Is Phelps The Greatest Olympian ever?

[pokerfan]

Greater than Jesse Owens, Nadia Comaneci, Carl Lewis, etc.? Twice as great as Jesse Owens who only won four? Three times greater than say, Steve Redgrave who needed five consecutive Olympics to manage just five gold medals?

Don't get me wrong, I loved seeing history being made last night, that is when NBC finally got around to airing it for us "disadvantaged" time-zoners, but some sports (swimming, gymnastics) simply offer more medal opportunities than others. Some present an athlete with exactly one medal opportunity every four years.

:hide:

[BlooInBloo]

1. I think there's an idiot-compulsion in people, forcing them to say every is "TEH GREATEST EVAH!"....

everytime something awesome happens. They just can't help themselves.

[book_worm]

2. Phelps is the official poster boy of these olympic games for the American audience

that decision was made long ago. He is talented and worthy of respect for his achievements, but so are so many others that don't get slobbered about by the corporate media.

[pokerfan]

8. Yeah, you won't see a discus thrower win eight golds

in one Olympics. I'm thinking of Al Orter, of course. Won gold in four straight Games.

Want the media slobber? Excel in a sport that allows multiple medals.

[NewJeffCT]

3. He may be the greatest Olympic athlete ever, however

I think that Jesse Owens is the best Olympian ever because of the situation of his performance.

[Oregone]

34. Personally, it may be more likely a gold winner of the Decathlon is the greatest Olympic "Athelete"

...But I guess it depends on your definition of athleticism, or "Athlete" for that matter.

And with that thought, we can also turn our attention to the ancient participants of these events, who very well may have encompassed every aspect of competition and athleticism.

[dems_rightnow]

4. Nah

But he's the greatest swimmer ever.

[tannybogus]

5. No. I think Jim Thorpe was.

He blew away marks in the pentathalon and decathalon.His stood for years.

He had to excel in a variety of sports. His medals and records were taken

away for playing minor league baseball, but they were returned in 1982.
:popcorn:

[pokerfan]

10. Good example

Decathlon requires excellence in ten activities but only gets you one medal.

[trof]

11. Seconded.

And he had the whole Indian thing to deal with.
He won on pure, raw athletic skill, stamina, and ability in spite of all the racial barriers/stereotyping/obstacles that he had to overcome.

[Canuckistanian]

28. Wasn't Thorpe voted the "Athlete of the Century"?

And your point about the decathlon and pentathlon are relevant.

He was a great all-round athlete, not just a very good specialist.

[Aristus]

46. Jim Thorpe will always be the greatest Olympian ever. Although Jesse Owens is a close second.

And Tommie Smith and John Carlos deserve special recognition for their athleticism, their eloquence, and their determination to be "heard" without even opening their mouths. :patriot:

[alarimer]

6. Yes absolutely.

And you are right in that he competes in a sport in which it is possible to do what he did. Still it is an incredible feat for the sheer amount of swimming that he had to do.

It is also sort of hard to compare between eras. He has significant advantages in technology and training techniques over Mark Spitz, for example.

[Mz Pip]

7. He's pretty awesome

but he does have the advantage of competing in a sport that has numerous events,as you pointed out. Even a gymnast doesn't have 8 events to compete in. I think it's probably true for track and field as well.

Jesse Owens was the greatest not just because of what he did, but when and where he did it. It was historical on more levels than just his running fast.

[Oregone]

37. And to further elaborate on the advantage of the sport, wrestlers for example...

...may be incredibly athletic by any means you may define it to be so, yet they can simply be limited to winning a single Gold every 4 years.

Dan Gable won a single lousy gold medal at the Olympics. Is Phelps 14X greater of an Olympic Athlete, or athlete in general, than the legendary Dan Gable?


(With all due respect to Phelps!)

[BulletproofLandshark]

9. 14 gold medals say all that needs to be said.

But I'll say a little more anyway. His competitors had as many chances to qualify for the events Phelps won as he did. Yeah, Phelps had more chances at gold. But to me that only bolsters his case. He raced at multiple distances, both individually and as part of a relay. He swam in 17 races total, including qualifying heats. And triumphed every time.

[pokerfan]

23. Yeah, but what you are saying is

that if you're a boxer, high jumper, fencer, wrestler, marathoner, decathlete, sprinter, etc. you can't be the greatest because you will never even have a chance to win eight golds in a single Olympics.

There's a reason that Spitz (another swimmer) held that record for 32 years.

