Let Me Tell You About Small Town Values

[Prophet 451]

I grew up in a small fishing town on the south-west coast of Britain. Yeah, it's England but the small town mentality is universal. The Republicans (and more Democrats than I'd like) lately have spent a lot of time talking about small town values so let me tell you about those small town values.

There's nothing especially admirable about small town people. Politicians like to talk like small towners are the salt-of-the-earth, backbone-of-the-country, the much glorified small town volk. You scratch those small towners and you'll find that those values aren't exactly admirable. Values like racism. Small towns tend not to be ethnically diverse, you tend not to come across many black or Asian or Hispanic people in small towns. There's always exceptions of course but by and large, the only minority those small towners ever talk to is the guy who runs the local newstand or takeout. There's a natural human tendancy to feel comfortable around people who look like ourselves but small towns tend to be so white that racism runs rampant. Where I grew up, telling someone quibbling about money to "stop being such a Jew" was still a common phrase.

Know what else you can find in small towns? Homophobia and lots of it. The town Sarah Palin ran into the ground had a population of around nine thousand people. That's about half the size of my hometown (Brixham in Devon, it's on Wiki). No-one comes out of the closet in towns that small. Oh, there's probably a few gay people quietly living their lives. In fact, I'd be surprised if there weren't but people aren't openly gay in small towns. They don't talk about their partners because in any street, any bar, you'll find a few dozen guys who think homosexuality is a better reason than most to start a fight. Where I grew up, the standard response to suspecting someone was gay was "kick 'is 'ead in!". Violent homophobia is almost a universal trait in small towns.

Want some more small town values? Ignorance is probably a good place to start. Here, schooling is compulsary until you turn sixteen and home schooling is almost unheard of. What you get is classes of around thirty bored kids who don't want to be there, taught by underpaid and overworked teachers who either get ground down or have just plain given up in the first place. Remember peer pressure from when you were a teenager? The pressure in small town schools is actively hostile to learning. Schools in small towns don't teach kids because the other kids won't let them. Ignorance is the rule, lauded and rigidly enforced by bullying. No, schools in small towns exist for sports and to give parents somewhere to shove teenagers for six or seven hours a day.

I wasn't surprised when Bristol Palin's pregnancy was announced. Growing up in a small town, the only things there are for a teenager to do are drink, drug and fuck. There were around twenty girls in my class when we left school at sixteen. Within a couple of years, almost all of them had kids of their own. We drank like fish, we snorted anything we could lay hands on and yeah, we screwed like rabbits. When the only nightlife is pubs you can't get into, what else is there to do? The official age of consent in Britain is sixteen but I don't think there was more than a couple of kids in my class who actually were virginal when we left school. Most had lost their virginity at fourteen or fifteen and more than a few were pregnant at that age as well. I guess you'd call us wild but we weren't, not by the standards of the small town we lived in. We were normal. I don't know how many laws we broke but it was probably a lot. We fucked and drank underage, took whatever we could get hold of, shoplifted, burgled. Are you surprised at that admission? You shouldn't be. Most small towns are poverty-stricken, especially if their whole income rests on one or two industries. The only times you see a copper in those towns, they're either moving you along or hassling you for, well, for being a teenager.

The people in those towns aren't bad, I should stress that but they tend to be ignorant, bored by high-minded policy discussions. They tend to fixate on details and be easily distracted. Trying to win their votes isn't about appealing to their better natures, it's about reflecting their prejudices and bribing them with promises of lower taxes or more funding for the town.

Religion didn't play much of a role in Brixham, it tends not to in England. We're a fairly secular country by-and-large but small towns tend to be conservative and we had a couple of churches. Two churches and nine pubs, what does that tell you about small town values? I know why both candidates are sucking up to small town voters, the arrangement of votes in both our countries give those voters a worrying amount of power but if you ever want to see the full milk of human bitterness, pettiness and prejudice, you can find it anywhere but you're most likely to find it just under the surface of small town values.

[liberal N proud]

1. I too grew up in a small town

And much of what you say is so very true. Small town people are usually not very open to anyone that isn't from their small town, doesn't look like them and doesn't go to one of the few churches within that small town.

Another thing about small towns, nothing is secret,

[annabanana]

2. Why are people afraid to take on the meme?

"small town" . .Is it the euphemism for "ignorant, backwater"? What percentage of the American people live in towns that small? Or is the mythology of the "small town" SO powerful that it's glowing (and largely false) image is untouchable?

Repugs sure as hell have been using it with success for a long time.. It is at the base of their attacks against "big city elites" and "lawyers with fancy degrees". .

I want to quantify the strength of the myth.. Just how many hayseeds are out there any way?

I know that any discussion of the "small town values" here at DU can erupt in a firestorm.

[liberal N proud]

3. Many in the city came from the small towns

That is why small towns never grow. My parents had five kids, we all live in major metropolitan areas. My small town is nice to visit when I want to get away from everything, including cell phones. But I wouldn't want to live there. 60 miles to the nearest town more than 5,000.


I suppose they get away with it because so many have roots back to those small towns.

[arcadian]

6. It harkens back to the 1950s "American Dream" bullshit

[tbyg52]

14. I didn't particularly like the ones I was in in the 50's, either.

My most vivid memory of (stupidly) moving back to my high school home town is of a person telling me how much she liked it because she knew everybody in the stores and banks and therefore they were nice to her and would do special things for her. My first thought was that, as businesses, they should treat everybody's money the same, whether a person was their buddy or not.

We had come from a tourist city, where all money was equal, and that's the way I like it. I hope to be able to move back to a tourist city before I die. Please wish me luck.... ;)

[whathehell]

22. There was a saying "Small town, small minds"..

I heard it fairly often growing up in the sixties, seventies..It seems to have disappeared altogether.

[lumberjack_jeff]

28. As well it should.

There is no form of exclusion which will help us to win.

