Why men are not asked the "children question"..

[SoCalDem]

Our society (until very recently) has been one where women have assumed the MAJORITY role in child-rearing..It may not be PC to say it, but it's still TRUE.

Birth control pills did not come onto the scene until the late 60's, and before that , sexually active females played calendar roulette every month, and often ended up with more children than they would have preferred to have, given a choice.

Women who came of age after the pill, were also coincidentally the BOOMERS, who also attended college in much higher numbers than ever before..hence the dilemma.. A woman gets a 4 year college experience, sees vistas her mother could only have dreamed of, and of course she wants to take advantage of using that education..

The rub is that once she enters the career pathway, her time and energy that would have been devoted to raising 4-6 kids, is now diverted somewhat.

Maybe she can see her way clear to have one or maybe two, but even with a full time career, or a non-career job, Mom STILL did (and even now,does) assume the major responsibility for dental visits, doctors' appointments, sleep-overs, school functions, clothes shopping, cooking/meal planning/food-shopping, laundry, housework, etc.

It's no surprise that modern women do not have as large of families anymore.

Every woman who has a family and a career, has conflict, because she is the one who "stepped off the traditional pathway". Men's pathways have never really changed. they go to school, they get a job/career, they get married, they have a family that they support, they mow the lawn, take care of the cars, maybe barbecue from time to time, but MOM is still in charge of the kids..

Unless a woman has a very high powered/paid job, a husband's promotion that means a transfer, will mean that the family moves..

People are tethered to their health-care benefits (if they are lucky to even have them), and men's jobs count for more (usually). It's the rare family where Mom earns more, and Dad stays home, unless Dad's self-employed and CAN work from home..

When a man applies for a job or runs for office, his parental obligations are not mentioned much because he does not grow a baby in his belly, take time off for maternity leave, come back to work sad and lonely for the baby, or need to take breaks to express milk and call home.. Later on, he is usually not the one who gets the call from the school nurse to come and get a sick kid...

It is still assumed that any children of the man being considered, will have a Mom, who is taking care of those kids..

Does that mean that Dads don't love their kids as much? Nope.. It's just that biologically, females have always been the designated caretaker for young, whether it's humans or animals..(with the exception of a few animal kingdom rarities).

Women often feel conflicted, no matter where they are, because they are now expected to be able to and to want to "do it all". Men have not had that "choice", and maybe had they, they would not have welcomed it. Childcare is HARD work, tedious work, messy work, and mostly unrewarded work (financially)..

We are only 1 generation into the "women in the upper working class" thing. Women have ALWAYS done work outside the homes when financial disaster befell the family, but the high-power career woman is a relatively new thing, so I am not surprised that society has not figured out where the new PC boundaries are.

All that said....

A woman with a 4 or 5 month old handicapped baby to care for, a 7 yr old & two teen-aged daughters (one pregnant?), running for the 2nd highest job in the world, is a bit much.

Should she have the right to choose to run? Absolutely, but she also must be aware that she will catch flak from at least half of the people , all of the time, and the flak may come from both halves, at different times.

[H2O Man]

1. Valid points.

Well said.

[Captain Hilts]

2. Women have "assumed" child-rearing duty? It's been forced on a lot of women, trust me.

Women were forced to have more children than they wanted - birth control was still illegal in Connecticut in the 70s.

Women were kept out of the workplace and couldn't even serve on juries in NYState until the 1960s.

[SoCalDem]

3. assumed, as in taken it on.. whether willing or not

:evilgrin:

[Captain Hilts]

6. You're using the passive while my term is more active.

[trotsky]

4. And it would be a bit different in this case, if Palin's husband was stepping into that role.

But he's not. He's busy with his career too.

And finally, it's the REPUBLICANS, not the Democrats, who have ALWAYS harped on the necessity of raising the children "right", with the mother in the home and the dad being the breadwinner. I think we as Dems have the right to point out that they're not following their rhetoric.

[Alcibiades]

7. The Enquirer article

Said that Palin's daughters are not comfortable talking with some sorts of things with their dad, perhaps because he seems the sort who would shoot their boyfriends if he knew the truth?