[progdonkey]

47. yes, his competitors who are other swimmers...

That's the point: he's better than all the other swimmers, but who says that swimmers are at the top of the athletic food chain, so to speak? No one else gets all these chances, so treating him as though he's better than a marathon runner (or a decathlete, etc.) who does one huge athletic performance but gets just one gold for it all is just not fair to the other athletes.

NBC loves Michael Phelps because swimming is the perfect sport for American TV: short bursts of activity that are completely over in less than five minutes (with everyone going at once), complete with a medal ceremony for every two minutes in the water, followed by a commercial break. (The shorter running events are admittedly similar.)

Yes, he's won 8 golds and is clearly one of the best--if not the best--swimmers of all time, but is he the "GREATEST OLYMPIAN EVAR!!!11!!" or even greatest athlete ever? There's really no telling since you're comparing apples and oranges, but I would say it's doubtful.

[BulletproofLandshark]

48. I guess he should have taken a taxi to run track too then.

Christ, what else was Phelps supposed to do? He dominated the pool in every conceivable way. I guess he wasn't good enough to be the best ever unless he was walking on top of the water instead.

[progdonkey]

53. well, he COULD try a 40k bike ride and 10k run afterward for a start...

I don't have a problem with him getting attention for being an amazing swimmer, but they talk about him as though that makes him better than every other Olympian. "His 8 Golds beats the other guy's 2 Golds" with no context as to what that second person did to get those two golds.

Yes, doing a full triathlon, with a 1500m open-ocean swim, 40km bike ride, and 10km run, lasting almost two hours is a HELL of a lot more difficult than ALL of the events Michael Phelps has competed in. In fact, the total he's swum so far is just 1500m--in short bursts with long pauses in between--yet he gets eight golds, when a triathlete then goes on to bike and run for 50km for a single medal?! (What were you saying about running track afterward?)

And Phelps is the one who gets all the coverage, with people talking about whether he might just be the "greatest Olympian ever"?

Edited to add: Okay, I forgot about the prelims, etc. on his individuals, so it's more like 3500km swim. So, swimming twice total what the triathlete does, who still goes on for 50km more on the bike and on foot. But still, the overall point is that it IS different, and it's not right for him to be treated (as he is by NBC and, it seems, by his fans) like he's eight times the Olympian because he has 8 golds when someone else "only" has one.

[pokerfan]

52. NBC has ADD

They cut away from the 1500 twice last night for commercials! It's a 14 minute race for crying out loud.

[MiniMe]

12. He is a great olympian

And this one isn't

[xtychx]

13. I would say yes but with some close competition by non Olympians

Thinking Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Bobby Jones...

But if its just the Olympics, yes, he is probably the best Olympian ever.

[dems_rightnow]

16. You can't be serious

Tiger Woods and Bobby Jones were never in an Olympics at all.

Gretzky was there, but didn't medal.

[xtychx]

18. Thats why I said non Olympians...n/t

[dems_rightnow]

20. After you changed it, you bet.

[dems_rightnow]

19. Oh I see you've amended that now.... N/T

[Liberal_in_LA]

14. Didn't Carl Lewis and other greats win gold in multiple sports. Phelps just swims.

Don't mean to put down Phelp's accomplishments but he's in one sport.

[dems_rightnow]

21. Carl Lewis was just track and field

[Poiuyt]

29. The sports within track & field can be quite different

Carl Lewis was both a sprinter and a long jumper. Those aren't as hugely different as say a decathlete would encounter, nor was he as versatile as Jesse Owns, who also hurdled. But, still.

[givemebackmycountry]

15. Don't forget about this guy...

He was pretty smooth as well.
And he kind of sort of looks like someone we all like here as well...

That would be Eric Hieden - next to Gretzky - the coolest man on blades.

[Sancho]

17. So quickly we forget!

You can count medals, but it's hard to beat the performance of Bruce Jenner in 1976. A once in a century happening against all the odds.

[pokerfan]

25. Phffft... one gold medal

Phelps is like 14 times greater than Jenner.

:hide:

[muriel_volestrangler]

39. What was special about it? Why was it 'against the odds'?

or 'once in a century'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decathlon#World_Records

What makes him different from other decathlon winners?

[dysfunctional press]

22. jim thorpe, hands down.

in the 'modern era', anyway.

[Occam Bandage]

24. I'd give that honor to Mr. Owens, personally. Greatness ain't just medal count.

For greatest athlete to participate in the Olympics, maybe Thorpe?

