cause the great depression (that combined with the fact we don't manufacture goods anymore). Banks freezing credit will stop spending, and our whole economy is based on cash flow right now. Stop the cash flow and it all crumbles. But the rich just convert their accounts to gold or Euro's and continue to be rich and the power brokers.

[whatchamacallit]

9. True. I don't advocate we let it all go, I'm commenting on the understandable feelings of some DUers

There's no doubt the rich will do fine in a meltdown, and the little guy will take the brunt of the hurt, but we've seen a steady, systematic, erosion of the protections borne of the last crash, and this trend will continue as long the folks in charge don't have to face the music.

[shadowknows69]

10. I'd just like to see something equalize the classes a little bit in this country

Nothing makes a person wake up quicker when they go from being rich to poor in about a week.

[redqueen]

11. It's childish, unrealistic thinking. Lack of thinking, really.

We can wish and wish till we're blue in the face that things would go the way we want them to.

The fact is, that won't do jack to change or improve *anything*.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. Any Way You Slice It, The People Saying Such Things Are Still Quite Ignorant.

I don't care what the logic they use to justify their stupidity is.

[whatchamacallit]

15. It may be more a matter of stake

Those less invested in the system are less likely to support it, those with a stake are incensed at "ignorant" anarchist views.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. Once Again, Their Warped Logic Used In Defense Matters Not.

They are ignorant nonetheless.

One need not a stake in order to care about others or grasp impact.

Those calling for such things are ignorant and their calls are moronic.

[backscatter712]

13. A lot of people here figure they have nothing left to lose.

They see the tsunami coming, and they figure if they're gonna be left destitute no matter what happens in DC, they might as well take the rich fucks who caused the mess and make them share in the suffering.

[Raksha]

14. "No ashes, no phoenix." I can relate to that.

In an e-mail I received yesterday, Rabbi Lerner compared Paulson's bailout plan to trying hold the Tower of Babel together with a band-aid. Duct tape might have been been a better analogy, but I think everyone gets the idea.

[tjwash]

16. You know what...fuck everyone who wants to give these thieves one red, unregulated cent.

What. The. Fuck.

As the bailout talk here goes; I can't even believe that impossibly huge, steaming cauldron of horse shit is even being debated, much less supported by a large contingent of DU'ers. Paulson, Bush and the rest of these common criminals should be rounded up and thrown into prison for extortion, insider trading, and market manipulation, not given close to a TRILLION DOLLARS sealed with a kiss, and with no strings attached at all.

Again...WTF?? If we don't cough up $700 billion with no strings attached, they'll show us that they business by beginning to knock us off one family, one industry, one town, at a time? THAT'S WHAT THE FUCK THEY HAVE BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS! HELLO--Mc-Fly! The only difference is, that they are telling the media outlets that they own and operate to actually report these atrocities against the American people. Keep that old fear...fear...fear...bullshit going. That has been their trump card since Florida turned red in 2000.

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

In the simplest terms I can come up with...these are the same fuckheads who have raped and pillaged the United States and the world for the past 8 years, and they want to remain in control after George W. Bush no longer serves as the official frontman for their confidence game. If this unregulated pile of horseshit gets passed through, we deserve for the USA to once and for all fall into the Mussolini-style corporate/government fascism that they are attempting.

:rant:

[dbonds]

18. From my understanding they are attaching strings to it.

They are not giving them cash outright, the government is buying the bad loans from these companies at a very low rate (pennies on the dollar). The companies that accept the buyouts also have to forgo any bonuses and give up golden parachutes. There will be oversight on the whole process. The buyout will not happen all at once, but in stages. The government will work with people in the houses we now have the loans for to try to keep them in their homes. I am with you in that I don't want to see the wall street guys and the predatory loan guys make a cent off this, I would love to see them crash and burn. This does stop the crashing part (because that ripples down to all of us), but it doesn't let them profit as much as cut their losses.

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. How do we do that without going down with them?

[Hidden Stillness]

19. This Whole Financial Set-Up Should Be Killed; It is Not Even the Regular Regulated Banks

What must be allowed to completely collapse, is the deregulated pyramid scheme that the entire financial industry has become; this is why there were no depressions or extreme, prolonged recessions until the past 20 years or so, and there has been little else since, plus unending corporate crime. All the removed layers of protective safeguards, oversight, consequences, law, have allowed a smaller and smaller group of conspirators to affect larger and larger systems, with less work, leading to continual disaster; and to no benefit to the economy.

I do not pretend to understand finances or "banking" (whatever that even means nowadays), but one thing I have been learning about, is the way they deregulated loans, so that what used to be a one-on-one exchange between a local bank and a customer, is now completely broken up, so that unrelated corporate entities are getting fees from other corporate entities for moving money around, they are broken up so that the original loans is now a group of layered "products," all with different handlers, etc. Investments made by brokers now do not have to have collateral, but are now "securitized," meaning merely a claim on paper (just like the cause of the 1929 Crash); things are rated "good" or "safe" or "AAA," by the same group that profits off of the sales of the stock, and so insider trading, a crime, is now the structural set-up, etc. The huge amounts of money to be gained by scams (Enron, WorldCom, etc.), and the impossibility of even trying to run a fair system with no regulation or oversight by others, insures that it will be overrun and swamped by crooks. Many outrageous laws, rules, fees, penalties, are now common, that would have been punishable by law before, and all for the increased profit of the broker, hedge-fund manager, etc.

Representative Marcy Kaptur, on her House website, (for example), http://www.kaptur.house.gov/ has a Sept. 22, 2008 Statement on Economic Turmoil, that is very good, and the main point of it, is that no bailout of any kind should occur until AFTER reforms, new regulations and the restoration of killed regulations over the years, criminal penalties, protections for the American people, and solutions to their problems first, have taken place. Kill this whole "system," and restore the regulated system that was there, from the 1930s on, but only updated as needed, to deal with newer situations--NOT DEREGULATED.