I would NEVER kiss the ass of a religious asshole to advance my career.

[Philosoraptor]

And that's what BOTH of the candidates did last night, something I would never do, and something that makes them both look like idiots in my book.

FUCK the Christian conservatives, I WILL NEVER, NEVER, EVER KISS THEIR SANCTIMONIOUS ASSES.

[tekisui]

1. knr!

[babylonsister]

2. Then it's a good thing you're not running. The reality is, they both

got free coverage and a wide audience of interested people who wanted to hear what they believe and how they express themselves. Ignoring the Christian conservatives won't make them go away.

[elocs]

13. Amen to that, sister. There's too many here at DU who are not in touch with reality.

The point of Obama running for president is to actually win the election and not to see how many people he can piss off. I'm sorry there are apparently some who do not understand how this process works. The truth is that Obama is a Christian and that he does have spiritual and faith based beliefs that are important to him and there is nothing wrong that he expresses them.

[Golden Raisin]

17. I find it exceedingly disturbing

(whatever their individual motivations) that both candidates felt it necessary and perhaps imperative to appear on a panel hosted not by a civic organization such as the League of Women Voters but a religious organization.

[madeline_con]

27. Religious people vote, Obama's been falsely maligned,

and Grumpy was shown as the insincere war mongerer that he is. It was time toi clear the air.

The forum was designed to ask questions about core beliefs that everyone deals with. Not to address them is to pretend a large voting block either doesn't exist or doesn't matter.

[blues90]

25. the reality is

they just both made asses out of themselves and will never get the vote of those who don't feel religion belongs in politics. free air time , us it for something that benefits all the people or get the hell off the stage. It's pandering at it's best , why not go pander to the scientolgists next week ,they can go on tour and never come back .

[MicaelS]

31. Then you will be left out of politics

Polls have repeatedly shown the overwhelming majority of Americans profess some sort of religious faith and that faith plays an important part in their lives. The truth of the matter is an avowed Atheist would have zero chance of every being elected to national office and candidates know that.

Those that feel as you do are in a distinct minority and candidates could for all practical intents and purposes dismiss you out of hand. Is that what you want, no voice at all because if you can't have it your way, then it's no way? Either that or you will be continually marginalized by voting for Third Parties that have zero chance of gaining power.

[blues90]

44. the polls my ass!

To even say that because I am not one who feels religion has a right to be part of politics that makes me dismissed ie not represented is by all terms and definition forcing religion down my throat.

You have it ass back wards. It's not about me having it all my way because I don't represent the majority belief, it is the religious having it all their way because they want to force their god and belief to control the masses. I don't recall every religious sect being represented on this insane , aired confession to some faith.

The only reason a third party has little change is because of the fools who want to hold onto this two party system which is killing everyone including the religious base yet they are too brainwashed and blind to see it is a one party system of inbreed corruption. Decades of power held all to themselves and passed on from one generation to the next in the political arena all connected to the spine of corporate criminality.

If by your definition and standards I am dismissed and in the minority than so be it , I am proud to be a humanitarian and left to think for myself without endless contemptuous influence darkening the room. When the shears come out we will still have our wool coats.

This all reminds me of the fools who said I have nothing to hide so it's ok to spy on me and so let it be done, and it was.

Lets not forget one thing , as far as candidates , they work for the people , all the people who pay their damn way and perks and health insurance. They want to profess their faith , do it in a church and if not then put church glass in the white house and capital and let the believers pay and leave the minorities out of it. Then we can truly be singled out and say we did not promote your wars and death machine. We did not do this hiding behind some god or say my god is better than yours, so lets have a war about it and kill people under the name of some god.

[earth mom]

51. Wake up! Who in the hell do you think funded those polls?! Don't believe any of the crap

the corporate media is feeding you! It's ALL lies.

[Odin2005]

79. It's a PROVEN FACT that those polls are biased.

Polls like the one saying that 90% of Americans believe in God are worded so that they exaggerate how religious the US really is. In reality, about 1 in 4 Americans is are atheists, agnostics, deists, or just don't give a damn.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

35. So you aren't voting for Obama, then?

Thanks. Very productive.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nichomachus]

53. Neither will groveling in front of them

This country won't be free until we get religion and corporate money out of politics.