[kayell]

17. Their mom kinda seems that way too. nt

[tanyev]

8. Well, I was going to comment,

but you said everything I was thinking. A lot more concisely, too. :)

[marshall]

16. Not much ice fishing or snow machine riding going on in DC, is there?

I wonder what sort of career he would start on if he were to move to DC?

[emmadoggy]

33. Exactly. nt

[emmadoggy]

38. Ooops. wrong place.

[pampango]

5. Much of what you say is true, but I still get very uncomfortable telling a woman

that her family needs her too much for her to consider taking a high-powered job.

I understand that "life is unfair" and people will think whatever they will think. Palin (and many other women, I'm sure) probably understands this. That doesn't make it right or acceptable.

This is a dangerous road to go down, since it could also be used against minority groups (race, sexual orientation, disability, etc.) that "life is unfair" and we have to be "realistic" about what people think.

[SoCalDem]

9. People have always made unpopular choices

and in the end it's up to them. Jobs do have qualifications, and attention to detail is often one that's overlooked. There is only so much that one person can or should have to cope with. Can some people cope with more than others? sure.. but if I need someone who is going to have to be "on call" 24-7, I would probably want to know that they were available, and would not be feeling like they "needed" to somewhere else, or that someone else had claims to that same time that their job "required"..

People will always "want" to do things that they may not be "able" to do.. and sometimes it's just timing that makes the difference.. A woman with 5 kids under 18, is more likely to have more obligations than a woman whose youngest is 16..could be that same woman..just a few years down the line.

Being in the right place in your life, is part of taking advantage of an opportunity.. It's still her choice, in the end.

And as easily as the white house keeps secrest and coevr things up, any failings would never be known to us anyway :evilgrin:

[Justice]

10. As Sally Quinn said, there is a also a tipping point here

Sarah Palin doesn't have "a" child - she has 5 children. One is pregnant and one is a special needs infant. You can't just say, a child.

Also, I agree that if Todd Palin was a dad who worked 9-5 or whose job didn't take him far away for weeks or days or months - that he could be more of the primary parent.

What will they do if Palin is VP. Will Todd and all of the kids move to DC? Will Todd give up his jobs?

[SoCalDem]

13. Todd's a boy-man.. He likes to play.. n/t

[Alcibiades]

11. I'm a stay-at-home dad

There are actually millions of us now. While what you say is true, people's lives are often changing in ways that are not well recognized. Social change happens before it is integrated into the culture. Precisely the same forces you mention, the increased education of women, their increased ability to work outside the home, and the tethering of families to whoever it is who has a job with health insurance, that have produced the phenomenon of the stay-at-home dad. Attitudes among men have changed as well. I know some dads who do my job who don't do it well, mainly because they don't see working at being a homemaker as something that has the same value as paid work outside the home. I'm 40, and was raised by a mom who was a single mother, a feminist and a working mom. I suspect that a lot of us were raised by moms like mine. It's quite possible that part of the social reaction to the phenomenon of people being raised in families where no one stayed at home is that we will work it so that someone, often the father, is able to stay at home. I've had full-time jobs ever since I was 18, and have been a stay-at-home dad for three years. If you actually make the effort to do the work correctly, the homemaker role is the more difficult one, which is part of the reason why we don't see more dads doing it--I think many of us have suspected this for a long time.

It was not simply ever thus. In the Colonial era, the education of children was seen as primarily the father's task. In an agrarian society, there was simply a lot more time for folks to spend with their children, including fathers. It was in the Victorian age, when men started working outside the home or family shop in large numbers, that childrearing became the sole job of the mother. It's not simply biological, it's also cultural and historical in origin.

I do hang with a lot of mothers, most of whom intend to go back to work when the kids go to school. What they tell me is that the part of the Palin story that's incredible isn't the decision to stay on the job: it's the part where she starts leaking amniotic fluid at 36 weeks, finishes her time at the conference anyway, and then boards a plane to deliver in Alaska. That's the part of the story that does not ring true to most moms. If you're 36 weeks pregnant with a high risk pregnancy and you start leaking amniotic fluid, or so they tell me, you don't do what Palin did: you drop everything and go to the hospital.

[SoCalDem]

14. And as more and more jobs "leave" , more Dads will get caught

in it, and become caretakers..