The democratic party was formed to promote agrarian ideals. It is naive in the extreme to think that those agrarian values are necessarily strongly progressive. Small town folk are not any more noble than those who live in suburbia or in cities.

The reason that people are afraid to take on the meme is because no one wants to be called an ignorant hayseed.

I find it intriguing that the OP feels fit to create a stereotype of small town life based on one data point, while simultaneously criticizing those who live there for creating their stereotypes of non-whites based on the person who runs the newsstand.

[Prophet 451]

38. Ah, the exception that (dis)proves the rule apparently

Apparently, you live in an exception, good for you. That doesn't mean that most of what I wrote is not generally true. If it's generally true, is it still a stereotype? Maybe. Nor did I say that the people there created their stereotypes from the guy who ran the newstand, I said that was probably the only non-white person they encountered. Respond to what I actually said, not what you think I said.

You said "The reason that people are afraid to take on the meme is because no one wants to be called an ignorant hayseed" which firstly, doesn't make any sense because the meme was about the superiority of small town values so how would going against that make you an ignorant hayseed? Secondly, I haven't heard much mockery of small town values since this mythologising started about twenty years ago. Some, but not much. What I have heard a hell of a lot of is those same small town people insulting city dwellers as latte-drinking elitists. And really, isn't that exactly what you're saying, that I'm being elitist? Well, A) I am an elitist, I don't like the idea of a world run by the values of Podunk, Kansas and B) In the sense of thinking those percieved as intellectually or morally superior should run things (my emphasis), which is the definition of "elitism" in my dictionary, the majority of it these days is coming from those small towns bitching about pointy-headed librul eggheads.

And by the way, recognising and talking about problems isn't being "exclusionary" unless you've actively brought into the myth that we should all seek to live in Smallville.

[lumberjack_jeff]

66. It harms the cause to alienate voters. This seems a simple concept to me.

When you call voters ignorant hayseeds, describe their worlds as flyover country and aggressively abandon the agrarian issues which were the foundation of the party, we will continue to get our asses kicked.

The "no one" to whom I refer were the voters who are put off by your unsophisticated, podunk frame. I want them to vote for my guy. Do you?

Stick to your day job. Campaign strategy isn't your forte. Simply because the opposition is making an attempt to market themselves by idealizing and embracing agrarian/rural/small town life doesn't mean that we are obliged to villify it. They're doing it because it works. The key is to not let 'em. McCain doesn't share the values his party is fetishizing - none of his 11 homes are even in small towns.

I see little difference between elitism and the concept that those unlike me should not be represented by my candidate.

[roguevalley]

53. I was raised and lived in small towns all my life. If there are roads

that go in all directions, lessening the isolation some towns have, it will be as nice or as bad as anywhere else. Lumping on heaps of bullshit is as helpful as stereotyping urban people.

The more isolated the town, the more you see the glaring things that you don't see elsewhere as clearly. People know each other, many are related and they don't hide as much socially as in other places. They are as open as a family to what they believe.

I really, REALLY hate the stereotyping of small towns here. I would never live in a city. I love small towns. My small town, Soldotna, is a great place. you should come down sometimes and have a flat tire. You will see what makes small town living great.

[annabanana]

58. I had a flat on the West Side Highway.

I do not believe that the people who stopped to help were not locals.

[rebel with a cause]

80. Nothing is secret!

You got to be kidding. I could go to a couple of towns and tell people what I know from working in social services and blow their minds. There are plenty of secrets in small towns, just like there is anywhere else.

I lived in NYC and I had neighbors who watched me, counted how many times I left my apartment, and so on and so on. I was shocked to be accosted on the matter one day by a group of neighborhood women as I walked with my daughter past them. I had only had one woman ever do that to me in a small town, and she was told to mind her own business. Well, in the city I couldn't very well do that since I was so outnumbered. Where was I going every day? I was taking my daughter for walks and other non-threatening activities. I could not move in my city neighborhood without someone watching and passing judgment on me. It was the most small town neighborhood that I have ever lived in. I loved some of my neighbors and did not care for most of them, but knew them all better than I ever did in a small town because we were packed together in close quarters. No so in a small town. To know much about me neighbors, I have to go out of my way to spy on them. Please this stereotyping is ridiculous. I am not that fond of living where I do, but I'm not that fond of some other places I lived also.

Small towns suck, so do cities because people live in both of them. :grr:

[Eric Condon]

4. Thank you. I cannot for the LIFE of me understand this fetishization of "Small Town America"

This is the most pointless meme ever created by the right. It's so transparently a codeword for "culturally homogeneous, white Christian heterosexual America where differences aren't even apparent, let alone tolerated."

I live in New Albany, IN, which is a town of about 37,000 people just outside of Louisville, KY. A lot of the people here love to crow about how New Albany has "the best of both worlds, because it's close to a big city but it has that small-town atmosphere." I've always found this laughable, because anyone in New Albany with half a brain can tell you it's quite the opposite - all the cultural stagnation of a small town with all the angst and neuroses of a big city. Nobody "knows everybody's name" - in fact, people stare at you like you have horns on your head if you just so much as walk down the street. People DO lock their doors at night - and in my family's case, even though I grew up in a more rural part of the town, it was a necessity, because my parents were awoken one night by the sound of this redneck guy down the street stealing a car battery out of one of their cars and making off with it. And yet people STILL continue to push this meaningless drivel about "small town America."

I really wish more people, especially here in Indiana, could understand John Mellencamp's sarcasm.

[annabanana]

5. Not pointless at all. .

very very very useful to the radical right...

The lie that keeps on giving them power in this Country. . .

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. America is a bit different

For one thing, we have a lot of "dry" counties and "dry" towns. This adds to the hypocrisy, of course, because it makes drinking illegal for adults as well as teens. In the small towns where I have lived and worked, there are private clubs that are enriched by the lack of public pubs, and the neighborhood bootlegger doesn't care who he sells to--there have been a lot of folks killed by drunk drivers.

