This Shocked Me. I Had No Idea This Was Legal...."Corporal Punsihment" In Schools? WTF???

[orleans]

Corporal punishment seen rife in U.S. schools
DALLAS (Reuters) - More than 200,000 children were hit as punishment in U.S. schools last year and in the South more blacks than whites are struck, two human rights groups said in a report released on Wednesday.

Texas accounted for a quarter of the instances of corporal punishment in the 2006-2007 school year, according to the study compiled by Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union.

The report, titled "A Violent Education: Corporal Punishment of Children in U.S. Public Schools," plays into a debate in America about the effectiveness of corporal punishment and its role in the classroom and home.

Twenty-one U.S. states still permit the use of corporal punishment in schools. In Texas and Mississippi children as young as 3 are struck for transgressions as minor as gum chewing, the report says.

The punishment often involves hitting a child on the buttocks with a long wooden board, or paddle.

In 13 states in the U.S. South where corporal punishment is the most prevalent, African-American girls are twice as likely to be hit as their white counterparts, according to the 125-page report.

"African-American students are punished at 1.4 times the rate that would be expected given their numbers in the student population," the groups said in a statement.

Citing U.S. Department of Education data, the report said 223,190 students nationwide received corporal punishment at least once in the 2006-2007 school year. This included 49,197 students in Texas, the largest number of any state.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1931921320080820
--more at link--

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jvb2qMCd3ccBpqlVrVh18NDLtpPwD92M3BMO0

saw a piece about this on headline news today--i had no idea this was legal. i really am shocked to see this. wtf is wrong with people???

[Sanctified]

1. I went to an elementary school in northern arizona that had corporal punishment.

My parents told me if I ever got spanked at school I would get it twice as bad when I got home, I only got spanked one time in the 4 years I went there. The kids were really well behaved though, when I went to school in Phoenix it was totally different.

[orleans]

6. sorry to hear that. how old were you? n/t

[Sanctified]

10. Don't be sorry I deserved it, I squirted katchup all over some kids face.

I was probably around 9, it was just one swat with a paddle it stung and I cried but I cried mostly from the shame.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

14. No you didn't. What you DID deserve was a suspension and/or detention.

Don't give in to Stockholm syndrome.

[orleans]

21. well said. n/t

[Sanctified]

31. LOL, Stockholm syndrome. I would prefer a swat and back to class over..

missing school with a suspension or miss an extra curricular activity with a detention. There was a kid who brought a knife to school one time he got 5 swats and lost his knife, no police, no jail, no suspension just some swats and back to class.

[lonestarnot]

57. I got swats as a kid for chewing gum in class and for passing a note to a friend.

What a bunch of bullshit.

[Sanctified]

64. Well your school was stricter than mine, you had to do something

that would have probably got your a suspension at my school to get a swat. Like I said a kid brought a knife to school and got 5 swats, think of what would happen if a kid brought a knife to school today.

[donco6]

2. It depends on the state.

Some states allow it; others don't.

[LeftyMom]

3. If you have to hit a kid to get them to behave, you fail as a teacher/parent/adult/human being.

:grr:

[pipoman]

50. I don't completely agree.

While corporal punishment for the sake of pain infliction is sadistic IMHO. I found as a parent that few things get the undivided attention of an unruly toddler that a swift swat on the posterior does. Not a beating or even a paddling mind you, just an attention getter. I think I swatted my 2 a total of 2-3 times each at the toddler stage. After that the mere threat of a swat would grab their attention for quite a while after. I found that the sound was more important than the pain.

[LeftyMom]

69. Yet most professionals and half of the civilized world do without.

Hell, spanking is outright illegal in Scandinavia (and Italy and any number of other perfectly civilized places) and I've yet to hear of a rash of rampaging Swedish toddlers.

Clearly if other methods worked on your kids the 99.whatever% of the time that you got their attention without hitting them, then the few times you did could have been addressed differently as well had better management options been available to you. Which is the whole point of what I was saying- spanking is what parents do when they run out of reasonable alternatives, and indicates either a failure of patience or a failure to teach them better choices.

[Somawas]

4. What bothers you about this?

It has always fascinated me that the cases regarding public schools and the cases involving prisons are pretty much the same. The administrators of either such institution may use such measures as are necessary to "maintain good order and discipline."