My husband is a great baby-wrangler, and actually had more patience than I did, but many dads miss out on their kids' young years, and do get to make it up later on..

Fifty years from now things may be completely different.. They are changing, but al long as enough of the higher-ups who control hiring are still stuck with one foot on both sides of the evolutionary chasm, we'll still have "debates" about it..

I learned long ago, that you CAN have it all..just not always all at the same time:evilgrin:

[Alcibiades]

20. The best thing about being a stay at home dad

Is that my wife handles the breadwinner role very well, working 9-5 and still making time for our kid (the one we have and presumably the next one, due in 3 weeks). Although I don't make my wife do a "second shift" cleaning and cooking, she's much more involved than most of the working husbands I know (OK she does do some cooking, but a lot of dads do that, too). I take pride in keeping my house cleaner than most of the moms I know, and not letting the TV raise my kid. Men are fully capable of doing the work--the thing is, you need to have the same attitude about it you would at a "real" job.

I was finishing my dissertation when my wife became pregnant. She had (and still has) a good-paying job with benefits, so this just made more sense for us. I worry sometimes about this big gap in my resume, about the years of retirement contributions I'm losing out on, but when I hear some of the horror stories about daycare I know we're doing the right thing. I do think many people who could do this don't even consider it--when you add up the daycare costs, the costs of eating out more, and all the costs associated with commuting and going to work, it's not as bad financially as many folks seem to think. The problem is that many folks don't have this option, and both need to work.

[Lars39]

21. You need good disability insurance.

Any sort of long-term gap and you won't be eligible for disability on your own. A lot of people are finding that out the hard way. :(

[SoCalDem]

25. I hear you,.. I had a job offer, in fact the guy offered me more than he paid

normally, but i could not afford to go to work. I had 3 kids under 5 (the oldest with medical problems that meant a 6 wk stay at Mayo Clinic, two or three times a year)... andf even with the extra he offerd, after child care and the expenses that go with a job, I would have netted about $80 a month more than the babysitter..and would have had to schlepp 3 little kids out into snowy mornings..

That.. and I enjoyed my "lazy housewife" stage.. I did it until the youngest was in school all day, and then I took part time work..

My ladies' bowling team was named "Worthless Housewives".. We liked our free time.. our lunch bunch,, bridge twice a week, swimming at the club, naptime.. We were the worthless housewives :evilgrin:..

Our husbands traveled, so we were lucky.. the day before dad came home, we all got very busy :rofl:

[emmadoggy]

41. "you CAN have it all..just not always all at the same time."

I totally agree with that and that is why I take issue with Palin. I don't begrudge her the opportunity - I just don't think that the timing is right for her. She is only 44, she has very young children at home and two in exceptional circumstances, and she has very limited experience for the job she is trying to take on. I just think that, again, it shows poor judgement on her part, that she didn't say, "Wow, you know I am extremely flattered and excited that you have asked me, but the time is just not right. I'm still new at my job as Governor and don't feel I'm finished with that yet and I have children who really need a fully present mother right now. But I would be thrilled to be considered again in 2016!"

If you choose to be a parent, those are just the types of choices you have to make. Sometimes you simply have to put the needs of your children and family ahead of your career ambitions, or more specifically, keep the career ambitions on simmer until your children are not as dependent on you. Not that you can't HAVE a career, just that there are limits to how much you can reasonably take on and still be a present and involved parent to your children. The children didn't choose to be born, the parent made that choice and therefore, need to stay true to the commitment they made when bringing them into the world.

And as others have said - it doesn't matter to me which parent it is. If Todd Palin was going to be the more hands-on parent in this situation, I would have no problem with that. But it seems his job keeps him away from the family a lot too, and those kids deserve to have at least one parent present there with them on a daily basis - you know, there to help with homework, have dinner with them, hang out with them, take them to their appointments and activities, and just be present for them. It's not clear at this point, if that's going to happen.

[emmadoggy]

39. You make some great points and

can I just say that you sound like a fantastic father. I'm a SAHM and it is a very tough, but rewarding, job. And as you say, you know some dads who don't do your job well, I think I am a mom who doesn't do it particularly well either. I really admire the people who really do it well, so kudos to you.

And I would agree with your last sentence - her judgement in that situation was scary-bad and is very disturbing to me.

[SmokingJacket]

12. If there was a stay-at-home dad, it would be totally different.

I strongly believe a Down Syndrome newborn needs full-time love and attention from a parent -- either parent.

If Obama had a special needs newborn and Michelle was out at the oil fields for two weeks at a time, I'd be troubled indeed.

The Palins' weird heartlessness is just indicative of the heartlessness of that whole party.

[LeftishBrit]

15. Personally, I think men *should* be asked the 'children question'

I'll admit it: I do feel rather uncomfortable about a candidate who has five kids, including a baby with special needs, being so ready to go on the campaign trail at the same time as governing a state very far away from most of the campaign. She seems extremely macho in the wrong way, and probably rather unrealistic about her plans.

But I would feel pretty much the same way about a father in the same position.

Both our Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition have young children, including one with special needs in each case. Our former PM was father of a newborn baby while in 10 Downing Street. And none of them have been asked the same questions. Which makes it seem unfair.

I think there *is* a real difference between Brown and Palin on this: Brown is not simultaneously governing one place and campaigning over long distances, mostly thousands of miles from where he is living. Also, he does not have a pregnant daughter and a son about to go to war, along with the young children. So his situation is in fact much less extreme. Nevertheless, I think the issue should be seen as relevant to all political parents, regardless of gender.

[kayell]

18. Yes. You speak my mind also. nt

[Gormy Cuss]

36. Quite right.

When a male political candidate has young children, no one asks whether it will affect their care or his role as a parent. I'm sure that the norm is for children to be under the care of nannies or relatives while the smiling couple are on the campaign trail and that once in national government the children see very little of that parent. Palin should be accorded the same level of scrutiny as men who have run for similar offices. That said, I think it odd that parents of a newborn would want to take on this grand disruption in their lives.

[emmadoggy]

43. "I think it odd that parents of a newborn would want to take on this grand disruption..

in their lives".

That's the part I have a hard time wrapping my head around too. The fact that a person in her circumstances would even WANT to do this. Isn't being Governor enough of a challenge and high-powered opportunity?

Of course, Palin seems to not even know what the VP does so maybe she has no clue just how demanding and time consuming it will be. :crazy: :dunce:

[SoCalDem]

45. Sarah & Todd strike me as very narcissistic.. She's used to flirting her way to the top

and he's a boy-man who wants to "play outside"..No doubt they are hot for each other, but somewhere along the line all these kids popped into their lives, and I don't think they are enjoying it one bit.. They just want to do their own thing, look great and occasionally jump each other's bones....

There are some people who just aren't good parents. having children does not necessarily make you a "parent".. It might technically, but there's more to parenting than putting a roof over their heads, clothing & feeding them..

Todd & sarah are quite used to "farming them off" onto family members, and apparently they are not even all living together in the "mansion" in Juneau..

[SheilaT]

19. Keep in mind that

while Palin has five children, the oldest is now in the army and the second one is pregnant and soon to be married. Plus, anyone who's raised kids knows that by the time they're 16 or 17 they are certainly not requiring, nor putting up with, a lot of hands on parenting.

And fair or not, whether taken on willingly or forced upon them, in the majority of cases it is the mom who is the chief provider and caretaker of the kids, no matter what kind of outside the home job she might also have.

And it is valid to ask who the hell is actually taking care of her kids on a day to day basis, more so now that she'll be campaigning for the VP slot -- well, who's to say that's what she's actually going to do now that she's scurried back to Alaska by the close of the convention. I have no problem with families hiring child care help, but only if they are honest about it. Keep in mind that the Democratic model of hands-on parenting, Jackie Kennedy, always had a nurse, governess, and au pairs when her two children were growing up. You just never saw them (other than the baby nurse, Mrs. Shaw) in any photos.

And hats off to all the dads who are stay at home full time parents. But doesn't that pretty much underline the notion that there ought to be a full time stay at home parent? Or at least that's the common perception of what's best.

[elehhhhna]

22. furthermore, she doesn't use birth control & is at risk for another high-risk pregnancy.

flame away but facts are facts.

