JetBlue Has Grandmother Arrested For Refusing To Delete An Unflattering Video Recording

[tannybogus]

<snip>
Parver said she believes she was wrongfully detained for refusing to delete from her camera an in-flight argument between passengers on July 26.

"I was taking photos from my window seat of clouds, and I was wearing a noise-reduction headset with a TV show playing loudly in my ears," Parver said. "Even with the headset on, I had been able to hear a very loud child seated a few rows in front of me annoying everyone for approximately two hours.

"Suddenly, I heard loud shouts and removed my headset," she added. "I realized that the man seated next to the loud child had finally lost it."

At that point, the child's mother and the passenger were yelling at each other, Parver added.

"On instinct, I turned my video camera towards the altercation," Parver said.

Having just left from a visit with her grandchild in Boston, Parver said she thought the video would be a good example to show her daughter how children's behavior affects other people.

Parver said she did not leave her seat or even stand up in it.
<snip>

http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=16860

She was led off the plane in handcuffs.

These grandmas are getting out of hand. First one is hauled from Target to get a mental

evaluation and now this. They aren't setting an example that the government will like.

Off to Gitmo they go.
:yoiks:

[LisaM]

1. I don't think she should have been led off the plane

But it's pretty rude to film something like that. We all have moments when we lose it. We don't deserve to have them all committed to film.

[INDIA]

8. Rude? Arguably. Legal? Yes. n/t

[LisaM]

14. I actually don't believe it's legal to not follow the captain's directions

however, be that as it may, it was a sidebar comment. I am really sick of Big Brother - e.g., everyone filming everything all the time. I was at the National Gallery last week, and you'd have thought that I was interrupting everyone's personal photo shoot. I was just trying to look at the pictures and it seemed that there were squadrons of amateur photographers everywhere acting as if I was in the way. I feel bad for the man who snapped after being annoyed by a loud child for two hours. He does not deserve to make it into someone's home-baked video.

[truebrit71]

61. ..and she knew it was from the captain because the stewardess said so? I don't think so...

The stewardesses were probably more concerned about THEIR behaviour during the incident being filmed rather than anything else...One of them told the grannie "it is illegal to use anything electronic in flight"...Like laptops, cd players and iPods? THAT is just bullshit...

I applaud this person for sticking to her guns and I hope people get their asses fired for this...

[INDIA]

65. If the cabin told her to do a headstand until landing, she would not have to.

It's not a reasonable instruction. Neither is ordering somebody to erase their film, unless there is some sort of national security matter.

What she filmed was visible to everybody else on the plane, out in the open. She had a right to film. Unless the airlines create an across the board "do not film" regulation with a good purpose, they can't prohibit this. They can't just cherry pick who can and cannot take pictures and in only certain situations.

Would it bother you if they were only stopping muslim passengers from taking pictures? And allowing sorority girls on spring break to click away?

[WhiteTara]

13. don't want to be photgraphed in public

doing something stupid ,ugly and rude? Don't do it.

[LisaM]

24. Oh please. The kid should not have been screaming for so long.

Agree with the poster who said that. The mother should not have argued with the man who yelled at her about it.

I don't think it's okay to go around filming everyone. It's Big Brotherish. It's not the poor man's fault he reached the end of his tether. Sometimes I think we're just a network of spies.

[WhiteTara]

41. I was thinking of her videoing the creepy mother

who let her kid scream on the plane. Those kind of families should only go to McDonalds....was it the guy who complained? I thought he would have loved the back up. In the words of Emily Letella...Never mind.

[RC]

22. What was rude was the mother letting the kid scream for so long.

That mother should have been led off the plane in hand cuffs for terrorism or child endangerment or something.

I'm waiting for some gun nut to say that would not have happened if guns were allowed on planes. :sarcasm:

[ManiacJoe]

37. You are correct.

This would not have happened if guns were allowed. What would have happened is the child would have been shot, the mother shot twice, and the shooter given credit for life-time free flights and a standing ovation from the other passengers.

(Did I get it right?) :evilgrin:

[RC]

47. Yep.

:thumbsup:

[Greyhound]

85. LOL!

:rofl:

[nc4bo]

2. Poor granny should of flown on Southwest, they throw people w/bad kids off da plane hehe. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

3. If my granny were still alive, I'd kick her

That'll show 'er.

Damned grannies.

Like a scourge, I tell ya ..... a scourge.

[LaurenG]

4. Jet Blue should be sued if this is all there is to the story.

This whole thing stinks.

[sniffa]

5. What happened at Target?

:shrug:

Oh, and she should sue the pants off of them.