[orleans]

11. well, for starters, i didn't believe in spanking my child and i think i would

have lost my mind if someone had hauled off and spanked her.

i think it's a bit bizarre--this spanking of other people's children. the news story i saw today showed high school students.

makes me wonder who the perverts are that spank young girls and how much they are getting off on that. then, on the other hand, the same goes for the boys. because i can't imagine spanking kids i can only assume that those who do it are getting some sort of sadistic/sexual pleasure out of it.

has no one in these schools heard of "time outs"

send a kid into the hall for five minutes. chances are they'll be fine when they return. if not, it's back in the hall for double time. if there is still a problem they can go to the office and sit and read a fucking book for two hours. you don't have to HIT them to change the behavior--you remove them from the activity/classroom.

[Naturyl]

30. I *might* consider spanking my own child in certain unusual circumstances...

But if anyone else were physically hitting any hypothetical child of mine, they had better damn sure hope I remembered my meds that morning. I do not take kindly to that kind of shit.

[Tarc]

5. Any teacher that hit my child would find a tire iron upside his head

Sad that this is still permitted anywhere in the US, but it is. Our glorious president refused to sign onto the UN's Rights of the Child Convention in 2004.

[bbinacan]

20. You said

"Any teacher that hit my child would find a tire iron upside his head"

I'm puzzled by this comment.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. Puzzled? I find it completely plain, simple... and wise. -nt

[Tarc]

41. What's puzzling about it?

I don't use violence to correct my children's sometiems not-good behavior, which means I sure as hell would not condone someone else's use of violent punishment against them if they should misbehave in school.

I would use violence if necessary to protect my children from others.

Clear?

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

7. Went to school in 1940s - 1950s kids were well behaved.

train them early.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. Yeah, and in 1930s Italy the trains were always on time. Wasn't that SUPER? -nt

[Catch22Dem]

8. We used to have the choice "licks" or detention

I always chose "licks" (big ol' paddle) because it was super easy, only hurt for half a second, then it was over. I'm pretty sure I wasn't damaged by it. Of course, if you try to tell me otherwise, I'll punch you in the fucking mouth... :evilgrin:

[carlyhippy]

9. I was in elementary school and jr hi in NM/TX in the70's

corporal punishment was alive and well at that time.....teachers were allowed to paddle the dickens out of the students, and they had big wooden paddles..the worst was getting a paddling from a gym teacher. I can't believe they are still allowed to do it..the kids didn't want to get paddled, so most of the time everyone was on their best behavior.

my 2nd grade teacher was an old windbag who used to yank her students out of their seats and shake them if they acted up. I despised that old crow...but on the other hand, I actually learned alot that year, I was too afraid not to learn.

[orleans]

16. jr. high and i spent a lot of time down in the office. every so often

my mother was called in. (she was on a first name basis with the principle.) there was never any hitting or violence. if there had been i'm sure i would have lashed out, fought back and been totally screwed up by it (not to mention i probably would have been thrown into a juvie home)

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

12. I wonder...

How this bounces off the concealed carry laws down there.

Where I come from, NJ, someone attacks you with a piece of lumber, you defend yourself. Color of authority has little to do with it.

Fucking thugs.

[MiniMe]

13. Wow, I wondered where that CNN quick poll came from

This explains it.

[orleans]

18. they're polling this?

on edit:
i see it. and voted. thanks
http://www.cnn.com/

[elshiva]

17. Bad children should be eaten.

[orleans]

19. lol n/t

[SpookyCat]

33. smile...

...miss Buffy.... <sniff>

[elshiva]

36. Thanks, hon.

But the picture of Anthony Head with the bat things is from Doctor Who.

[SpookyCat]

37. Hon? Um..ok...

Yes, I know. Dr. Who is still on though, albeit with a second rate Dr now, and Buffy is not, ergo, I don't miss Dr Who.

:hi:

[elshiva]

38. Oh, okay. I wasn't trying to be snippy.

:hi:

On edit: hon was meant as a term of affectionate address.

[SpookyCat]

39. Ah, good! I was confused...LOL!

I took it totally wrong, my fault, my hot button!