I'd also say that in the small towns I know, the churches outnumber those private clubs and bootleggers by quite a bit. One coal minig town in Illinois where I lived had maybe half a dozen private clubs, but literally dozens of churches of many different denominations. I can think of at least 3 that were quite large in size, too. I think when my ancestors left Britain to hop aboard a leaky tub called the Mayflower, they brought with them the idea that church going is important. Note I say church going, not living the teachings of Jesus. For some this is important, but sadly for many, religion is an excuse to exhibit bigotry, and church is simply another social center.

However, I'd say that education is stressed here. In both small towns where I've worked, there has been a junior college, and the notion that it is important for the kids to better themselves. Vocational and technical training have been particularly stressed.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. Vocational and technical training, yes, but intellectual knowledge, no

The cry of the small-town teenager in English or history class is, "How is this going to help me get a job?"

[noel711]

8. "Small town values.." Another right wing code word...

for narrow minds, racism, and homophobia.

The description: "salt of the earth, hard working, family centered"
is what many campaigners used to describe the blue collar workers of the rust belt,
many of those are indeed urban centers.

Wanna know small town values?

I live in a very small rural village in PA.
Last night I did a search at

http://www.felonspy.com/search.html

A google map of the village popped up...

19 felons... 9 of them with sex offenses,
including child sodomy.

Small town values indeed.

I also did a search of the area of my work,
which is in the third largest city in PA...

IN the sinful city, 11 felons, 2 of them sex offenses.

But we won't hear about small town values that way...

[zanne]

9. In small towns people are friendly, warm and compassionate....

If you're just like everybody else.

[TexasObserver]

10. small town values are good and bad

They're good toward those who are accepted in the community, but bad toward those who aren't.

Anyone who is outside their range of toleration is quickly vilified.

[AirmensMom]

19. Not just vilified,

but cheated as well. We are close to a small town and have had a target on our backs since we got here. Get references, look up licenses, look at past work -- everything is fine until the newcomers hire them. I've never seen so many crooks posing as "good Christians" before. :grr:

[nichomachus]

11. I lived in a small town

55 sq mi, 2,000 people, three baptist churches, no stop lights, and a post office.

There were some good people there, but when people ask me why I left, I told them, because it was the year 2000 and in that town "fuckingqueer" was still one word.

Religion did play a big part in our town -- there were no other churches than the Baptists. One time they sent around a newsletter to every house in town. They told an inspiring story of a young man who had come to Jesus. Where he had gone astray was that he went to a secular college where he fell in with professors who forced the theory of evolution on him. That created a disrespect for life and led him to drugs, drinking, homosexuality, crime, being pro-abortion, and other liberal thoughts. It was only through the power of Jesus that he was able to throw off the yoke of Satan -- renounce all those hideous lifestyle choices -- and return to the Bible.

There's your small-town values.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. One thing that should become clear from the responses to this thread...

... is that there's no such thing as "the typical small town".

My hometown has about 3600 residents, and although it has its flaws, it is a great deal different from the town you lived in.

[roguevalley]

54. i love my little town. its close enough to anchorage to go be urban

for a while but sweet and quiet for me. but then I've lived in little towns all my life. I guess I am just 'missing' the right stuff elsewhere.

[rebel with a cause]

72. The worse small towns that I have lived in are

not as bad as indicated here. There has been racism, but there has been those who were not racist. There has been narrow minded people who do not like strangers, and there has been those who would go out of their way to help a stranger. There are those that are homophobic and there are gays who are accepted and loved. There are 'red necks' and there are liberals. There are the undereducated and there are those that are highly educated. There are people of all kinds to be found in small towns in my experience.

We have always locked our doors, especially at night. We have criminals, and we have honest people. I grew up the daughter of a minister, so I knew a lot of people's secrets that others didn't know. I worked in social services years later and know secrets now that not many others know. Trust me when I say we have all kind of people in these small towns.

And guess what! I found the same kind of people in the city. In fact, I found that the city was just a bunch of small towns (neighborhoods) that sit together to form a bigger community.

[lumberjack_jeff]

77. You touch on an important point

"The city is made up of a bunch of small towns"

The people in the city group themselves into their own interest groups. In the city, (it has been my experience) that you have little interaction with anyone who is not a parent at your kids school, or work where you do. You might know little about your neighbor.

In small towns, that's really not feasible. There are rednecks and bible thumpers and anarchists in small towns as well as big cities. In big cities, you aren't forced to associate with them, you can choose your own "community".

[rebel with a cause]

79. You don't have to associate with these people in a small town either.

I have never been friends with people that I don't like. I may chose to be alone, like I am now because of my health issues, or I may have friends with people that are like myself, but I have never been close to those that offend me.

Some how you are under the impression that in a small town you are forced to associate with people who you don't like. It is not so. We pick and chose who our friends are, just like people in the city do. When I was growing up, we had temporary neighbors who we might speak to but we were never what you say close to them because we had nothing in common with them. We were probably what you would call Bible thumpers, my father being a minister and all, but we did not force our religion on anyone else. Many of our neighbors were Catholic and we lived in a neighborhood that co existed in tolerance of our differences. None of us were rednecks. And this was a village.

I have lived where I am now for three years and I could not tell you who my neighbors are. I have friends in the next town over. I have friends in other towns that I have kept in contact with and now correspond with by email because they are as liberal as I am. I may speak (say hello in passing) to more people than I did in the city, but I don't interact with any more people than I did then. In fact, I would say I interact with less people because no one pushes themselves on you like they do in the city. Most people in small towns stick with their own, just like they do in the city. I have lived in both places and there are good and bad to both.