[babylonsister]

75. Your definition of groveling is way different than mine.

And good luck with that goal this year. I'm a realist, you obviously aren't.

[LaurenG]

3. Good because that would be totally counterproductive

You have to realize that fanatics are scared, power mongers and the last thing we need is more of the same.

For the record, it is my opinion that the majority of people of faith are not jerks or fanatics.

[TooBigaTent]

4. AND, now those who are not "believers" truly have no horse in this race. Did either make any

statement even hinting that athiests, etc. are still entitled to live in their deist/Christist Amerika?

We knew that we do not belong in the puke camp. We suspected that we also do not belong in Obama's party. Now, it is official.

[madeline_con]

28. Neither made any statement hinting that athiests, etc. are to be deported.

Get off your high horse and calm down. I vote in a church. That's where the polls are. Even though I'm not a memeber, I don't picket and make a completely confused ass out of myself on election day just becuase of the venue.

[hendo]

46. Yeah, ignore religion

and lose the way Kerry did. Smary move.

Get over yourself.

[napi21]

5. McNut was doing a lot of that for sure, but I don't believe that was

Obama's intent. He wants at least some of their votes, and I want them for him. I think his intent of going to that forum last night was to demonstrate to not only Christians, but all voters that he thiks a lot like they do. He's concerned about people's lives, assisting the poor, and helping improve everyone's life.

To completely dismiss a lot of American people out of hand as you just did is NEVER going to help bring our country together, and if we remain as divided as we've been, NOTHING will ever be accomplished.

[stillcool]

6. Good for you

[Philosoraptor]

7. This actually happened to me once.

I was applying for a job as a sign painter, the shop owner put me to work, then put on the Christian conservative right wing radio shows he listened to all day, he then informed me that the guy I was replacing complained about his religiosity and he was fired because of it. I quit later that day.

[hendo]

47. freedom of religion means that that guy has the right

to listen to whatever he wants on the radio. If you have a problem with what your boss listens to, you have every right to quit, which is what you did. However, do not fault him for it.

If the guy prior to you spent too much time complaining to actually do his job, then the boss had every right to fire him for it.

[Saturday]

8. Both candidates turned me off last night. Ours and theirs. nt

[ChazII]

9. K&R #5 n/t

[Hepburn]

10. Yeppers!!

:applause:

Fuck the RR...actually, if one thinks about it, the phrase should be: UNfuck the RR ~~ they are fucked up enough already!

[Renew Deal]

11. Is your boss an atheist?

Uh huh

[Philosoraptor]

12. Self employed, so...yes.

[beam me up scottie]

14. !

:rofl:

[saltpoint]

15. IMO Obama conceded nothing of what he had already studied and

learned and had command of well prior to being in public office.

I certainly think your descrption fits McCain, who after all publicly attacked Falwell and Robertson as kooks in year 2000 then, in a fit of what was to be 8 more years of sustained pandering to the Far Right, apologized.

Obama is one of them there inteleckshuls -- and he knows his stuff.

IMO one of the things he knows is his way around the New Testament and sees in its essence the imperative of service to others. He draws from it as a well which quells the thirst of many but is not himself a Biblical literalist and even less a panderer to those who are.

The percentage of folks who are fundamentalist Christians in this country is disturbingly high. Obama's redefinition of their own faith exposes their own ignorance and calls for a redirection from judgment to service, and from the on-high abstract to the day-to-day realistic.

[Philosoraptor]

18. You make good points. & Obama's sprituality seems more genuine than gramp's

[madeline_con]

29. That was quite eloquent.

The "redefinition of their own faith" comment hit squarely on the nails' head. :applause:

[Festivito]

16. So, as long as non religious nor sanctimonious you would kiss ass.

Just wanted to get that straight.

The religiously sanctimonious may be fat and ugly, but I'll give that they do bathe regularly.

To each his own.

