What's really behind "baby-gate"?

[ColbertWatcher]

What's the real issue behind Alaska governor and now presumptive GOP VP nominee, Sarah Palin's "alleged" pregnancy?

Is it how old she was when she "decided" to have another child?

What about her reckless disregard for the health of the baby (and her own for that matter) when she jumped on the plane to give birth in a preferred location?

What about the rumor that she's covering up the pregnancy of her teenaged daughter?

Well, as far as I'm concerned that last one is getting close, but it's not quite there yet...

What I see the issue behind "baby-gate" is Mrs. Palin's fringe beliefs and how they fail in the face of this pregnancy.

If the child is indeed the offspring of her daughter, and that daughter is not married, that means she had pre-marital sex.

Is that not against everything Mrs. Palin believes? Doesn't Mrs. Palin believe that abstinence-only education works?

If it is revealed that the child is actually Mrs. Palin's grandchild, what does that say about abstinence-only "education"?

What exactly is Mrs. Palin's stance on sex-ed for teens?

[unkachuck]

1. very interesting....n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

2. Thank you. I think McCain needs to respond to these questions ...

...regarding his VP's fringe beliefs.

[arctic]

5. Why is this interesting

?

[Vickers]

11. Hey, YOU clicked on the link...

:eyes:

Welcome to DU yadda yadda yadda...

[bahrbearian]

50. Talk to pizza much?

[RagAss]

6. LOL. !!!!....Klink

[orleans]

3. here is my take--and if the baby is really her daughter's

i do not think the issue is premarital sex
i do not think the issue is really anything about her daughter at all (or at least it shouldn't be)

AND

if, in fact, if it is her daughter's child--sarah taking in this child and raising it could be viewed as a very generous/wonderful thing--the fact that the baby had problems and was not put up for adoption.

this is what i think the scandal really is:
if sarah is not the birth mother--the bottom issue/scandal is SHE LIED--she's a fucking liar, she lied to her staff, reporters, the people of alaska, and the people of this country--it would mean she's a fucking liar and so ashamed of her daughter that she went to such a length to cover it up and deceive everyone. which obviously means one very, basic, important thing: (not only does this put her in a position for blackmail but it shows that she can't be trusted)

[ColbertWatcher]

4. And if she lied, it may also mean INSURANCE FRAUD!

Someone else on DU brought that up the first day!

[orleans]

7. maybe/maybe not. not if she adopted the child, or is the legal

guardian.

[ColbertWatcher]

10. If she adopted/became legal guardian, then there would be a record, no?

[orleans]

26. yes. but we aren't allowed to see birth certificates for others--adoption records

can be sealed as well.

[Prophet 451]

43. Not necessarily

We're tried to create a system where this kind of thing can't happen but money and power can open up a lot of gaps and people can always be paid off. Ric Flair (legendary wrestler) tells the story in his autobiography of how he was essentially stolen from his birth mother and adopted out by a crooked adoption agency and a corrupt judge they had in on the scam. This went on for years and was a huge scandal when it came out. Obviously, it's not the same situation but it's an illustration that things can get very hazy in this area.

For the record, I'm honestly not sure if I believe the theory but there's enough odd little details to make me wonder.

[orleans]

46. right--but you or i can't just go into the county clerks office and ask

to see the birth certificate

[Prophet 451]

47. Not as far as I know n/t

[orleans]

51. of course you can't just go get a copy of someones birth certificate

hell, i don't think you can get a copy of someone's death certificate unless it is over 75 years ago or you are a member of immediate family

[Prophet 451]

53. Well, I'm a Brit...

...and my training is in British law (here, you CAN request a copy of anyone's birth certificate) so I didn't like to make a definate statement on American law.

[orleans]

57. really? anyone can request a copy? wow. i can't imagine that.

i don't know if that's a good thing or not.

[mrfrapp]

68. Birth Certificates

It's a little complicated but in the UK any record (birth, marriage or death) is obtainable by anyone. All you need to provide is the persons name and the reference for the record. In the case of birth records created in the last fifty years an applicant also needs to provide the parents names, the place of birth and exact date of birth, but even this is waived for certain applicants.