[tannybogus]

There's an earlier post today

a 79 yr old woman was taken for a mental evaluation
when she asked for a refund. That's the gist.

[baldguy]

25. Here

A woman asked for (gasp!!) a refund & the police took her in for a mental evaluation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3796200

[Canuckistanian]

6. Tyrants HATE video cameras

And unless you're on THEIR private property, they have no right to prevent someone from recording a public event.

And in this case, I think the cabin of an airplane can easily be considered a public place.

I hope she sues.

[ColbertWatcher]

7. I wonder though if an airplane cabin is considered a public place. Does anyone know for sure? n/t

[NashVegas]

16. Well, It's a Public Space You Have to Pay Hundreds of Dollars To Be In

And because of that, I think people should have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Had the people acting up done anything that would constitute being arrested, themselves, it would have been newsworthy, but all they did was get into a shouting match.

on edit: if you read the full story, the woman comes off as a major jerk, IMO.

[progressoid]

48. Umm...it's a privately owned aircraft. Not a public space.

I'm not making a statement about who's in the wrong, just that this is a private space. Like a night club but with tons more restrictions and regulations.

[LostinVA]

18. Probably not -- it's probably considered private property, and the Captain's domain

[Canuckistanian]

19. The airline has no expectation of "privacy" in a case like this

I'm not sure about legal precedents, but filming something in the cabin of an airplane or on the deck of a cruise ship while in transit SHOULDN'T be considered filming "a private space".

I may be wrong.

[NashVegas]

21. Even If The Other Passengers Had No Expectation of Privacy

The airline owns the plane and should have the rights to set policy of what is and isn't acceptable in this instance. Read the full article. This woman appears to come off as someone who was spoiling for a fight from the first.

[ManiacJoe]

38. Are we reading the same article?

The granny was polite and respectful. She also understood her rights and correctly stood up for them. The flight crew had no right (legally or morally) to demand anything from her regarding the video except to stop recording. They cannot take anything from her nor have anything deleted. The police have no authority to take anything or have anything deleted unless they have the correct legal paperwork.

[NashVegas]

51. Polite and Respectful?

Sure, if you think it's your god-given right to shoot anyone, anywhere, you want.

Having just left from a visit with her grandchild in Boston, Parver said she thought the video would be a good example to show her daughter how children's behavior affects other people.

Overly critical & controlling - needs to demonstrate to her daughter to raise a child properly?

"A JetBlue employee settles the dispute very appropriately," Parver said. "There was no violence or extreme behavior."

And because of that, she doesn't have the "newsworthy" umbrella to justify recording another person without their consent.

"After viewing the video, they demanded that I delete it," Parver said. "I asked, 'Why?' The head-stewardess went as far as to tell me that I had broken a law by using an electronic item during the flight."

All we have here is granny's side. We don't know what language was used by the flight attendant. Anything that doesn't come in the shape of a request is going to come across as a demand. We don't know whether it was a statement of policy or an aggressive demand.

At that time, another flight attendant accused Parver of wanting to put it up on YouTube, a video-sharing Web site.

"I do not even know how to download a video on the Internet," Parver said.

The flight attendant should have kept the YouTube accusation to herself, but I call bullshit on granny - or was she going to wait until the next time she flew up to Boston to show her daughter the vid?


After refusing and returning to her seat, the crew asked Parver to return to the back of the plane again, she said.

"This time they told me that the captain demanded that I delete the video," Parver added.

Parver requested to speak to the captain by telephone to confirm the demand.

Add arrogant.

"If the captain had nicely asked me to delete the video, I don't think I would have disobeyed a pilot," Parver said.

Since when is it possible to disobey someone asking nicely?

"I'm a rational, non-threatening 56-year-old grandmother who was complying with every request the flight crew made, other than delete two minutes of video," Parver said.

Which was the thing being asked of her.

Parver said she politely told the flight crew that she would accept being arrested since she did not believe she had broken any laws and returned to her seat.

Granny challenged the flight crew to a pissing match. Granny lost. It's that simple.

[truebrit71]

62. My. my we ARE a good little German aren't we?

..:eyes:

[ManiacJoe]

76. One can be polite and respectful while not allowing

oneself to be steamrolled by folks trying to abuse their authority.

Granny had every right to record what she did. The flight crew had no authority to ask/demand that the recording be deleted. Granny was smart in asking for the pilot to confirm the claim of the "illegal order" by the flight crew. The crew was smart enough to prevent her from documenting their lie.