[lumberjack_jeff]

88. I should have said "interact".

My small town has about 3600 people. When I was on city council, I was forced to associate AND interact with a number of people whom I disagreed with and/or were significantly unlike me.

In a big city, I would not have been a councilperson. I could have worked at the organic produce co-op and interacted with the narrow slice of the public that this afforded me. I could thus conclude that cities are cool, and full of peace lovin' hippies just like me.

The only time I might be forced to reappraise that narrow view is if I were forced into small town life and had to buy my groceries at the little grocery store, bought stuff to fix things at the hardware store and stop for a pint at the bar.

Paradoxically, in many ways, small towns provide a more diverse view than cities, because you are unable to self-select your interactions.

I grew up in a small town, but I lived in Seattle for three years when I was first married. I decided that it sucked the day that a car passed me with a driver that I knew. Where I grew up, every third car going down main street was an acquaintance that I waved to, and who returned the wave. I had lived in Seattle (Mountlake Terrace, actually) for three years without that happening once.

Literally the only people my wife and I knew were people with whom we worked, our landlord and one neighbor. I imagine there were more than engineers and insurance agents in Seattle, but I have no way of knowing for sure.

[A HERETIC I AM]

12. "The only things there are for a teenager to do are drink, drug and fuck."

What an astoundingly well written, thoughtful post.

That sentence which I quoted in my subject line is, in my opinion, spot on.

Your admission that there were "Two churches and nine pubs" and asked "what does that tell you about small town values?" actually tells volumes. This is probably the case with most small towns in the US as well, with the exception of those in "dry" counties. Even then, there are always pubs and liquor stores right at the county line, catering to the residents of the dry county. It seems the struggle of the religious leaders of these towns for the meager income available is a struggle to wrestle those dollars away from the pubs and liquor stores.

It comes as no surprise to me that in the states with the least amount of sex education and the highest religious influence, the rates of teen pregnancy, young marriages that end in divorce and domestic violence are disproportionately higher than in areas where young people are taught birth control methods, educated properly and have a legitimate hope for the future.

[Prophet 451]

13. I forgot about sex ed

When I grew up, our school system was going through one of it's weird phases about sex ed. We got taught the biological facts, what a penis and vagina are (no such thing as a gay teenager, according to school boards) and how they fit together but we got zero education about contraceptives, a lecture about STDs that exagerated the dangers, a wildly innaccurate lecture about HIV/AIDS (to be fair, this was back in the "blind panic" days) and were sent on our way. Contraception wasn't mentioned, nor were rubbers as a guard against STDs, nor was homosexuality, nor was masturbation.

[quantass]

15. Now that is a fascinating write-up...

I am looking for books to understand the illogic of small-towns and how they think and to get a preview like this through this thread is amazing...from what i see Obama has no chance to get their vote...just wow!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

47. I've always planned on writing a book about my mis-guided move back home...

Recently divorced, living in the worst part of Phoenix, I decided I would move the boys and I back to my Hometown where they could grow up in a safe place with nice people.

Turns out my idyllic memories of my town were false. Adultery is rampant, despite having 11 churches and only two bars. Meth, pot, alcohol, and gossip about the neighbors seem to be the drugs of choice. My Great-Grampa was a boot-legger during prohibition, and my other Great-Grandpa was the Sheriff. When I moved back home as an adult, I finally heard the family stories that they don't tell the kids. Seems this town really hasn't changed much in 100 years.

After 3 years we moved back to the city. I felt like I could breathe again!

On edit: this was in the mid-west.. strong independent/conservative streak. However, reports from VivaMom say that there's a strong liberal faction growing, and people are really ticked about the economy and Shrub in general.

[ogneopasno]

16. If they're talking about my small town's values, I'm in.

We help each other out, we have good jobs (some of them union), we have a strong school with involved parents, friendly cops who know everybody, low crime, a strong library, no one really gives a rat's ass which church you go to (if you do at all). We have extremely high voter turnout in every election. But then, I live in the bluest county in a blue state. So I guess my small town is not the model they're looking for.

[lumberjack_jeff]

30. I love my small town too.

In my experience, individuals are more involved in civic affairs out of necessity.

And yes, I also live in about the bluest county in my blue state.

[comrade snarky]

59. Sounds a lot like my big city

I live in San Francisco and I'm incredibly tired of being told I'm somehow less of a person or not a true American because of it.

There is a arrogance that can come from both sides. People here can assume that everyone outside the City (or at least the Bay Area) must be rubes who probably sleep on straw and marry their sisters but then again there's an assumption that everyone in cities is a callus, perverted, monster who doesn't give a damn about the people around them.

About a year and a half ago a person in the Bay Area had a psychotic break and decided to drive to San Francisco and run down as many people as he could. He rammed people in his SUV then turned around to try and kill more people in the same block. Strangers opened up their apartments and pulled people they didn't know in off the streets and into their homes. Other people risked their lives, using themselves as bait to distract the driver from people who were wounded on the street.

That is San Francisco values.

Some people, republicans mostly, find the divide very useful in getting the small town vote. It's just another way to divide and distract.

[underpants]

17. Great post

People everywhere are the same-scared ignorant and misinformed

My best friends swears that the only thing he learned in high school (S.E. Virgina) was how to type.

[DailyGrind51]

18. Rent "Dogville" with Nicole Kidman to see a charicature of "American small town values"!

Believe me, this is a film you will only want to see once because it is so grim in its interpretation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogville

[lady raven]

20. My take on the beauty of a small town

I agree with the negatives above (and I say this from the small town I have lived in all my life, where I will probably stay).

I got to thinking about it last night, while I watched the Daily Show. When I think of positive small town values, I think:

People who all know each other and think of everyone as their neighbor.
People who look out for each other.
People who care about each other and come to the aid of their neighbor.
People helping others just because they need it.

To me, these small town values are, hands down, best embodied by the DEMOCRATIC party.

[Kansas Wyatt]

24. That is what the DEMOCRATS do not get.

Here on the DU, people that get their panties in a wad about small town people, but they fail to understand that the republicans are hi-jacking values of the Democratic Party with a widespread group of people to cash in votes.

I grew up in the country by a small town of 600. With what some here on the DU say about small town people, I clearly see why small town people would tell them to go fuck themselves and get the hell away from them. Or, immediately lump them in with big city people or elitists that wish them harm.

To those of you who think all small town people are racist morons.... You still need their votes. The last two elections proved that you could not win with big metropolitan areas alone. Now who is the dumb ass again?

[prayin4rain]

35. That's so true... they have hijacked our values...

I was thinking about that whole "liberal elite" label they keep using. My dad's family is as small town as it gets, all in their early sixties, and they describe themselves as yellow dog democrats. Back in the day the democrats were who the little people related to and the republicans were the "elites" in terms of money and looking down on everyone else. They have really flipped things so that we look the snobs and they look like the party that has a place for Bubba. It is weird how effective they have been at flipping everything. Liberal used to be equated with the everyman or even "below" the everyman and now liberal is equated with a PhD.

[Ex Lurker]

81. I wish DU'ers would understand that

but many of them clearly don't. There's a great deal of bigotry here. It's not based on race, sexual orientation, etc, but it's bigotry nonetheless. I read things here and just shake my head.

[hfojvt]

75. I think both the positive and negative can be over-stated

there are a lot of intelligent and open-minded people who either live in small towns, or grew up in small towns. To me though, 18,000 people is NOT a small town. It's a small city.

There are lots of people who do not look out for each other, lots of people who will stab a neighbor in the back, or watch (and sometimes laugh) while he/she falls or struggles.

To me they are just nicer places to live because they are quieter and allow for more solitude without constantly being swarmed by total strangers who are scurrying about their own business. And everything is not "fifteen or thirty minutes" away down super-fast and super-busy roads.

[Lyric]

21. Small town values, defined.

1. We hate the gays.
2. We hate women who don't do what we tell them to do.
3. We hate privacy; it's our God-given right to know your Goddamned business and judge you on it.
4. We hate people who make us feel guilty about being selfish, like poor people.
5. We hate anyone who doesn't look like us, unless they are self-hating enough to acknowledge our superiority.
6. We hate people who do not conform to our standard of "normal," period.

Fuck that. Give me big city liberalism, and all of its messy, beautiful, complicated liberty any day.

[DailyGrind51]

51. A "virgin" is defined as a girl who manages to outrun her brother!

[roguevalley]

55. that doesn't speak of any town I have lived in. But then, maybe

living in the pacific northwest is different than other places. my aunts were New Hampshire people and they still spoke of the 'outsiders' who had lived in their towns for three generations.

I have to laugh about the last line. its as stereotypical as small town comments.

RV, watching a zoot suit riot on teevee

[reggie the dog]

64. I can attest to small town life in 2 towns in France

One had Five thousand the other two thousand residents. At any rate people generally say hello when they pass each other in the streets but rarely went further than that. Rumors go around and sometimes they are true. This years rumors are that the shepard ripped off 3 growers crops of pot and that the new junkie in town ripped the pot gardens off. The good ole boys are still working on it but there were also the teenagers caught stealing from another guys garden, he got back all but two of his plants from them. Perhaps it was the same kids.

There was also the story about that one English guy who was new in town and his dog that were so mean to his neighbors cats. Once people came over and saw the dog PLAYING with the cats the word on the street has been that the English guys neighbor is nuts!

The local cop who is actual a rual cop sent to the village from time to time has been needed to fight such crime as???;;;; ah, no wait he helps direct traffic when their is a festival in town and genrally comes to watch the concerts in the street and not ask anyone what is inside their smokes. This kind of shit cold happen in any town, city, or farm region in the westernized world in my opinion and it is just my dumb luck to be in such a place now.

[roguevalley]

68. I hear some of the little towns in Europe have about zero turnover.

(same families for hundreds of years. they did a dna test on a skeleton they found near Cheddar in England that was 9000 years old and found out the teacher at the local school who helped round up local dna specimens was a direct ancestor. How about that? the oldest geneology in the world. :)

they remind me of the little desert towns in America that are sort of drying up. this sounds like Lakeview, Oregon.

[Sentath]

76. Damn! Thats amazing!

How the fuck did that happen? She gave birth to someone who died 9K years ago?

[roguevalley]

86. they found the skeleton and typed the DNA to a person living in the

village nearby that was a descendent. Did I say ancestor? Oh, my. BWAHAHAHA!

[reggie the dog]

85. turnover is ok in these two towns

but the three small towns where I got married do not, and the villages have even less turnover.

[lumberjack_jeff]

67. This is really harmful.

I often think that many DU'ers like losing.

[Ex Lurker]

82. That's complete Bullshit

it's no wonder we keep losing elections.

[MountainLaurel]

23. A great post, and terrific responses

I too grew up in a small town, and everything said here resonates. Small towns are great, if you're like everyone else and do what the hive expects of you. If you don't, by reading too much, not going to church or to the "right church," not being interested in getting wasted every weekend, not caring about the high school football team, whatever, then you're the enemy.

