US Accused of War Crimes Over Torture Methods

[babylonsister]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/35598

US Accused of War Crimes Over Torture Methods
Submitted by Chip on Wed, 2008-08-20 11:06.


The use of torture by the US Government in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks in New York on September 11, 2001 has come under increasing criticism.

snip//

"He was kept in cold rooms such that he was shivering uncontrollably, his heart rate would drop; he was provided fluids intravenously without the opportunity to go to the bathroom. He was sexually humiliated by female US guards and other treatments of this sort."

In December 2002 then US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld signed a now infamous memo which justified these new methods.

The memo detailed a variety of enhanced interrogation techniques such as leaving people standing for up to four hours.

Mr Rumsfeld wrote at the bottom "I stand for 8-10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to four hours?".

The US Justice Department declared treatment only amounted to torture if it intentionally resulted in pain equivalent to serious injury, organ failure or death.

Some are now questioning whether the officials who authorised these techniques may be open to being charged with war crimes.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. Traditional American Values at their most obvious.

In this instance, we have a lot of politicians and military types, who never got over their fascination with blowing up frogs and tearing the wings off of flies.

What I find most disgusting about this is the idea that it's done to protect us from the "barbaric" terrorists.

"We have met the enemy and they is us." - Pogo

[TahitiNut]

2. We're a nation of cowards and criminals as long as these people go unpunished.

I'm ashamed to be a part of this.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. Ahhh..but..the people might get upset if they thought the government is responsible.

And, heavens!, they might not vote for anyone who actually someone accountable.

Or, they might even feel guilty about voting the bastards into office.

[TahitiNut]

5. Uh-huh ... it's much better to be "Good Germans" and pretend.

:puke:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Yet the ordinary Germans had a reason to look the other way.

We berate the hell out of them for their willful ignorance, or outright complicity, but we noble citizens make excuses for the some of the cowards who voted for this war and the atrocities because they're "not as bad" as the others who did the same.

At least the Germans had the excuse of not being willing to be hanged from a meat hook for speaking out. We face only the apologist's scorn for being the troublemaking "fringe" who don't "understand".

[TahitiNut]

8. Very well-stated.

We have an abundance of threads (posturing) pointing the finger at faux-Christians ("by their acts shall ye know them") but we never talk about how OUR ACTS are every bit as AWOL in calling ourselves "democrats" or "liberals." We 'speak' with the certitude of condemnation but act with the cowardice of the unprincipled.

I do not exclude myself from this. As long as there is 'more' I could do - including the surrender of my life for my principles - I am demonstrating cowardice in not doing so. When I see folks say what they'd do "if there were a draft" (or other float in the parade of horribles) I have to wonder why we're not doing it already. Cowardice ... or criminality.

[formercia]

10. Those who chose to go along and engage in torture.

Some refused to engage in torture and some resigned, but there were those who went along for various reasons like having to pay bills, the kid needs braces, the wife just bought a new car and the best of all: It's not a good career move to refuse.

Tell that to the 4000 plus US dead, tens of thousands injured and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead and wounded.

There comes a time to decide to do what's right or be a coward and go along.

I know from personal experience. I chose to resign when confronted with the choice of engaging in illegal acts or going along for the sake of a good career.

I have no pity for those who chose otherwise.

[TahitiNut]

12. Somehow it's not enough to know what I have done ... when I know I could do more.

It's "not my style" to detail the career and personal 'sacrifices' I've made to serve my values and principles. After all, I think, they're MY values and principles (freely and knowingly adopted) so, in a sense, I've merely been self-serving. I guess one could say that "integrity" is the ultimate in being self-serving. (This, of course, is akin to the old sophistry about there being no such thing as altruism - and even a kiss is self-serving.)

Maybe it's just the after-effects of "survivor's guilt" from Viet Nam, but I'm nagged by the notion that we (on DU, as well as elsewhere) are free (and VERY certain) with our condemnation of the criminality of this administration. Yet "impeachment is off (OUR) the table" and I have yet to see millions storming the White House to assert our sovereignty over our own self-governance.

What makes us an "better" than any 3rd world country that fails to EARN their own democracy or fails to bring their tin-pot dictators to justice? Indeed ... I don't see us even rising to the level of people in other nations that sacrifice far more to obtain their right to self-governance.