"The police, a JetBlue rep and a TSA official all looked at the video and agreed that it was too dark to really see who was on it and that it clearly had been shot from my seat, so I had not interfered with anything that was going on," Parver said.
Now we have the proper authorities confirming no law has been broken thus far.

The one mistake Granny made was not leaving the office when ordered to do so. At that point she was arrested for trespassing (disobeying an officer). The last mistake by the police was denying her the names and badge numbers of all present as they are required to do.

[NashVegas]

78. No, Granny Did Not Have Every Right

She was on private property in the first place, and in the second, the other passengers had a reasonable expectation of privacy - ie, not having their conversation recorded for someone to get their jollies.

[ManiacJoe]

82. Close but no cigar.

On private property just means the "owners" can ask you to stop recording. At the most, they can ask you to leave the property.

Out in public, including on a mass transportation airplane, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. Any such expectation is wholely unreasonable and certainly not going to happen. However, the activities of most people as do normal/boring that they well get ignored, which often gets confused with privacy.

[pokercat999]

12. Exactly, I think any court would rule a person has no

right to expect privacy in a public place and this would include photographs and aeroplanes. I'm not an attorney and I slept at home last night but that's my guess.

[Canuckistanian]

23. It's not about the subject's expectation of privacy

It's about the recorder's right to tape in a public place.

And I think the plane's cabin is a public place, as much as the subway in New York or a train in Los Angeles.

[ColbertWatcher]

30. Well, I just watched a Holiday Inn commercial...

...so, it is my understanding that if it is a public space, and people were yelling, isn't that disturbing the peace?

Don't liberals get tasered for less?

[bean fidhleir]

46. Courts have ALREADY ruled that we have no expectation of privacy in a public place

We can't even assert our right to privacy in our very homes, sometimes.

"The Right To Privacy", Alderman & Kennedy, should frighten and sicken you.

[NashVegas]

52. Ever Buy a Concert Ticket

And see "no cameras" printed on it?

[truebrit71]

63. That has bugger all to do with "privacy" and EVERYTHING to do with the artists wanting to prevent...

...people (other than themselves) making money from their concerts....

Next?

[NashVegas]

68. So What? It's Private Property

As is an airplane.

[truebrit71]

73. No it isn't. You are deliberately missing the point. The camera ban is to prevent the punters making

money from selling piccies of the gig...as previously stated, it has bugger all to do with privacy...besides which, a concert arena is not a 'private' area...If it were the owners's woul dbe in all sorts of trouble for showing the crowds that go to sporting events there...

The "no camera" rule is in place by the ARTIST not the owner....

[NashVegas]

77. *Why* It's In Place Doesn't Matter

The legality does.

[LostinVA]

20. I doubt it's public property -- the plane is owned by a company

[benEzra]

34. They can only ask you to leave; they cannot order you to delete your photos.

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

[noamnety]

43. And they can forbid you to take photos on a plane

from that same link:

"Property owners may legally prohibit photography on their premises"

[TommyO]

49. They also have a responsibility to inform you of that policy if it exists

I checked the Jet Blue website couldn't find a policy on in-flight photography. In flight, if they ask you to stop taking photos, you have to comply, but they can't order you to delete pictures you've taken up to that point.

[benEzra]

54. But they CANNOT require you to delete photos you have already taken.

They can only inform you that continuing to remain and/or take additional photos will constitute a crime (on the ground, the crime would be trespassing; in the air, it would probably be failing to follow legitimate orders of the flight crew).

Photos that have already been legally taken (and her initial photography WAS legal) are YOUR property, not theirs.

[noamnety]

57. Yes, I know.

That's been stated several times in the thread, and it's in the link.

I was responding to people wondering whether they could forbid photography there at all, since they considered it "a public place."

[benEzra]

59. Ah, I see. (n/t)

[avaistheone1]

9. Freepers don't like grannies.

Grannies burn through all those entitlement dollars.

That is why the country has gone to hell in a hand basket per the freepers.

The war on terror is step closer to victory every time the man disses, arrests or tazzs a grannie.

[fascisthunter]

10. Sue JetBlue

has a ring to it, doesn't it?

[lonestarnot]

11. Was her camera waterboarded?

[MrCoffee]

15. You write the funniest headlines!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[LostinVA]

17. She deserves an award for understanding how annoying bad children are on planes

And, I am NOT talking about crying babies.

And, a free trip to a resort for wanting to show her daughter how to make her child behave in public,

:popcorn: but I meant what I said.

[roody]

70. Badly mannered children generally come with

badly mannered parents.

[Fumesucker]

26. OK, I'll bite..

Exactly _how_ do you silence a loud child on an airplane?

Somehow I think using a ball gag would get you in trouble.

Short of that I can't think of any way to definitively silence a child who is determined to be noisy.

Caveat, I grew up with a younger brother who was decidedly ADHD and could not be shut up short of gagging him, even beatings didn't work and he nearly drove both my parents and myself insane.

[nc4bo]

28. well there were options available to parents before the parent police decided that

our use of all those options were "off the table" and lumped all of us who embraced these options as being child abusers and the scum of society.

I know what I would have done with my kid, I also am aware of what the law says I can do to my kid (I have 2 great ones btw).

There is a time and a place for options, this looked like one of them.



You may commence stoning the bearer of the message........now.

[Fumesucker]

29. I already covered that...

Whipping my brother effected him not at all, in addition to being ADHD he had (and has) a very high pain threshold, I've literally seen him laugh while being whipped (needless to say this did not make my parents any happier).

There are some kids who are simply not amenable to discipline.

[nc4bo]

31. sorry about your brother, there's always exceptions.

but unless I missed it, there's no mention of those kids having any disabilities. :shrug:

**haven't gotten through the entire article yet.

[Fumesucker]

50. My brother is actually quite successful and very good guy..

He was just insanity making while we were growing up.

A strong environmentalist, he belongs to the Sierra Club, Arbor Day Foundation, Audubon Society and a bunch more I can't recall, he buys bird seed by the 50 lb bag, grows his own organic vegetables, etc, etc.

But trying to push him into anything is an exercise in futility.

[LeftyMom]

67. Hitting means you've run out of intelligent options.

It means you fail at parenting.

[mitchum]

40. Drug them

[izzybeans]

58. Any asshole that acts like that because of a child needs some serious help.

They have some seriously f'd up ideas about parenthood if they think that silencing a small child works like a magic trick.

[LeftyMom]

66. By teaching them how and when to STFU before you take them anywhere

As the username would indicate, I'm a parent. I have a typically boisterous seven year old boy. He just finally went for his first trip to the movie theater a few weeks ago because until then I wasn't sure he'd be able to sit down, be quiet and watch a whole movie without annoying anybody and I don't think that my decision to reproduce constitutes permission to let my child annoy everybody in earshot.

Likewise, if I didn't have every reason to believe that he would be quiet and well-behaved on a flight, I would arrange another means of travel or leave him home with family. I simply refuse to be the oblivious or inept parent everybody's shooting eye daggers at. While as a parent I'm sympathetic to the idea that kids are unpredictable, I know that it's a parent's responsibility to plan for contingencies and not allow their child to create problems for other people. I also realize that the foundation to today's misbehavior lies in yesterday's bad parenting decisions. If the child were effectively taught how to behave previously and plans were made for ways to keep the child busy and content on the flight, the child would be manageable even in a novel situation.

[Canuckistanian]

27. Holy shit. The more I read in this article, the more scared and angry I get.

First off - the attendants LIED to her when they said she "used an electronic item during the flight."

Excuse me? I've NEVER been on a flight where at least 10 laptops or cellphones or Blackberries WEREN'T being used DURING FLIGHT.

Second - She was accused of refusing to cease her "illegal behavior" of NOT erasing the camera. There was NO ongoing "behavior" to speak of.

Third - She was NOT charged with any crime other than "disobeying an officer", even though HER rights were violated.

In addition, she was accused of being drunk, of filming "suspicious things on board" the plane and unfairly manhandled to the point where she had bruises on her legs.

OK. Bring on the apologists.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[KharmaTrain]

33. More Post -911 Crapola

A couple years ago we were on a flight where the person next to me...a young man in the window seat took out his camera and wanted to pop pictures of the plane and out the window. No sooner was he about to snap away, a flight attendant came rushing up to him and told him it was against company policy for any photographs to be taken aboard the plane, then cited 9/11 as the reason. What was ironic, is the young man was wearing a uniform and was on his way to basic training...the first time he had been in an airplane and away from his family. Some terrorist this is.

I guess this lady now goes on the terrorist watch list. Hope she also finds a good lawyer and goes after JetblueGramps and gets a nice settlement.

[benEzra]

35. No one can order you to delete your photos...

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

If the news account is correct, the woman probably has a VERY good case for a lawsuit.

[NashVegas]

87. Would You Say She Has a Better Lawsuit

Than the people in the conversation, had the film been uploaded to YouTube?

[lib2DaBone]

36. Have you ever.....

Had to sit next to a screaming kid in a hot plane for 2 hours while the mother ignored it? Kids under 12 should be put in a special section in the back of the plane. It's not fair to all the other passengers.