:pals:

[elshiva]

42. Good.

:) :pals:

[fishwax]

22. I went to school about as it was being phased out in my district in the 80s/90s

It was still legal, but I didn't know of anyone in my class that it happened to. My brother was four grades ahead of me, though, and it was still fairly common for his class. I was generally a pretty well-behaved student (well, by reputation, anyway), so it wasn't likely to ever have been an issue, but if they'd tried that on me it would have created more problems for them than it would have solved.

[bbinacan]

24. I got spanked two times

by a teacher, and I deserved both of them. And guess what, I didn't fuck up again.

[orleans]

26. check out this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3829981&mesg_id=3830075

[sandnsea]

25. This thread is why there are McCain voters

Spanking kids, dismissal of the agony of poverty, anger at immigrants, support of nuclear energy, support of more drilling, support of guns, etc etc. You add up all these beliefs, which I've seen repeatedly at DU, and pretty soon you've got a Republican.

[Tarc]

43. Do you ever stop being fucking ridiculous?

I remember your inane shit from the primary season, and unfortunatelyit seems it hasn't let up. I happen to be a strong supporter of gun rights, believe that nuclear energy can be useful if the waste can be contained properly, and am not too crazy about some of the immigration policies that the party leaders have floated around.

I am not a Republican, nor on the verge of being one.

[donco6]

27. States where coporal punishment is legal:

Where the states stand on corporal punishment: Alabama--Legal
Alaska--Illegal
Arizona--Legal
Arkansas--Legal
California--Illegal
Colorado--Legal
Connecticut--Illegal
Delaware--Illegal
District of Columbia--N/A
Florida--Legal
Georgia--Legal
Hawaii--Illegal
Idaho--Legal
Illinois--Illegal
Indiana--Legal
Iowa--Illegal
Kansas--Legal
Kentucky--Legal
Louisiana--Legal
Maine--Illegal
Maryland--Illegal
Massachusetts--Illegal
Michigan--Illegal
Minnesota--Illegal
Mississippi--Legal
Missouri--Legal Montana--Illegal
Nebraska--Illegal
Nevada--Illegal
New Hampshire--Illegal
New Jersey--Illegal
New Mexico--Legal
New York--Illegal
North Carolina--Legal
North Dakota--Illegal
Ohio--Legal
Oklahoma--Legal
Oregon--Illegal
Pennsylvania--Legal
Rhode Island--Restricted*
South Carolina--Legal
South Dakota--Illegal
Tennessee--Legal
Texas--Legal
Utah--Illegal
Vermont--Illegal
Virginia--Illegal
Washington--Illegal
West Virginia--Illegal
Wisconsin--Illegal
Wyoming--Legal
* banned by every school board in the state

In Colorado, it's legal, but I've never heard of it being practiced anywhere near my district.

[sandnsea]

66. Wow, is there a trend there or what

Wild. Those are the states with the highest violent crime rates too, for the most part. Don't provide any economic security, raise them in a violent atmosphere, then execute them when the anger blows back on society. :crazy:

[Number23]

67. Smells right to me!

Born and raised in Georgia.

I remember on the first day of class in the 5th grade, my teacher lined everyone up and swatted us across the butt with a big, heavy ruler called "The Board of Education." (Isn't that just HILARIOUS???!!) And this was on the FIRST DAY. She said she was "letting us know right then she didn't want and wouldn't take any mess."

Never acted up in her class once. What she did was ridiculous, but effective. Very effective.

[Naturyl]

28. What? This still goes on?

I find this difficult to believe. I thought this sort of thing ended nationwide decades ago. This is a real head-scratcher for me...

Wow... wtf. Time to do some checking.

[orleans]

29. see--that's what i thought! n/t

[Beregond2]

32. When I was in school, every classroom had a "hack paddle."

It was a badge of honor for a boy to get a hack. You were considered a wuss if you didn't. I don't remember a girl ever getting one. It was completely inneffective as a way of controlling the kids, and I don't remember anyone seeming traumatized by it. It died out mainly because it didn't work.

I remember my band teacher Mr. Lindelein had a paddle with holes drilled in it to decrease wind resistance. They spelled out "KILL." It was made for him by the boys in woodshop.

A different world.

[SpookyCat]

35. KILL? WTF?

Whatever one may think about this issue, that teacher had some serious issues.

I didn't know this still went on either.

[Joe Fields]

45. delete...wrong place

[michreject]

52. The teacher would make me bend over

with my hands on a girls desk, my face inches from hers. While looking each other in the eyes...........whack.