It is also possible for records to be sealed or blocked if that record has been superseded by another record (adoption, father not originally named, gender change, etc).

[orleans]

58. yes, but i don't think the record is "public"

it's only for the adoptive family or the guardians. at least in illinois that, i'm almost positive, is the way it's done. maybe alaska is different.

[robinlynne]

70. You cannot have a child and also adopt it. Adopting would have been a fine thing to

do, but is not what she did.

[likesmountains 52]

9. ok, this would only be insurance fraud if they somehow got the hospital to bill the delivery to Sara

Palin (as if she were the patient)but that it was actually someone else who had the hospital stay and the delivery. The amount of deception and involvement of the hospital staff would be unbelievably complicated. Give up on the insurance fraud angle please..

[ColbertWatcher]

12. Did the mother give birth in a hospital? n/t

[likesmountains 52]

16. I don't know...but the number of people who would have to agree to a sham like what you're

suggesting would just about guarantee that it couldn't happen..

[ColbertWatcher]

20. You're assuming there aren't enough people willing to lie for power.

Interesting.

I wonder if anyone in the state troopers would disagree with her seeing what she did to the guy in charge of them.

Or, perhaps a fellow Christer would really work that hard to disagree with her.

Maybe I'm too much of a cynic, or maybe you're giving the benefit of the doubt to someone whose past behavior doesn't warrant it.

I think McCain needs to answer to these questions regarding his running mate.

[seabeyond]

21. i dont think it is hidden. from what we have heard, this has been being talked

about in that area. this stuff happens, family do it. people snicker behind back. now that she is front stage, if it happened, i would imagine it would come out quickly.

that is what bothers me. if this is a lie she created, people would have let it go, but taking the vp she had to know it would come out. what does that say about a parent willingly allow daughter to nationally be embarrassed. unless she is just so damn arrogant she thought the nation wouldnt dig. our politicans are arrogant

if she was preg and got on the plane with water that broke, was too far out there. just bad.

she is running on a "real mom" i think she brought it into play

[ColbertWatcher]

23. "she is running on a "real mom" i think she brought it into play"

Thank you!

This is the best observation I've seen yet.

Bravo!

You win an internets!

[seabeyond]

34. You win an internets!.... golly gee, i dont think all the tubes

will fit in my house.

[ColbertWatcher]

40. I hear Ted Stevens knows these guys who can make your house bigger. n/t

[seabeyond]

42. bah hahahahah. but it looked crooked to me. lol lol lol. n/t

[SoCalDem]

48. but the porch is "trent-worthy"

:)

[ColbertWatcher]

60. Well done! n/t

[Quantess]

36. Not necessarily. She is a tough woman who doesn't need to give birth in a hospital.

Same applies if her daughter was giving birth, the Alaska-toughness clearly runs in the family. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Quantess]

37. I'm not just being cynical about home births.

Two births, in my close family have been home births.

[orleans]

25. yes, i know. i was posting there too. n/t

[arctic]

8. I just asked

Track Palin and a close family friend of the Palins, Trig is Sara's son not Bristol's

[ColbertWatcher]

13. I just asked someone at the airport who saw he landing that day ...

... she wasn't pregnant.

[AlCzervik]

17. don't make a long term investment in this one.

not gonna last.

[ColbertWatcher]

19. I never speak honestly to liars. I give them what they give me. n/t

[arctic]

18. My boss

and his son are close friends with the Palin's and Track is in town, off base, for the long weekend.

And of course if you asked someone in OH if Sara was pregnant she wouldnt be, Trig was born in April.

[ColbertWatcher]

22. Well, I saw with my own eyes when she landed at the airport.

She was not pregnant.

[arctic]

28. Duh,

Trig was born in April.

[ColbertWatcher]

62. And that's when I saw her at the airport. n/t

[Vickers]

27. I talked with Track just a few minutes ago...

*spits toe-backy juice*

He says you're a dick.





Of course that's just hearsay...

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Phredicles]

41. Words to live by!

I'm sure I'd understand where on Earth that came from if I'd seen the deleted post. As it is it just gave me a tremendous laugh. Thanks!