[happy2day]

33. Pot Meet Kettle

Some of these posts above are the Pot calling the kettle black
The Obama Backers hated the Hillery backers and why? because they didn't agree with their views but yet most of you villify small towns for the same thing.
I am from a small town and most of you people need to get a clue, maybe thats the reason I CAN'T make any headway when trying to get all my Republican Neighbors to vote Democrat.
My "Small Town" is about 50-50 on Democrat and Republicans, my main focus is on the Democrat Women that are jumping ship to vote for Sarah Palin, and they aren't jumping ship because of her "Small Town" label, they are jumping ship because she IS a Woman !
And fence sitters in these small towns will fall to the Republicans when they see and hear drivel and opinions like these talking BAD about small towns!
Maybe the small town opinions that "City People" are elitist because they look down their nose at small town people have some merit.
It is bullshit like this that does the damage and sways small town voters to defect to "The other side" ?
I tell my friends to come check this site out and their replies are that most of the things they read on here are "Out in right field" and they laugh about many of the "Theories" that are posted on this site, sometimes I HONESTLY think that WE are our own worst enemies.
I had 1 Woman come on here a week ago and she read the thread about Sarah Palins Baby is really Bristol's baby that was fathered by Bristol's father, she came into the break room and RAVED how lunatic this site was and their far fetched theories and I was ridiculed by her, then other people in the break room had the Woman send them the link, I was the laughing stock of the Plant when people read the thread, hence my comment that WE are our own worse enemy!
And now the thread saying small town people are uneducated racist hicks :mad: ;( as I said I AM from a SMALL TOWN and this just isn't the case.
I pray to GOD that my Co-Workers don't read this thread.

[MountainLaurel]

40. It may not be the case for you

But it is the case for a lot of people here, folks who grew up in small towns and who still live in them.

[Prophet 451]

41. Who's looking down their nose at whom?

In the last twenty years, I haven't heard a great deal of people mocking those small towners but I have heard a hell of a lot of small towners bitching about city-dwelling, latte-drinking librul elites. My dictionary defines "elitism" as the belief that those perceived as intellectually or morally superior should run things. Emphasise the word "morally" and you will see a damn sight more of that attitude coming from the small towns than was ever directed at them.

Secondly, I grew up in a small town and I've travelled a fair bit. A goodly portion of small towners are uneducated racists. You might live in an exception, good for you but the existence of an exception doesn't invalidate observations about the majority. It's got nothing to do with their views disagreeing with ours unless you consider racism and ignorance a worthwhile part of small town culture. Saying "you just don't like them because they're different" is like saying "you hate me for telling the truth", it completely ignores the possibility that they could be disliked for being jerks.

Perhaps, living in a small town, you appreciate this mytholgising of every small town to be something as moral, upstanding and all-American as Smallville but teh rest of us don't.

[tanyev]

44. "you people"?

I see.

[DailyGrind51]

71. I'm a life-long Chicagoan, but have family in small towns out West.

The adults like the slower pace, but their teens and "20 somethings" hate the intrusiveness. The first time I visited as an adult, it felt a bit creepy to have people I never met before call me by name, as if my arrival had been psychically transmitted to the hive.

[Fumesucker]

83. Their opinion will turn when it is found out that Bristol really is the mother..

Just wait, there is something truly strange going on in that family.

[HughBeaumont]

92. Having lived in 2 small towns . . .

the OP was pretty much right on the money. The same exact traits talked about there was what I grew up with in Vermilion, OH. Homophobia, all white, "drink, drug and fuck".

[lonestarnot]

25. Yer bidness is my bidness when people have no bidness.

[Annces]

26. Good post

That is one reason I like DU, everyone can express themselves here without a bully stopping them, be it parent, boss, sibling, or stranger.

[Douglas Carpenter]

27. I cannot altogether disagree, but it doesn't help with the political situation both countries have

to face.

I grew up in a town in Western Pennsylvania almost exactly the same size as Wasilla, Alaska and I know what you mean.

Still the world, all the world faces a very dangerous situation in which small town America is playing a pivotal role in determining the future of humanity. Unless some way can be found to build a progressive and Democratic Party base in small town America -- small town America could end up enabling the neoconservatives to wreck even greater destruction on all of humanity - far worse than anything we have already seen.

For the sake of humanity and the peace of the world, it is absolutely essential that this grip the right-wing holds over small town America be broken - by any means necessary - the peace of the world depends upon it.

2004 Electoral Map - county by county


http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. That won't happen by ridiculing/alienating "the ignorant hayseeds in flyover country". n/t

[Prophet 451]

42. or by them ridiculing the "pointy-headed elitists in Hollyweird" n/t

[annabanana]

61. I'd like to see this map adjusted for population density.

The biggest problem I have with this meme is that relatively FEW people have influence FAR BEYOND their numbers.

[treestar]

70. The map makes it look overly red because it has no way of

showing just how many people are crowded into those blue areas. Even Calif. looks mostly red, but most of the Calif. population would be living in the coastal areas.

It would be more accurate if there were some way to make a state physically larger because it has more people.

[BloodOfPatriots]

29. Good post

[carlyhippy]

34. spot on, I can relate

I just moved from a small town that was as much as you described. If someone moved into the town and was not from the area, or from another state, then that person was a foreigner in some minds and probably up to no good........the coffeeshop talk in the morning was more informing than the paper or the tv news, churches and bars on every corner downtown, and in general alot of ignorance and refusal to let any type of change come into their little village, alot of these folks would not even dare venture into a large city because they were too scared to go. It was an interesting experience to say the least...there were some good points, though...not too much crime, if someone needed help, there were plenty of people willing to lend a hand. I guess after having lived in a large city then a small one like this one, I can see all sides of the issue, there are good points and bad points. I myself like living in a larger city because of the selection of places to shop, eat, things to do, housing choices, job choices, etc.

[lunatica]

36. Don't forget gossip

It rivals drinking and homophobic hatred as the small town's favorite pastime. And church isn't all about singing hymns and worshipping Jaysus, it's about who sits in the have's and have more's pews, the quality of the preacher's ass licking ministering, and for my aunt (who I think personifies small town mentality), it was about who wore what, who didn't show up, who was pregnant out of wedlock and who hated her for having the riches man as a boyfriend. For all the world she appeared to be a good person who visited the poor and the sick regularly but at home she would fill the rest of family in on every sordid detail of every person in the county, and she would remember details in great gossipy relish about everything that had happened for the last 50 years. In this small town your past sins define and brand you forever.

And your families sins, whether recent or from a former generation also defines you.

[MountainLaurel]

39. Oh, you got that right

I once overheard a 15-minute conversation between my grandmother and her best friend over who doesn't wash their curtains on a regular basis.

[mudesi]

37. You speak truth (nm)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. I lived in a small town for seven long years

It was bearable only because of the presence of the college where I taught, and then just barely.

The schools were actually pretty good, but that was because the college professors put pressure on the school board to offer a challenging curriculum. Nearby small towns did things like cutting music and art to save the football team.

But what you say about teen pregnancy (I met lots of 35-year-old grandmothers at the gym) and racism (against Latinos in that case) rings true.

The local paper was unabashedly Republican and consisted of reports of car accidents, ads for sales at local stores, and editorials expressing cultish adoration of the Republican party.

Despite their self-declared community spirit, they were quick to abandon their charming downtown with its locally owned stores for WalMart and the rest of the national chains, so much so that the commercial strip north of town grew a full two miles in length in ten years.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

46. My little home town made national news recently

A man from Mexico, who'd been living and working in that town for six years, living with a young woman with whom he had two kids, who worked 2 or 3 jobs at a time to provide for his family here and back in Mexico, was kicked and beaten to death by a trio of teenage boys.

Do you know how hard you have to hit and kick someone to cause their death?

Fortunately, this incident was witnessed by more than one resident, and the shouts of "Go back to Mexico, you fucking Spick," and "Tell your friend to stay the fuck out of our town, you fucking illegal" as the boys - two of them football players, all of them drunk and underage - beat the man to death.

Yes, he was here illegally. That's not relevant to the matter here.

I left that small town years ago, and, a few years ago, when I was planning a trip back, an old friend - he'd been the editor of the newspaper - told me not to go. He still lived there, and he knew what he was talking about. The town I remembered growing up in - it was a great place to grow up - was no longer there.

Today, my home town exemplifies the worst of small town America, and those thugs have ruined it forever for me.

http://latinolikeme.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/the-death-of-luis-ramirez-and-shenandoah-pa/

[closeupready]

48. I grew up in a Midwestern small town, and it will be a cold day in Hell before I return to one

The only exception would be one in France, perhaps, or one where a non-Anglo culture prevails. Seen enough of small towns for one life.

[lithiumbomb]

49. my mom currently lives in a small town

On one hand it's a nice place, about an hour outside of Atlanta. However it's got the horribly corrupt mayor, encroaching suburbs, poor schools, the school bus driver/mom's gardener was imprisoned a few years ago for child molestation, and of course racism - some neighbors recently told her they had gone to the local shooting range "where the darks are." Where the "darks" are? What decade is this? The whites of course live on one side of the tracks, the african-americans on the other.

Not that small towns are horrible place to be of course. They have lots of nice qualities as well. But they're not the utopia that Republicans seem to make them out to be. They've got their own sets of problems just like everywhere else.

[Patiod]

50. "Patiod, why don't Jews celebrate Easter?"

True question from a girl in my sorority, addressed to me because I "read a lot"

She grew up in a coal-mining town where EVERYBODY was Catholic. Not only were there no Jews, but there were no Protestants either.
:scared:

A client sent me an e-mail about "the war on Christmas", and I asked him "did you grow up in a small town where everyone was Christian?" He admitted he did. All I could say (this was a client) was "well, 1/3 the people in the town where I grew up were Jewish, so this saying 'Merry Christmas' to everyone thing wouldn't have gone over all that well." I couldn't specifically imply that he had parochial world view (not cool in our industry where GLOBAL is EVERYTHING) but if he chose to infer it, that was up to him.

[Berry Cool]

52. It's wrong to assume you know everything about someone, period, just based on geography

or the size of the town they come from.

Small towns have their good and bad points. Big cities have their good and bad points. It's wrong to mythologize small towns as being full of nothing but virtue, or as full of nothing but evil and ignorance. It's wrong to paint cities as either dens of iniquity or the source of all sophistication, intelligence and excitement.

But people fall for this crap because it's mental shorthand. It allows them to not have to think except in terms of stereotypes rather than complexities. It means they can know one thing about a person and then say they know "all" about that person. "She's from a small town--I know she must be decent and God-fearing" or "She's from a small town--I know she must be ignorant redneck trailer trash." "He's from a big city--I know he must be smart, savvy, knowledgeable and accomplished." "He's from a big city--I know he must be slick, cold, shrewd, concescending and ready to take advantage of me."

It's nonsense. But it means one can conveniently avoid having to get to know people as individuals, which takes time and research.

[Prophet 451]

84. Yes, it is

(feeling less beligerent this morning)

What I'm pissed about and protesting here is the fetishizing of "small town values" as paragons of virtue, like every small town was Smallville and every urban city was Sin City.

[Odin2005]

56. All those social evils are not more common in small towns, they are just EXPRESSED more.

Bigotry and ignorance is NOT more common in small towns, it is just that it is easier to express one's bigotry and ignorance.

I grew up in a tiny farming town of 500 people and in my experience much of the problems of Small Town America stem from it being economically depressed, people use booze, meth, and sex to drown-out their problems and bigotry emerges from looking for someone to blame for thier problems. These social pathologies lead to religious craziness as people try to free themselves from the guilt and shame of thier pathological behavior. Poor rural communities are the distorted mirror image of poor inner-city neighborhoods.

[BreweryYardRat]

57. A small town produced my mother, a city produced my father.

My mother is a total control freak, and bigoted against anyone who's not a white Christian or Jewish.

My father, while also something of a control freak, is much less so than my mother, and he's not bigoted at all.

Enough said.