[lib2DaBone]

34. Bullshit....

.... just try touching a kid.. kiss your job goodbye...... this is toal dis-info...

[2KS2KHonda]

40. A swat on the butt of a disruptive juvenile shit is no problem at all.

Get over all the poor abused children shit.

[Dumak]

44. I grew up in Minnesota

My 5th grade teacher would throw objects at the heads of people who spoke out of turn. Another teacher had constructed a soundproof box to confine a retarded boy. I had always wondered what that colorful box was for. He got in big trouble when they found out about it. I had a mean, dim-witted gym teacher in 8th grade who wielded a huge paddle with holes in it for faster velocity. And that's one big problem with corporal punishment - there are crazy teachers out there who will take it to extremes, and they need to be held accountable.

[Joe Fields]

46. It should be allowed in all 50 states.

[orleans]

47. joe, i'm sorry if you were abused as a child. n/t

[Manifestor_of_Light]

48. Just because it's done to kids doesn't make it right.

I could run faster than my folks when they tried to swat me for not staying in the house as a prisoner(I was not supposed to play with the neighbor kids!), and I was still terrified.

[Joe Fields]

54. lol...you shouldn't speak of things you know nothing about.

Once again we have the "disciplining a child is abuse crowd" at work. Some people will never ever be able to make a distinction. Pity.

For the record, I was not an abused child. I wouldn't have traded my set of wonderful parents for any pair in the world.

Were you abused? I'm asking, and not assuming, like you just did.

[Rage for Order]

60. I think the parents have to sign a consent form

At the beginning of each school year, parents can authorize the school district to use corporal punishment on their child(ren). If the parent doesn't sign, the teacher doesn't paddle.

[Lance_Boyle]

53. I agree. It's not like the line between "abuse" and "coddle" is a fine one.

"Physical discipline" != "abuse." That claim is absurd.

[LeftishBrit]

49. The UK banned corporal punishment in schools in 1986

[mwooldri]

56. The UK banned corporal punishment period ...

You can't thrash your kids or beat them with anything in the UK anymore. A mild tap on the bottom is as far as you're allowed to go today.

Mark.

[Sanctified]

58. Are you allowed to use a belt? n/t

[mwooldri]

61. NO!

Under the 2004 Children's Act, that applies to England and Wales, it is against the law to hit a youngster hard enough to leave a mark will possibly result in a 5 year jail term. Scotland has something similar. Dunno about Northern Ireland though.

Mark.

[Sanctified]

63. Interesting can't spank your kids with a belt but you can send them off to Iraq to kill. n/t

[HughBeaumont]

51. I got paddled in first grade.

Read about this and other 70s - 80s headcase teachers I had to deal with here:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/22

[JesterCS]

55. I agree with this

I was swatted as a kid for doing things i should have.. a nice wooden paddle with a crack that pinched and some holes to let air pass through.

Im a better person because of it. These days kids are way too damn unruly.. If i would haid half the things kids these day do. i would have been beat within an inch of my life.

[mwooldri]

59. In NC, it's dependent on the county/school system not the State.

In general, the more "liberal" and the more "big" school systems outlaw it. Guilford County Schools have not had it since the 80's or early 90's. Smaller, more rural and more "conservative" counties still allow corporal punishment.

Mark.

[Throd]

62. I remember a paddle resembling a cricket bat prominently displayed in the principal's office.

I think it's mere menacing presence eliminated a lot of misdeeds before they happened.

Oh, and you didn't cross Ms. Wilson. She would slap you upside the head with an chalkboard eraser.

That was 1972 and we all ended up just fine.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

65. you don't know if EVERYBODY ended up fine, do you?? n/t

[eshfemme]

68. Wow, maybe it's because I went to school in NYC but corporal punishment was impossible to hear of.

Maybe in Catholic schools it was still done but you'd just be opening yourself up to lawsuits if corporal punishment was an official school policy. Frankly, the school shouldn't be doing that to the kids anyway because it should be the parents who decide to do that-- the idea of allowing your school to hit your kids smacks too much of a nanny state mentality where the schools are doing the bulk of the actual parenting.

[wicket]

70. 1980s - elementary school in Vermont - saw kids being hit with my own eyes

n/t