[Philosoraptor]

19. Yes

[Festivito]

21. How about a non-sanctimonious religious person, say a UU?

Unitarian Universalist. They tend to be democratic, quiet, open, and clean.

I ask because I do not understand this degree of fervor.

Perhaps it is momentary.

[krabigirl]

20. Me neither. Never.

[lonestarnot]

22. Is Jesus running for office? I don't think he would like running for office.

He didn't need an office. :crazy:

[RayOfHope]

23. Huh. I must have missed the part where Obama kissed anyone's ass. n/t

[polmaven]

36. Me too!

And I watched the full two hours. I didn't even see the part where Pastor Rick ASKED him to kiss anyone's ass. Hmmm...Must've fallen asleep or something.

[OnionPatch]

41. I missed it too.

I guess even talking about your religious views is ass-kissing to some people.

As long as something like 80-90% of Americans base their moral convictions on a religious philosophy of some kind or other, religion will be part of the national and political conversation. I'm glad Obama was open enough to share his views with Americans.

[Bill McBlueState]

59. Religion has always been popular in America

But have leading Presidential candidates always gone in front of a leading pastor to explicitly discuss their religion? Can you imagine Thomas Jefferson doing such a thing?

People who think Saturday night's fiasco is just a natural expression of the candidates' religious beliefs need some historical perspective.

[2008]

65. Because you weren't fucked up when you watched it

Just swig a half-bottle of bourbon before the next televised Obama event. Then you'll have the nerve start a thread on a Dem site bashing him

[Philosoraptor]

74. I didn't watch the damned thing, I'd have to be drunk to stand it.

[2008]

85. Then what's this nonsense about Obama kissing ass?

Obama says he has certain sincere religious beliefs. I don't happen to share them, but nothing about his religious belief system bothers me.

You didn't watch it, and yet he's an ass-kisser?

Is there anything else he hasn't done that you wouldn't do either?

[autorank]

24. I'd never know who one was but, even if I did, I'd NEVER do it.

Glass booth? Sounds like a massive security risk to me.

[madeline_con]

26. Obama is Christian, said so and kissed No One's ass.

He was the most Christian person on stage, as a matter of fact.

These bent, twisted, rapture awaiting La Haye folllowers saw Obama for what he is. A peaceful, level headed man who passed no judgement. He gave his views on tough subjects without condemning anyone else. That is a true Christian. Other people can see that.

You misunderstood what he said if you think he kissed someone's ass.

[trashcanistanista]

30. Look, these people have infiltrated our

government, our schools and our workplaces with their crazy views and they need to be flushed out. In order for that to happen Obama needs to get as many votes as possible. I think he got a few last night, he was excellent. It was good exposure, if for nothing else than the tv audience.

He compromised nothng. He must get elected, that is all there is to it. He knows it, we know it, they know we know it. He took one for team last night. He should be commended.

[frogmarch]

32. My sentiments, exactly. K&R nt

[wtmusic]

33. Would you do it to advance democratic principles in America?

More than Obama's career is at stake.

[trashcanistanista]

42. This is a good point and I want to add that despite

the fact that this is way out of our comfort zones, it is inevitable that when you canvass, phonebank or table you run into these people and it is always best to be cordial, exercise restraint where necessary and take an honest approach. Do whatever it takes to get a vote. That's what this is about.

[hendo]

49. but, the point remains

that he did not kiss anyones a**, nor is Rev. Warren an a**hole.

[Skittles]

71. that is YOUR opinion nt

[hendo]

82. granted

but which part did you have a problem with?

edit: everything here is someone's opinion.

[hendo]

34. Warren is not a religious asshole n/t

[Subdivisions]

37. I'm am not religious and I'm not that familiar with Rick Warren, but

I think I would have to agree with you. Pastor Warren seems to be a genuinely good person, unlike many of the over-the-top evangelists we've been used to seeing.

[hendo]

39. his books are pretty good too n/t

[trashcanistanista]

38. No, he's not as bad as say Hagee. It was a safer

choice to go with this particular choice of churches. This was carefully thought out ahead of time to ensure the best results. The campaign knows what it's doing.