[a la izquierda]

69. Completely agree. Do it like Churches do.

Soundproof and everything (though of course they can hear the captain and all that stuff).
Thought more frequently in my case it's been a screaming child behind me kicking my seat for hours.

Once, 10 of us passengers got into it with a mother who let her child run freely throughout the plane. The kid actually busted in the bathroom on me. I knew it was coming and shouted "boo" as loud as I could. Scared the hell out of him.

Let the flaming of us begin.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

39. The Storm Trooper Stewardess Strikes Again

Why the hell aren't these assholes being charged, prosecuted and imprisoned for making false police reports?
I would imagine throwing a few of these hags in jail would make this problem go away rapidly.

[Generic Brad]

42. There are two sides to every story

And when I read a story like this one or the Target story, I come away with a sense that significant details are missing. No offense to the poster. I enjoy these types of stories, but I have a hard time accepting them at face value.

[EFerrari]

45. I agree with that. The thing is, there are so many stories like this

lately that it begins to form a pattern.

[NashVegas]

53. Here's What It Comes Down To

For me, anyway.

You have the right to photograph or record someone, unknowingly, in a public place - as long as you accept the risk that someone's going to treat you like the asshole you probably are when they find out and get upset.

But this wasn't even a public place, so I think the airline acted appropriately to protect their other passengers' privacy.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

88. Because private citizens run to any media outlet to tell their story

The corporations just send out pat press releases.

When you talk to the employees, you find the true story.

[CreekDog]

44. yeah when people are yelling and screaming

...arrest the granny who is filming them.

what a country! :eyes:

[LanternWaste]

55. As an aside...

This is an example of why I'm much more concerned with being filmed/photographed by the typical civilian than I do about being filmed/photographed by a government agency (red light cameras, etc.).

The humiliations that wind up on YouTube are of a far greater disturbance to my own peace of mind than my license plate getting snapped by a law enforcement camera if I run a red light... :shrug:

[orleans]

56. i think i'll write a bestseller: GRANDMA GOES TO GITMO

thanks for the inspiration.

[truebrit71]

60. Wow...that'll be a nice sized lawsuit...

...JetBlue and the oinkers from LVPD should pay through the nose for this...

[NashVegas]

80. It Would Be An Even Nicer Sized Lawsuit

If the footage wound up on YouTube and the passengers who were recorded without their consent came across it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

64. "how children's behavior affects other people"

Oh STFU, grandma. Truly, fuck you. It's a plane. Fucking deal with it.

[LWolf]

71. This grandma

doesn't STFU on anyone's orders. I hope the grandma this story is about doesn't, either.

I've never felt the need to photograph or video strangers, and I'd be offended if it were done to me; I don't even like my picture taken by people who know me unless they ask first. I don't think it's a reason to be handcuffed and removed from your flight.

As far as how children's behavior affects others?

It's how EVERYONE'S behavior affects those around them.

Regardless of age, regardless of the setting.

American culture glorifies bullies, and bully-like behavior.

Like telling people to shut the fuck up.

[alcibiades_mystery]

72. Oh wah wah

People who get upset about small children on planes are fucking idiots. We're trying to have a society here.

[LWolf]

75. "We" is never universal.

If "we" were trying to have a "society" here, "we" wouldn't tell people to STFU, or respond to people in conversation with things like "oh wah wah."

Which is exactly my point. Nothing to do with children on airplanes. Everything to do with the number of ADULTS who behave no differently than young children.

[alcibiades_mystery]

81. And the whiney adults who cry bully

Every time their precious nerves are offended. Note that nobody was talking to YOU in my first post, busybody.

[LWolf]

86. Note that your posts illustrate my point to perfection. nt

[NashVegas]

79. She Wasn't Handcuffed for Shooting the Film

She was handcuffed because she got into a pissing match with the flight crew.

[Blackhatjack]

74. Many of the Grandmas are old enough to remember what it was like to live in a free country...

... and they are old enough to say exactly what they think.

[romulusnr]

83. "grandmas gone wild!" I love it

I think the Target story and the JetBlue story should be made into a forward we all send our grandmothers and any other grandmothers we know. I'm so tired of all the military Chicken Soup and preachy stuff i get in my inbox from my family, it'd be great to have something like this to send them.

[NoodleyAppendage]

84. SUE THE MUTHERF'N LIVING SH*T OUT OF JETBLUE.

The only thing the corporate overlords fear more than an empowered citizenry are vicious lawyers. Sick 'em, Grandma!!!

J