We sneer at the U.S. involvement in the (civil?) war between North and South Viet Nam. Yet few would claim that Viet Nam is 'free' OR 'democratic.' (The treaty under which we withdrew promised 'free elections' ... a promise never met.)

It seems to me that we have a DUTY to match our rhetoric with our behavior. It seems to me that "by their acts shall ye know them" is self-condemning.

[formercia]

15. Ok, then, I will shut up from now on.

The last impression I want to give is that I have some self-serving agenda.


You white folks be careful.

[TahitiNut]

17. That's not at all what I meant. Not at all. No criticism was intended whatsoever.

Like I say, I have to serve *MY* values and principles ... and, especially as a LIBERAL, I don't impose them on others.

[bdamomma]

16. we are far cry from Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave

we are being played as fools and they are just laughing at us.

[TahitiNut]

18. "Bread and circuses" has been a tyrant's successful strategy for a long, long time.

It's too bad it's not better understood by all ... and opposed.

[liberal N proud]

3. So will someone make those responsible accountable?

[TahitiNut]

13. If not "We The People" then WHO? (The Lone Ranger?)

:grr:

[John7714]

24. McClellan begs Obama: Don’t investigate us

Since when is it the descretion of one man in this country to seek crimes at any level. Oh Yea...... Justice - what a weird concept in the USA when corruption in government becomes so wide spread.

If I wiretap a phone, I am accused of a felony because it is a crime. If ATT&T does it, their company logo appears on delegate's sponsor provided bags at the Democratic Convention.



McClellan begs Obama: Don’t investigate us

Scotty asks Obama not to investigate his peeps in the White House if he wins in November because it will taint Obama.

Scott McClellan advises Obama, in an interview with my colleague Daniel Libit, not to investigate the Bush Administration — because it would, McClellan says, damage Obama’s image

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/20/mcclellan-begs-obama-dont-investigate-us/#comments

[bdamomma]

27. this totally falls on us, we should hold them accountable.

[Supersedeas]

7. John Yoo, paging Dr. Yoo, do we have a Berkley Law Professor ready to defend the organ failure

analogy -- UC Law can be so proud.

[spanone]

9. it's only torture if you die? ok

[Kermitt Gribble]

11. K & R, but

who are the ones questioning? It would be wonderful to hear some foreign govts speak out on this, but if the "questioning" is coming from this country, you can rest assured there will be no action taken.

[Liberal Dose]

14. More proof that McCain was never tortured. The MSM must STOP saying he was tortured as a POW

because it was merely "enhanced interrogation." :mad:

[Disturbed]

20. Does anyone believe that Torture methods are not being used

today? Most of the articles about Torture imply that the methods were used many years ago & are no longer in practice. I do not doubt that Torture of Detainees is still going on, esp. in secret locations. The Busholini Regime is the most corrupt & vile of any Regime in American History.

[alfredo]

19. Mr Rumsfeld wrote at the bottom "I stand for 8-10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to four hours

Well, rummy. let's put a bag over your head, keep you awake for two days, beat you, and chain you to a wall, then take you and put you up on a cardboard box, bag over your head, hands tied behind your back, and then threaten to beat you if you fall down. Let's see you stand there for four hours.

[FiveGoodMen]

21. Yes. By all means, lets!

I'd pay to see that.

[alfredo]

22. Go to work with one of the US backed mercenary firms and you might

get to take part.

[FiveGoodMen]

23. The US-backed firms are going to torture Rumsfeld?!

Boy, it's hard to keep up with the news these days!

[alfredo]

25. I guess if the money is right.

[bdamomma]

28. sleep deprivation too how about it Rummy and some loud music.

[alfredo]

30. The Henry Rollins Band would be perfect.

[Prophet 451]

26. No shit, Captain Obvious?

The US has been committing war crimes since day one of the Iraq invasion. I take no pleasure in saying that because I'd like to see the US live up to the dream of itself but crimes are crimes and those who committed or ordered these crimes need to be charged (and Blair can be charged as well).

[pleah]

29. "Some are now questioning whether the officials who authorized

these techniques MAY BE open to being charged with war crimes." These two words are worthless.
It should be changed to WILL BE.

:grr: