How many dead civilians are a dead bad guy worth...

[givemebackmycountry]

That would be 30.
Women, children, men, aunts, uncles.

This 60 minutes report on Afghanistan is devastating.

Afghanis say, the Russians treated us better and killed less innocent people.

Who killed all these people?
We Did.
We drop bombs from 35,000 feet, if your in the way, tough shit.

I heard someone say this a year ago, and not on here.

"Someone throws a hand grenade and we respond with a couple of 2,500 bombs".

It's like shooting a fly with a .50 caliber.

What a great report.

[DutchLiberal]

1. That's why I don't get why Obama keeps repeating Afghanistan is "the right war"...

Really, Barack, a 'right' war? I was so glad to hear Bill Maher point this out yesterday on his show. I don't think I have ever heard anybody else question that war and the way it's being waged. Maher called on Obama to at least have a debate about this issue.

The Dutch are in Afghanistan, too. Independent journalists (those who aren't embedded with the Dutch army) report the support for the Taliban under civilians is rapidly gaining because of the many deaths among their family and friends, caused by NATO.

[Zhade]

2. Me neither. Does he really believe that horseshit?

He's smarter than that!

[DutchLiberal]

5. I believe he does. Why else would he want to pull out the troops from Iraq just to...

deploy them to Afghanistan?

As Maher pointed out once more: there is no military solution to the problem of terrorism.

However, with Afghanistan we face a huge dilemma: I have also heard the stories (from the independent journalists) about what happens in areas where the Taliban has gained control again. Life is hell for the people who live there! How can we let them down again? But on the other side: we control almost nothing in Afghanistan. Besides Kabul, we don't have much... So how can this ever be won?

This is why a *debate* is needed.

[G_j]

9. yes, that is very scary, makes voting for him painful

I'm so sick of the supposed need to repeat macho, bogus, foreign policy BS.

[JonQ]

3. Really, the russians killed fewer people?

Because the low estimate for the soviet invasion was 1 million dead, 5 million fled to neighboring countries, 2 million displaced, and over 4 million disabled or maimed. Yeah, somehow I doubt we've topped that impressive record.

[PDJane]

4. the point is that you're bombing the hell out of civilians.

Yeah, the Russians killed millions. You're just busily bombing the hell out of the farmers and anyone else who couldn't afford to leave...and who are still there.

That's really impressive, too.

[JonQ]

6. I'm doing it?

man, I must be having crazy blackouts, I can't remember bombing millions of afghans.

And I still maintain that the soviets killed more than *I* did. Not a matter of opinion, just facts.

[Xenotime]

7. We have a better cover us techniques than they did.

I'm sure they have people playing both side.

[JonQ]

10. No, you're wrong.

Sorry but to say that it's easier to cover up atrocities in the US than it was in the soviet union is just absurd. Besides which, even if that were true, we have a rather broad coalition in Afghanistan. Even if we were somehow magically supressing the media (they do tend to love atrocity stories) we wouldn't be able to stifle the other NATO countries.

Nope, that's a ridiculous statement.

[ConsAreLiars]

11. Your "we" is not my "we."

You endorse the mass murder of Afghans by your "we" but oppose it when done by the Soviet version of "we." You are just blindly rooting for one team of murderers, dissing the other, and care not one single bit about the people of Afghanistan. Yeah, the other team, over more years, racked up more murders than yours. Don't worry, your team is catching up. Then you can boast of that.

I don't think the people of Afghanistan are any happier about being murdered now than then, or any happier about being murdered by a new group of invaders because the total has not yet reached the totals done by the previous invader.

It's as base and callow as claiming Manson was a good guy because Bundy killed more than he did. Mass murderers are mass murderers, and arguing about greater or lesser body counts is pure bullshit.

[JonQ]

12. Thanks for joining in

the points I was responding to were these: 1) the US has killed more afghans than the US has, this is false, 2) that the Soviet Union had a freer media than we currently do, and so their atrocities were exposed while our, far worse supposedly, have been hidden from view, again this is false.

If you can dispute either of these claims then you'll have a point. Otherwise, you may want to form an exit strategy to get out of this debate.

[malaise]

8. I saw that

Excellent report- life does not matter to Bushco.

[MisterP]

13. what is the difference between this and terrorism? seriously! n/t