[hendo]

40. He was a very safe choice

and, he was also a favorite of Edwards.

Warren is a well respected priest who has repeatedly been supported of fostering people's differences. He isn't one of those jackasses who only wants peple to be a direct copy of himself.

[nichomachus]

54. Are you saying he's not religious or not an asshole? n/t

[hendo]

81. not an asshole n/t

[Bill McBlueState]

60. What's Warren's stance on equality for gays and lesbians? n/t

[Skittles]

70. YES HE IS nt

[merh]

43. Being respectful of the views of others is "kissing ass" ?

You will never hold elected office either and I think it is safe to assume you will never run for office.

[tammywammy]

48. Yes, yes, but it was religion don't you see!

All us religious folks are just ignorant hicks, therefore we don't deserve respect. Poor Obama being so stupid to actually let it be known he's a Christian. :eyes:

[earth mom]

50. Both Obama & McCain will do ANYTHING to win. Kiss religious & corportate a$$? No problem!

This is exactly why I've been saying for months that nothing is going to change in '09 and beyond. :banghead:

Gotta say it: I told ya'll so.

[Kazak]

52. I believe everyone is religious, it's an integral part of what makes us human.

To me, the issue of religious authenticity comes down to do your religious beliefs STILL advocate for the existence of the supernatural (I don't think there's any excuse for this in our time)? Far too many still do for my comfort, indeed the majority, and that includes both of these schmucks. And yes, I still intend to vote for that schmuck, Obama! :shrug: But, I have very little patience left for supernaturalists.

[guruoo]

55. Would you do it if that's what it took to get our country back? n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

56. I think it's very sad

in this very diverse country of ours, with citizens who practice all the major religions -- and many minor ones, as well -- that the Christians (and maybe Jews of the AIPAC variety) are the only ones who seem to receive attention from the candidates. When are the Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and atheists going to have a candidate concerned about their issues? Who will speak for the Tao?

Either pander to them all or pander to none. This is the land of equality, after all -- or at least that's what they like to tell us.

[anonymous171]

57. And I would never walk into such an obvious trap.

But regardless of the authenticity of the event, Obama did great.

[lumberjack_jeff]

58. It is more than a career.

Losing is not an option.

[entanglement]

61. The ass of an asshole...that's like deeeeep man. Pass the bong.

:evilgrin:






/On a serious note, I agree with you - pandering to the RR is obnoxious.

[otherlander]

62. Me either

but maybe I would to save America from a greedy old man.

[Critters2]

63. The funny thing is that we had a long discussion of this during coffee AT CHURCH...

and everyone agreed with you. Both candidates were pandering. And lost the respect of a lot of people--religious and not.

[AllentownJake]

64. This isn't a fucking career move

Its the Presidency. Its not like there aren't dire consequences depending on which guy gets the job.

[Skittles]

69. OMG

:rofl:

[cali]

66. ROFL. You, of all posters here, remind me of them. Smug and self-righeous. Ugh.

[Philosoraptor]

73. "Them"? You mean those giant ants?

Ain't there a "T" in righteous?

[Neshanic]

67. Very good post. I agree completely.

[Skittles]

68. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

THANK YOU INDEED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Philosoraptor]

72. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[HamdenRice]

76. You would also probably never run for president

He is not running for a lifetime achievement award from the Association of Progressive Secularists. He's running for president of the United States.

The ass kissing has only begun, but this is same as it ever was. In order to avoid a McCain presidency, I will gladly support him in smooching as many constituency asses as is required.

[Philosoraptor]

78. If I did, I wouldn't kiss Warren's ass, or any other religious kook's.

[charlie and algernon]

80. and you would not only lose, but get your ass handed to you

God forbid Obama reach out to fellow Americans when running for President of the United States of America.

[DailyGrind51]

77. Ah, but would you sleep with your boss to protect your job?

[RedShoes]

83. That's because you're not running for president.

I couldn't do it either. Too many deals with the devil for my stomach.

[Philosoraptor]

84. Not even if I was.

[NYC Liberal]

86. How many jobs require you to submit to a vote of 300 million different people? nt