[reggie the dog]

60. I prefer the countryside

because there are less people period. I grew up in the close suburbs of Chicago, in a town called Elk Grove Village where I was pretty much ostracised for being the son of a mechanic and wearing "working class" clothing like jeans and t shirts while the other kids were mostly into their designer clothes. Seeing as my family didn't have 100 dollars for Nikes, another 100 dollars for Z Cavarichi pants and another 100 dollars for an IOU sweatshirt I constantly got shit for how I looked. I also got bullied and picked on for having good grades but luckily found some metalheads who helped me fight back against the jocks. I noticed in small towns that the jocks still fucked with the intellectuals and freaks but there were many many less kids who had designer clothes. I tended to feel more comfortable in a farming community of 300 on summer vacation at great grandmas farm than back in the suburbs.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. It's small town mythology. Like "Traditional American Values".

A yearning for a non-existent "Good Old Days" a la Mayberry, USA, with Aunt Bea cookin' pies for Barney and the jovial town drunk in the slammer

Ironically, the right that believes all that crap really existed, calls the left "Utopian".

[reggie the dog]

63. "The only things there are for a teenager to do are drink, drug and fuck."

that is so true everywhere

[TrogL]

65. Sounds like my small town

If you weren't a member of one of three families, you were dirt. They were the owners of the lumberyard, chemical plant and grocery store.

[treestar]

69. Also most Americans today live in suburbs

Maybe they are romanticizing the small town, but there's a risk of alienating people. Who wants to hear about how other people are so much better just because they live somewhere?

[samuraiguppy]

73. excellent post!

I wouldn't live in a small town if you paid me. And I cringe every time I hear the words "small town" values.

YICK

[uppityperson]

74. I live near a different small town, very blue, open minded, artistic, accepting town & love it here.

Yes, there are cliques. Yes there are narrow minded people, bigots and the not very together and tweakers. But most of the people here are decent people, most are open minded. Lots to do, from physical activities (mts, forests, ocean/beaches) to artistic things (music, acting, dance, painting, etc). A community college branch, a wooden boat school and a massage school. A very active UU church and peace group. Homeless and tweakers, kids drinking and having sex. There are adults who are bored and women who put on makeup to go out to the bar to shoot pool (woohoo! high times!) but there is also a big dancing group that puts on public dances monthly and classes weekly, a marimba group, a couple teen circus groups. The town income rests on a few industries, and it is difficult to find things you need in town like boys socks or blankets, having to travel 30 min to go to a bigger town with department stores.

Yes, there are bored and boring people, but there are also many of us who aren't, including the kids. Lots of gay men and lesbians. Lots of people who are enjoying life, from kids to the elderly.

Yes, it can be boring for kids and thanks to a few creative and active adults (and those of us helping) there are artistic and social/community things to do besides drinking and having sex.

I've lived in a small town that was like the one you talk about in your OP. Perhaps this one is different because many of us chose to move here, to be involved, to be part of a small enough community we could be involved and actually make a difference.

[SteelPenguin]

78. I grew up in a village of 1,500 people

The nearby town had about 10k. I called the 4 story building (tallest in that town) a skyscraper and my parents thought it was cute. It was about as small town Americana as you can get. Annual fireman's carnival, whole village marching in the July 4th parade, little league, etc. The town hall was the library as well as a couple other things. I remmember reading hardy boys books there.

Yet it still shocked me when only a few years ago while visiting, I heard the word 'colored' used in conversation.

Borderline Norman Rockwell Americana...mixed with a heavy batch of racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and really really really bad haircuts...Seriously...I don't get it. They get TV like the rest of us. They should know their haircuts are out of style.

[COLGATE4]

87. Another "Small town value"

I am in complete agreement with the previous posters here. Small town values are highly overrated. Another 'small town value' the Rethugs appeal to with Gidget is anti-intellectualism. I grew up in a very small town (pop. 2,000) in Upstate New York and went all through school with today's 'Hockey Moms' and "Joe Sixpacks', many of whom are lifelong friends. However, the current of contempt for anyone who had more than a High School education was always latent - one of the favorite sayings around the bar on a given night, talking about the University students and/or Professors was to identify them as "Educated Fools". This is a perfect club to hit Obama with, and the small town values Queen lets them play tight into it.

[Prophet 451]

89. Well said

As I said, it starts in school and continues all through life.

[OBrien]

90. hey 451 I've been to Brixham!

My husband and I lived in London for three years. We loved to walk and did the coastal walk from Kingswear to Brixham. I agree about small town life, but I have to say ,that area is stunningly beautiful!

[Prophet 451]

91. Only to visitors

Like a lot of small towns, Brixham is stunning to visit during summer but during winter, the wind comes straight off the channel, unemployment doubles and half the town closes up. Also, there's a lot of drugs come through that harbour and Devon has the highest cost of living and the second lowest wages in the country.

[OBrien]

93. I understand

It was a crystal clear day. The winters in England can be so unbearable, but I do love your country so.

[ColbertWatcher]

94. What defines a "small town"?

I live in LA, so I have no concept of what a small town is.

Is it a population less than a certain number?

Is it a town no bigger than a certain square milage?

BTW, I could never live in a small town. I fear there would not be a wide enough variety of restaurants. Probably just hamburgers and such, maybe a Taco Bell.

But, no Indian food or real Mexican food.

Sorry, that's a deal breaker.

[Prophet 451]

95. Good question

My rational side says that it's about population. My (much larger) cynical side says that it's about a particular mentality.

Incidently, the town I grew up in didn't even have hamburgers. There was a derelict Wimpy that hadn't been open in forever, seven chip shops and one Chinese takeaway (run by white people, naturally).

[ColbertWatcher]

96. Chinese takeaway run by white people?

What did they serve?

Was it any good?

[Prophet 451]

97. The usual and not really

To this day, I'm convinced that most of their food was microwave stuff from the local Iceland.

[ColbertWatcher]

98. Aww, that's too bad.

I've had some really good Sze Chuan out here.