[Egnever]

61. I have no idea what that was in response to

But as a random comment it is off the charts funny!

[ColbertWatcher]

15. Oh, and welcome to DU. (EDITED TO ADD) with your 6 posts. n/t

[orleans]

24. oh, thanks for signing up here today to report this conversation you

had with her kid. i feel so much better now.

[AlCzervik]

30. being so close and all you would think he'd spell her name properly. Sarah, not Sara.

[arctic]

33. I didnt vote for her

Why would I care if I spelled correctly?

[orleans]

44. I KNOW! LOL! n/t

[arctic]

32. So you would prefer...

Rumor and conjecture?

[Vickers]

35. As opposed to your unimpeachable "conversation" with Track?

FUCK YEAH!

:headbang:

[orleans]

45. no...i would prefer to take your word for it IF YOU COULD ONLY SPELL

THE WOMAN'S NAME PROPERLY! (guess you're not all that close to the family after all)

on edit: btw--this is DEMOCRATICunderground--not DEFEND PALIN UNDERGROUND. seems that is all you have an interest in doing.

why is that, i wonder...

[SoCalDem]

49. Todd... I hear Sarah calling you... she can't find the remote

:)

[zeemike]

14. Spot on Orleans n/t

[downticket gumbo]

63. a LIAR who preaches creationism, abstinence and absolute anti-abortionism

[Quantess]

66. how did you do that?

"downticket gumbo" is not a recognized DU name, as far as I can tell. A search for your posts comes up empty. How do you get around it?

[TahitiNut]

38. Have I missed something? Anyone speculate on who the father might be if true?

After all, if it's the underage daughter's baby ... what might one of the more serious motives be to hide it??
Hoosier daddy, trig? (What if ... they're only lying about who the mother is?)
Hmmmm...?

:eyes:

[ColbertWatcher]

39. I've been spreading 2 possibilities ...

... (1) the girl's math teacher (Trig is short for trigonometry)
and (2) the dad, Todd (Trig is short for triangle)

Of course, those are rumors.

[orleans]

54. no way--i say it's just some cute little 16-18 year old boy who likes

the girl--probably a lot like our new little poster on this thread
;)

[EFerrari]

55. No one has suggested Trigger?

I guess it's early in the weekend yet.

[seabeyond]

56. oh you made me laugh. n/t

[orleans]

64. thought this was interesting...

Since these rumors have begun circulating, the Alaska Department of State has taken down ALL PHOTOS of the governor and her family from the state’s website.

Now y’all know that we’re not knocking the lady for trying to protect her daughter. But if you have that kind of scandal in your recent past, you really have no business running for vice president. If that’s what she wanted to do, she could have done like Janet and Rebe and just stayed out of the limelight for a minute…..

Anyway, even though the mainstream press is too chicken to report on this, MediaTakeOut.com has learned that The National Enquirer is all over this one. Expect the scandal to get bigger (if it is true) in coming weeks…
http://www.mediatakeout.com/2008/26264-stunning_rumor_mccains_vp_choice_may_have_hid_daughters_pregnancy__claimed_the_baby_as_her_own_.html

[Quantess]

52. That is an inappropriate comment, and you know it.

There has been absolutely no basis for speculation about fatherhood, in this case.

I realize you were sarcastic, but, your comment does not detract from the seriousness of the allegations. (Yes. I did hear that on Judge Judy)

Have you even entertained the fact that Gov. Palin might be the grandmother of the baby, and not the biological mother?

I don't think there is anything wrong with that, at all, if it is true.

[EFerrari]

59. Oh god. I hope not. There are three daughters.

:(

[TahitiNut]

65. It'd be a horrible situation, for sure.

It wouldn't be the first time something so nice and shiny on the outside was maggot-ridden on the inside, though. We're a culture that prizes appearances and often ignores substance.

[EFerrari]

67. And the subculture Palin cultivates, even more so. n/t

[ildemo]

69. OMG!

"If the child is indeed the offspring of her daughter, and that daughter is not married, that means she had pre-marital sex."

Omigod! A Republican teenager having sex!