[IntravenousDemilo]

26. I don't know if total number of gold medals is a really accurate gauge of who is the best.

Swimmers, gymnasts, etc, are able to enter several smaller events and thus have the opportunity to amass several golds in a single Olympics. Marathon runners and triathletes, by nature of their much larger-scale, longer, and thus much more arduous events, don't have the same opportunity -- so I tend to weight their medals as more significant. But who would claim that, say, Paavo Nurmi shouldn't be considered one of the greatest Olympic athletes of all time?

[ben_meyers]

27. Milo of Kroton

Six-time Olympic victor:
Won once in boys' wrestling, 60th Olympiad, 540 BCE
five-time wrestling champion from 62nd to 66th Olympiad, 532 to 516 BCE

Champion in 6 consecutive games!!! Had to be in his 40's when finally defeated. Lets see Phelps do that!

[XOKCowboy]

43. Jim Thorpe would have kicked his butt..

:)

[Stuart G]

30. No......Eric Heiden........clearly dominated more than Phelps..yes..

Eric Heiden won 5 gold medals in speedskating (500m, 1,000m, 1,500m, 5,000m and 10,000m), setting 4 Olympic records and 1 world record (10,000m) in the process. Heiden was the first to win 5 individual gold medals at one Games.

[Stuart G]

32. Here is a link on Heiden..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Heiden

He dominated his sport in all areas.......and won every individual competition there was in Speed Skating at the 1980 Olympics........and I might add, afterwards..did not choose to make any money or endorsements on his performance.....
.unlike Spitz who sought out every penny there was.......and as much publicity as possible...

[pokerfan]

33. An excellent counterexample

to those arguing that Phelps swam different distances. Heiden skated distances ranging from 500 to 10K. Phelps swam 100, 200 and 400 meter distances.

[itsrobert]

31. Jim Thorpe

end of discussion.

[MrSlayer]

35. Probably the greatest swimmer ever.

It's hard to say who the greatest olympian ever is.

[jmowreader]

36. He's the greatest Olympic swimmer ever

But I really hate "this guy is the greatest Olympian ever" when he only competes in one sport.

[Oregone]

38. Now there we go!

I think that pretty much settles it, using those terms!

[hootinholler]

40. OMG! Hell No! I'm surprised that China even let the God Hates Fags dude in!

Weren't they sued for a brazilian dollars? How did they get the money to travel that far?



What? Micheal Phelps?

Oh, that's something completely different!

Nevermind.

-Hoot

[AllentownJake]

41. Jim Thorpe

He only got two gold medals but they were in the decathalon and pentathalon.

[XOKCowboy]

42. Jim Thorpe...

Jacobus Franciscus "Jim" Thorpe (Sac and Fox (Sauk) from Oklahoma: Wa-Tho-Huk) (May 28, 1888 – March 28, 1953<1>) was an American athlete. Considered one of the most versatile athletes in modern sports, he won Olympic gold medals in the pentathlon and decathlon, played American football collegiately and professionally, and also played professional baseball and basketball. He subsequently lost his Olympic titles when it was found he was paid for playing two seasons of minor league baseball before competing in the games (thus violating the amateur status rules).

That's the pentathlon and decathlon. From Wikipedia:

The decathlon is an athletic event combining ten track and field events. Events are held over two consecutive days and the winners are determined by the combined performance in all. Performance is judged on a points system in each event, not by the position achieved.<1> The decathlon is contested by male athletes, while female athletes contest the heptathlon.

Traditionally, the title of "World's Greatest Athlete" has been given to the man who wins the decathlon. This began when King Gustav V of Sweden told Jim Thorpe, "You, sir, are the World's Greatest Athlete" after Thorpe won the decathlon at the Olympics in Stockholm in 1912.

OK so Phelps and Spitz won more medals than anyone else in swimming. That's great and I respect both. But they're not all around athletes. Phelps is made for swimming but can he run?

[MilesColtrane]

44. Wa-Tho-Huk

also known as Jim Thorpe

[entanglement]

45. Nooooo oooooo ooooooo oooo oooo oooo oooooo oooo ooooooooooo ooooo ooooooo oooo

[riverdeep]

49. Yes he is.

And the USA is the greatest country ever. And Ford beats Chevy always. Coke- just for the taste of it.

[bridgit]

50. yep...

[Missy Vixen]

51. I have one phrase for you: 1980 US hockey team

Michael Phelps is an amazing athlete and one of the best ever, but the above event electrified a nation.

Julie