I am a woman who was told *BY A WOMAN Sr. VP* in '98 that I didn't get the presidency of our Atlanta branch becasue I was pregnant. Bear in mind it was my second child & hubs was already staying home w/ the first full-time. I KNOW what a pantload it is to be on the bad end of this kind of bullshit thinking...however, we're talking President of the US here and Sarah's problems at home, special needs child AND fertility/possible future pregnancies are a reality.

[Dorian Gray]

26. So it was done to you

so it's okay to do to her?

Are you railing against that or justifying that type of thinking.

Look, I dislike Palin immensely! She's dangerous for this country, and I want absolutely no part of her Christianity associated with the Oval Office. Her conservatism scares me, as she is an extension of Bush's white house. I in no way want McCain/Palin to win.

Having said that, I find this topic really perplexing to me. I would think that most of us would support her right to work in the White House. Imagine if this were a Democratic Candidate and the Republicans were spouting this BS about how she should stay at home to take care of her kids, as it's her role? And that's just the way things work? I would be absolutely livid. I'm actually getting livid thinking that people here are saying the same thing.

Attack her positions. They provide enough anti-feminist fodder. But her role as a mother making her VP candidacy unpalatable? Ugh. Just no!

[elehhhhna]

29. Just raising the point. You're absolutely right, of course,

but her hypocrisy and prideful ignorance annoy me so I'll throw anything I can at her.

[Dorian Gray]

31. I totally understand

your dislike for her. I dislike her immensely, myself. I just really want to avoid throwing anything at her that would enrage me if turned around on us. I'm glad you understood where I was coming from and didn't think I was attacking you!

:)

[elehhhhna]

34. I was actually guilty of what I was a victim of. Hate to admit it but truefacts are true.

thx for a gentle slap upside the head, Dorian.

[badgerpup]

53. Call me sexist...

...but MHO is that having a President become pregnant while in office is a very, very BAD IDEA. :hide::yoiks:

If you're gestating, you don't need the hassle of the whole damn country on your shoulders.
What you've got growing inside is going to give you enough what with the biological and hormonal changes...and they DO affect cognition!

For the easiest example, try talking with somebody (M or F) who hasn't been able to sleep very well for a few weeks running.
Be gentle, but be ready to run.

I honor and respect women who choose to be mothers...don't know how you guys do it :patriot:
but I really don't want someone who's gestating in charge of the country.

One thing or the other. Not both at the same time.

[knitter4democracy]

23. She's not just a regular working mom, though.

Most working moms I know (I'm a SAHM) aren't running a state, raising five kids (including a special needs infant), and running for vice president. This is just ridiculous--she can't do all of that well, and stuff's going to slip through the cracks.

My question is whether she really thought this through or not. We've seen from her story about Trig's labor and birth that she makes crappy decisions in crisis situations, especially when her political career's involved. What's she going to do if Trig needs surgery? Will she take a break from campaigning? Will she be okay with Todd taking care of all of it? Where is Trig going to be anyway? He's at higher risk of infection, so the safer bet would be to keep him home, but with her supposedly nursing, she'd have to take him with her (all those plane flights and radiation exposure, all those bus and car trips and infections--not the best place for a baby).

And then there are her daughters. Bristol obviously really needs her mom right now, and Mom's gone. Heck, she threw her daughter under the bus with that pregnancy announcement crap. She could've handled the story without telling the world that her daughter's pregnant, and she didn't have to force her daughter to marry that loser (sorry, based on his Myspace page, he's not someone I'd want my daughter to marry). Instead of putting Bristol's needs first, she put her own first.

And where the hell is Todd, anyway? They've been farming their kids out (Track sent here to Michigan to finish his senior year of high school--4000 miles and 7 hour flight away--and Bristol sent to live with her grandparents hours away in Wasilla) because he just didn't want to be the stay-at-home dad anymore. Couldn't cut it. That's fine, but what about being a dad at all? Where the hell has he been for those kids?

[emmadoggy]

44. Absolutely. Especially the first part. nt

[Dorian Gray]

24. I understand the biological roles

are different between men and women, and you have me all the way up to making a judgement on SP about choosing to work, despite having her kids.

I don't like her, but that is a judgment I am in no way comfortable making about another woman's choice to work, no matter how many children she has. It is so wound up in gender stereotypes, and I would be appalled to see Republicans bandying this about one of our candidates if we had a female mother of five running as VP.

[SoCalDem]

27. I'm not judging her.. It IS her choice.. Society will judge her though

and her kids will judge her too.. It's her choice to run though, and she will bear any consequences.

It's moot though, because I doubt they will win:)

We will be seeing Mrs Moose in the future though, and the next time she won't have those small kids.. Trig will probably be living with Bristol , Willow will probably be married off, and Piper will be in Wasilla living with Sarah's sister..count on it..

[badgerpup]

28. Thank you for posting this!

I was thinking -seriously- about this question last night.

I chose to not have children, so don't know if I have the right to kick in on this. I do wonder though, how much I've bought into the 'woman's place is in the home'? Subconciously, I mean.

Sarah Palin has been very involved in politics and has four or five children. The youngest is 4 months old, and a "special needs child". This means he'll need more attention than a 'normal' child (which is plenty and a half!) will in order to reach his full potential and highest level of functioning...and he'll need this attention starting NOW, not 2, 3, or 10 years from now.

Two of the other kids are pretty young as well.
What I'm on about is WHO IS RAISING AND TAKING CARE OF THESE CHILDREN?
Mom will be out doing VP stuff, whatever that may be, and apparently their father is gone for several weeks at a time.

Of course, they'll be able to afford nannies, mannies, what-have-you in the way of parent-surrogates...
But this is a question that isn't just financial; it has to do with commitment.
WHY ARE PEOPLE HAVING CHILDREN IF THEY CAN'T OR WON'T TAKE CARE OF THEM??

I take no issue with a woman (or primary parental unit) being involved with intensive outside activities (I'm excluding gainful employment here- I do live in the Real World)...but if you're gonna have kids, then the KIDS MUST COME FIRST.

Usually (hopefully!) by mid to late teens, kids are able to assume some responsibility for themselves and don't need to be led by the hand anymore. Then "Mom" can become "Sarah" and follow her own interests, but until then, by bringing it into the world, there's been a commitment made to that child that must be honored and fulfilled.

As I said, I don't know if I've got the right to kick in...but it just really pisses me off and breaks my heart when people (who really ought to know better) crank out kids- but don't give them as much attention as they give the dog.

:rant:

[SoCalDem]

30. Actually, I left my job to come back home when my youngest was a teen

It was pure selfishness on my part.. he was my "baby" and played Club Soccer (lots of out of state games) and was on 3 varsity sports,. I wanted to be able to GO to ALL of them, and without feeling like I had to beg anyone for time off, or to be made to feel guilty for all the extra work other had to do in my absence..

I wanted to go to the practice games, and to be there when he got home & cook snacks for his friends..

I knew that once he was gone, I could never get that time back..

I worked part time and had 3 days a week off , when I did work, but I always seem to have been missing stuff I wanted to do..

I did and do miss the paycheck..(I was making almost $17 an hour back in 1995)..but the child I had the most in common with would be grown up, and there would still be money later..

I actually never did go back , except for the few times my friend twisted my arm to try and figure out his bookkeeping nightmares..I never stood it more than a few months ..He was the CRAZIEST guy.. I would be looking for money, and find it in cardboard boxes...under his desk...left in a register drawer..UNLOCKED..in a drawer at the front desk.. He always "forgot" to run close out readins, so I rarely had anything to balance TO..

I would throw up my hands and say :"Ray, I love ya as a buddy, you you are crazy..I'm outta here..and a few months later he would call me up and suck me back in..:rofl:

[Truth4Justice]

32. Three points: The PILLwas out in 1960. Lots of men dont want kids. Why do we have lots of kids with

six billion people on the Earth who will not have the kind of access to a decent life that we havr? What are they going to eat when oil is too expensive and food in short supply? Shades of Soylent Green, that's what.

[livetohike]

35. In 1986, while interviewing for a management position at a

large corporation I was actually asked these questions:

1) Do you have any children?

2) What does your husband think about you working outside the home? My answer: The same as I feel about him working outside the home.

I got the job, by the way.

Now, I believe, those questions are illegal. Having said that, I think Sarah Palin is only in this VP race for her own self-glory and not because she wants to improve anything for anyone else. The same could be said for a man running for VP. Personally, if I had a Downs Syndrome newborn, I would stay home, if I financially could do it. But that's me.

[emmadoggy]

37. Very well said.

:thumbsup:

[TahitiNut]

40. Why do people, in discussing this, IGNORE the decision Joe Biden made decades ago??

Isn't it VERY CLEAR that Joe Biden wouldn't even be the VP nominee if he came from any state other than Delaware, Maryland, or Virginia??? There's no way he'd be able to commute ... and it's CERTAIN that he'd be practicing law instead of being a Senator.

And his kids weren't "special needs" kids except during their recovery.

[slackmaster]

42. Federal law prohibits asking any job appliant about pregnancy, child-bearing intentions, etc.

Part of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/vii.html

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. A lot of good points, but you should stick with what you know.

When a man applies for a job or runs for office, his parental obligations are not mentioned much because he does not grow a baby in his belly, take time off for maternity leave, come back to work sad and lonely for the baby, or need to take breaks to express milk and call home.. Later on, he is usually not the one who gets the call from the school nurse to come and get a sick kid...

Men all-to-frequently assume a family role which precludes any meaningful parenting.

Yes, our society is subject to stereotypes, but I think it's kind of sad that you must rely on one set to illustrate another.

I spent a great deal of my working life sad and lonely for my kids, and now that I'm a stay-at-home dad, I get the calls from the school nurse.

The Palins are shitty parents, but it's not only Sarah's fault.

If Barak and Michelle were doing an equally poor job parenting, I would question Barak's principles too.

No one criticizes Obama or Biden because they are good parents. They criticize Sarah because she is not.

[Cerridwen]

47. However, women planning a career generally plan their family

life and their families accordingly. Most women realize that "business as usual" in this country is hardly family friendly. Not that their plans don't get sideswiped on occasion, but they usually adjust accordingly - if they're planning a career in the not-family-friendly business world.

mrs. palin either did not plan to become a politician; in which case she fell into it which is hardly a confidence inspiring answer when being interviewed for the job; "Ah, ya know, I didn't really plan to be here. Just thought I'd make the best of it." Yeah, that response inspires employers the world over.

or

mrs. palin planned her career without an understanding of the realities of what a majority of career women know; again, hardly a glowing recommendation as to her cognitive skills

or

mrs. palin thinks she's a mix of "June Cleaver" and "Wonder Woman" and can parent, a 24/7/365 job, while running political campaigns and government, close to 24/7/365 commitment (I guess in this particular scenario, hubby can just go pound sand because I'm not sure where the time comes from to maintain a relationship); which again brings into question her grasp of reality or awareness of her own skills and abilities

or

mrs. palin, a "god fearing christian" woman who knows her place ain't following the rules of her own belief system. I wonder how she feels about "man made" laws?

or

mrs. palin figures god will take care of it all. Yeah, that one ain't workin' for me either.

or

mrs. palin doesn't much give two-rat's-asses about anything other than her career and her hubby, her children, and her political responsibilities all take a back seat to her ambition and/or greed.

Yeah, I know. It doesn't fit on a bumper sticker or in a sound bite.

[SoCalDem]

50. Yes.. they have been winging it, as parents, and frankly...

with the right kids and the right family support, you probably can get away with that..for a while..but sooner or later those kids need you to be the adults and actually parent,instead of "friend" them..

I always told my boys, I did NOT want to be their friend..:)

[Cerridwen]

52. Yep. There are probably about a dozen more "permutations"

of my little list to be applied there. Thanks for reminding me I had meant to put that one in. It can be done; but it must be worked at and planned for. I see no signs of that kind of insight or cognitive ability with regard to that family. Which, by the way, doesn't make them a bad or evil family, quite "normal" as a matter of fact. It does however bring into question as to whether or not we want them anywhere near the White House.

Thank you. :D

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cerridwen]

49. 6 posts attacking liberals.

When that person gave you directions on the internets and they said "hang a right," they meant, your other right.

[SoCalDem]

51. Bzzzzzt.. wrong-o.. Try the moose pizza.. It's on special

:rofl: