"It's time these idiot liberals understand . . ."

[proud2BlibKansan]

"if that is good enough for you you are smoking something illegal"

"If you guys would quit screwing it up . . . "

http://grassrootsamerica4us.org/

After you watch the video, check out this website. This is my friend Tina talking to Rep. Obey (D-WS)

As I've been walking the halls of congress these last few weeks, I have
been shocked at the arrogance, the finger shaking, and statements such
as Rep. Obey (D-WS), "It's time these idiot liberals understand...." Or Russ Carnahan's
chief-of-staff, "you can't trust those activists." As the mother of an
Iraq War Veteran who has seen what this war has done to her son, her
family and many others, I have become an activist and a liberal which
apparently is anyone working to end the war,

[MADem]

1. I think your friend Tina is an idiot. She's managed to paint us all with her

"Duuuhhhh, I don't get how the process works" mumblings, both on that video and on HARDBALL.

Heckuva job, Tina....why doesn't she have the stones to go confront Fat Denny Hastert? Ahhh, that's HARD...easier to go shoot our best messengers.

Tina would make me happy if she'd just take her TV appearance fee checks and go home. Help like that, we don't need.

[leftchick]

4. perhaps because denny is not speaker of the house?

and she was fantastic on hardball. Obey made a complete ass out of himself. It is no wonder he later apologized. It is the least he could do after that disgusting display.

:eyes:

[MADem]

13. No, but he supports the war. What, does "Tina" thiink the Speaker gets an extra vote or two?

It wouldn't surprise me, seeing as she knows so little about the legislative process.

She made an ass of herself on HARDBALL. Go tell her that, she needs to know it. She embarrassed the antiwar movement with her naivete and ramblings.

Obey apologized because he feels SORRY for her, because she's thick as a post. She might not want to lecture an experienced House legislator who was a key player in ending the VIETNAM war about how he should filibuster, for starters, in a body that doesn't filibuster. She might take the time to learn just a teeny, tiny bit about how the process works before she shoots off her mouth. She's a tool, a dumb one, too. And her cheerleaders are just as bad, no, worse, for encouraging her in her ignorance.

These tactics aren't helpful. They just cause the right to make assumptions about the rest of us who do know the score.

And tell her, while you're at it, to learn to count to two hundred and eighteen. The object of the exercise is to get those who are AGAINST the supplemental to change their vote, not to hector those who are already in favor of it.

:eyes: indeed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. And you need to learn to count to 3190

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/

What have you done to help end the war? Since you are so sure Tina is going about it in the wrong way, what are you doing that is more effective? I will be sure to forward your ideas to Tina.

[MADem]

23. You'll be counting to 58K if you keep this shit up.

My support remains with the Pelosis, Murthas and Obeys who understand how to count to 218. Not with disruptive assholes who make the rest of us look bad.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Oh good grief - it is disruptive to talk to a congressman

while he calls you an idiot liberal? How is that disruptive? WATCH THE VIDEO. The only one who needs to be ashamed by his behavior is that asshole Obey.

[MADem]

32. I have watched it, three or four times. Your ignorance of Obey's legislative

history is telling. And the ignorance of Tina as to how laws are made is astounding. Filibuster, indeed.

When will they start bugging the GOP? Answer: never. The Democrats at least listen, the GOP would have them dragged out by their heels for their disruptive shenanigans.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. They have been bugging the GOP!!!

You obviously know NOTHING about Tina or her work to end this war. Have you even written a letter asking for the war to end? I take it from your comments that it would be beneath you to participate in a protest. There are tens of thousands of us all over the country, many like Tina who have basically given up their lives for this cause. HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE THAT!!

When this illegal invasion finally ends, it will be because people like Tina (and many others, including lots of DUers) worked their butts off to end it. When our soldiers stop dying in Iraq, you will have Tina and Cindy Sheehan and many other brave Americans who don't care if you call them idiots - to THANK!

[MADem]

42. Where's the tape then? Why harass the guy who wrote the war-ending legislation?

Why hector PELOSI of all people? Why give MURTHA shit?

Show me some tape of her in Hastert's face, in Bonehead's face, in Blunt's face, eh? Why isn't there any of that good footage? I'll tell ya why--because they don't confront those guys. And until you show me some tape, it didn't happen. Because if it did, you know damn well they'd have footage of it.

This is what I know about Tina. She's IGNORANT. She doesn't know a thing about how bills are made into law. She is going after the wrong guys.

She should take her life back, and stop "helping." Because she isn't helping. She's making an ass of herself, and impugning liberals who THINK before they act in the process.

Heckuva job, Tina.

[evlbstrd]

51. The Pukes would never speak with her.

So it would have been impossible to tape.

[MADem]

59. Gee, why didn't they occupy a few GOP offices and tape that?

Why don't they accost GOP legislators in the halls? And tape THAT, when they run away??

Answer--they're chickenshits. They DON'T approach the GOP. They're afraid they'll be hauled out of there by Cap Police if they actually start hectoring anyone who DISAGREES with them.

Useless twits.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fooj]

83. I probably shouldn't poke my nose into this but...

IMO, NOBODY has the right to speak to someone that way. He is a US Congressman. He needs to behave appropriately. Suggesting that someone is "smoking something" is juvenile and unnecessary. What did that have to do with her questions? Seriously.

His "legislative history" has nothing to do with his lack of respectful dialogue. Just my 2 cents...

[MADem]

90. Do you know what these people have been doing?

They've been all over the Hill, harassing ANTIWAR legislators, going into their offices, disrupting the routine, chasing them in the halls, and acting like asses. You saw the tip of an iceberg with that video.

Obey isn't the only one they've hassled. They went after MURTHA and PELOSI too, those rightwing, prowar neocons....not.

But guess what? There's no video of them taking on prowar REPUBLICANS, and there likely won't be, because they won't preach to anyone but the already antiwar choir.

This is all about THEM. It isn't about ending the war, it's about ending the war the way they say it should be ended, when they say it should be ended--their plan, which has ZERO chance of getting proposed as legislation. They don't care that they don't know what they're talking about--it's all about GOTCHA, and they're "getting" antiwar representatives.

Obey's apology for getting short with them was more than they deserved.

They've done more for the pro-war GOP with their idiotic video than Rupert Murdoch and ten billion dollars could do with an orchestrated ad campaign.

[fooj]

94. I'm glad to hear that he apologized.

He did the right thing, IMO. I didn't realize there were so many "anti-war" people running around the halls of Congress badgering people. I appreciate you letting me know that.

[MADem]

99. Now, it would be nice if those ambushers would apologize to him, but I'm not holding my breath on

that score...

http://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2007/03/09/news/national/doc45f1662d71862527996360.txt

Organizers count more than 140 arrests so far. Most involve charges of trespassing or disorderly conduct.

During the occupations, the protesters sit, stand, sing, chant, pray, ring bells, and read letters from American troops sent home to their families.

The eight demonstrators at Emanuel’s office on Thursday performed skits about the consequences of war, read names of U.S. troops killed in Iraq and told stories about Iraqi children hurt in the fighting. They were welcomed by a staffer into the lobby of the congressman’s office.

Sometimes, though, the protesters don’t even get through the front door.

About 20 demonstrators gathered outside Pelosi’s San Francisco office on Wednesday. Before they could enter, a Pelosi staffer ushered the group down to a conference room seven floors below, where many voiced frustration that Pelosi was not being aggressive enough in seeking an end to the war.

The anti-war groups are setting their sights on Republicans, like McCain. But they’re also lining up against Democrats, like Pelosi, who were opposed to the war from the very beginning............

[Beelzebud]

5. Obey is an idiot for playing in to the whole "dope smokin liberals" bullshit.

Do you honestly think he handled himself well here?

Nevermind. You must. You've been kissing his ass all day here.

He was right in principle, but acted like a fucking asshole, and even used right-wing bullshit anit-liberal crap to boot.

[leftchick]

he did better than Delay could have ever hoped to in disparaging liberals

though I read he later apologized. Sort of.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. That comment really sent me over the edge

What a fucking asshole.

[leftchick]

10. total asshole

completely disconnected from the people he supposedly serves.

[MADem]

14. Only an idiot liberal would think that no liberals are idiots. They do exist.

Just like there are intelligent conservatives and mouth breathers.

I don't kiss Obey's ass. I defend him against ignoramuses, who by their very words, demonstrate that they don't understand the legislative process. And given that a shitload of so called liberals are actually so stupid that they voted that they "Oppposed Obey's position" (meaning they opposed his antiwar stance) in one of the polls here shows me that plenty of so-called liberals have no idea what they are talking about.

That kind of ignorance is unhelpful.

[Beelzebud]

17. Being an asshole is unhelpful. Using right-wing slurs against anti-war folks is unhelpful.

Obey did more harm to himself with his asshole behavior that this woman could have ever dreamed to. If he would have responded to her in a rational manner, this wouldn't even be a fucking big deal.

Why not just call her an idiot? Why qualify it with liberal idiot? why suggest that the two were 'smoking something not legal"?

[MADem]

20. Sorry. Obey's record speaks for itself. He's a genuine liberal.

An avowed antiwar liberal. Not a single issue, uninformed idiot liberal. And he's proven that since 1969. So forgive me if I side with someone who has worked for the cause, unceasingly, all these years.

The tactic of occupying offices of liberal antiwar representatives, chanting, making pests of themselves, and then illegally filming in the House offices (let's get some GOTCHA footage, because it's all about US, see?) is cheesy. When idiots, liberal or otherwise, do these sorts of things and then don't have a clue as to the process of turning legislation into law and presume to lecture people who do it for a living, someone has to hoist the bullshit flag.

That woman made no sense. She didn't know what she was talking about. She spouts liberal views, and she's an idiot. I say the shoe fits....bless her heart.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. She was walking in the hall and talked to him!

How is that occupying his office? How is talking to a congressman (who works for US, BTW) making a pest of herself?

You are so off base here I just can't believe it. Maybe you would be more comfortable living in a dictatorship where citizens have no access to their govt.

[MADem]

35. Haven't you been following what has been going on up on the Hill?

There's been a whole load of shooting the messenger going on. The only ones with any guts are the nuns, it seems: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/16862497.htm

This crew is shooting the wrong messenger.


http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obey-berates-woman-over-war-funding-later-apologizes-2007-03-09.html

“So many of these liberal groups don’t adequately inform their members. They don’t have the full story about what we’re trying to do and they wind up not being able to distinguish their friend from their enemy. These people won’t take yes for an answer.”

He said he and Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Reps. John Murtha (D-Pa.) have been spending “night and day” trying to figure out a way of the war in Iraq. Instead of trying to help them in the task, the members of liberal groups are viewing them as the enemy rather than their friends, Obey said.

“When you have misinformation or lack of information put into their head’s, it’s a disservice to them and to me,” Obey said. “I respect their views. But I would hope they would also respect mine and others on the Hill who are working so hard to find a way out of this.”

Obey’s proposed supplemental bill, entitled the “U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans’ Health and Iraq Accountability Act,” expands funding for veterans’ health care and hospitals and stipulates that the Bush administration must meet standards of troop readiness before deployment to Iraq. It also states that the Iraqi government must meet Bush’s benchmarks for reform in order for our troops to remain in the region. The legislation sets a deadline for complete withdrawal from Iraq by Sept. 8, 2008, but also states that troops would be withdrawn earlier if Iraqi government fails to satisfy Bush’s benchmarks.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. The passion of the peace activists inspires me

I find lots more to criticize in what Congress is (not) doing.

[MADem]

46. As a liberal who understands the legislative process, this PUNKING crew embarasses me. NT

[demrabble]

52. How Many More Should Die?

Just how many more American soliders and innocent Iraqi people do you think should die while the "legislative process" plays itself out?

Obey wants to vote FOR the supplemental -- he wants to give * the money * wants to continue to fund the war.

Doesn't that mean that more people will die?

Why isn't Obey pushing to cut off funds -- NOW!?

[MADem]

57. Jesus, you haven't even read the supplemental legislation, have you?

And cut the drama--that's what liberal IDIOTS do. "How many MOOOOOOORE should DIIIIIEEE?"

Oh gee, let me think--are three enough? Are six too many?

You get back to me when you learn how to count to 218...and that's AYE votes, not dead servicemembers.

Liberal idiots, indeed.

[Geek_Girl]

61. Obey may very well have been right. But he made an ass of himself

and may have even hurt his perfect polished "liberal image". I'd say he was the idiot today.

:eyes:

[MADem]

65. No, he didn't. The people who accosted our best hope for ending the war were the idiots.

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Congressman Dave Obey (D-WI) released the following statement today:
____________________________________________________________________

“Monday, a group of people, not my constituents, approached me as I was rushing to a meeting and we wound up having an argument.

“I am sorry that I yelled at them. I respect their passion on the issue; I wish they would respect mine. We are both frustrated, and that led us to have an argument that we never should have had because we both want to see an end to U.S. involvement in that war. What divided us was the question of how.

“When they were arguing that I should vote against the legislation that I am sponsoring, they did not know that the proposal would in fact give the House its first opportunity in the four years of this misguided war to vote on a timeline for bringing it to a close.

“I would hope that the president’s announced intention to veto that legislation because of the timeline would convince these folks to reconsider their opposition to it.

“This is just another example of how Americans have become needlessly and painfully divided on a war that I have opposed from the beginning and that the President should never have misled us into.

“I intend to continue to press forward to pass this legislation because it is the best chance we have to bring our involvement in that civil war to a conclusion.”

http://obey.house.gov/HoR/WI07/Newsroom/Press+Releases/StatementFromCongressmanObey.htm

[Usrename]

66. OK MADem, I'm a liberal idiot. Edumacate me, please.

Why don't we have 218 votes?

We have the majority, right?

And yet we don't have 218 votes.

THAT SEEMS LIKE A PROBLEM TO A LIBERAL IDIOT!!!

So, please explain why you insist that this is not a problem?

Do you support the Dems in Congress that are for the Bush agenda?

Don't you think that if the DLC were anti-war that we could get to 218 easily?

How do you suggest we fix this?

It seems that there are just two options:

either replace the pro-Bush Representatives or change their minds somehow.

[MADem]

70. Yeah, maybe the liberal idiots oughta go bug the representatives

who won't vote aye on the supplemental, instead of hectoring the ones that are already onboard. And hectoring the AUTHOR of the thing, to boot.

What kind of idiot, liberal or otherwise, thinks that having the majority ensures aye votes? Do you think Nancy Pelosi can snap her fingers, or David Obey can wave his magic wand? Only an idiot would think such a thing.

Why aren't those LIBERAL IDIOTS going after those "Dems in Congress that are for the Bush agenda" as you so quaintly put it? Why aren't they, better yet, going after the GOP?

Here's how we "fix" it. We let Obey and crew get on with working out the kinks to get this supplemental to a vote, and passed.

Again, you have no clue what he trying to accomplish, and your nonsensical post which suggests that David Obey, an antiwar liberal, is "for the Bush agenda" proves it.

Do some frigging research before you shoot off your mouth.

[Usrename]

119. Everything's fine, no worries.

Sure, whatever you say!

Just shut up and enjoy the train wreck.

[Taoschick]

115. She could have contacted his office

And arranged a meeting.

Seriously, "ambushing" a congressman (especially when you're not even a constituent) and expecting him/her to hold a conversation with you and explain the intricacies of a specific piece of legislation or requiring an in depth lesson in finessing legislation that isn't receiving majority support in the hallway outside their office isn't a very good idea. Most congressmen aren't just sitting around all day waiting to see what the day will bring. They've got pretty tight schedules and an impromptu lesson in government in a hallway isn't going to be received well. Yes, Rep. Obey was rude to her and the other gentlemen. They were also rude.

[Tin Man]

29. Word.

I'd say you nailed it. Good post.

[Beelzebud]

38. I never said he wasn't a liberal, and I never said he was wrong.

I just said he acted like an asshole, which he did.

[fooj]

85. Yes. He's a genuine liberal. So?

What does that have to do with anything? He's a US Congressman. He should behave appropriately. How about behaving in a rational manner? WTF does smoking weed have to do with cutting off funding for the troops? Personally, I don't care how good this guy's voting record is. That's not the issue. Nobody is questioning that, are they? What I question is his sense of judgement. Doesn't the good congressman think before he speaks? :shrug:

[MADem]

91. Did you bother to read what I wrote?

Do you understand what is going on up on the Hill? These bozos are hassling the wrong people. They're staging sit-ins in ANTIWAR offices. Chanting, behaving like jerks.

Pelosi, Murtha and Obey are staunchly AGAINST the war. They got the full treatment from these fools.

Why don't they try to influence the pro-war types? Because they're chickenshits. They know they'd have to endure arrest, maybe some handcuffing, a little inconvenience.

They abuse those who share their agenda, who won't have them hauled out of there, and who have a better idea than they do as to how to accomplish that agenda legislatively. Real brave of them. And then they throw the video up on the web. The GOP is overjoyed. They couldn't have done a better job of helping them out if they'd been paid to do it.

And of course, they don't have the guts to go after the GOP. Where's the film of them chasing after Boehner, telling HIM to end the war? You won't find it anywhere, because they won't go after him, will they?

They're screaming at people who want to end the war. And they don't even know what they are talking about--by their words, they demonstrated an ignorance of the process, so they're wasting the time of a very busy man who DOES know how things work, and who is hard at work looking, along with the rest of the House leadership, for two hundred and eighteen votes.

It's a classless thing to do. And they guaranteed that no other legislator will be giving them the time of day in the hallways with their childish tactics.

[fooj]

95. I just read it.

:hi:

[Cha]

53. You're right..obey acted

like a fucking idiot. :silly:

[mikelgb]

6. A representative should not speak to anyone like that.

disgrace

[MADem]

24. Yeah, disgrace, all right--occupying the offices of those legislators who support

an end to the war, hectoring them, and wasting their time talking nonsense that demonstrates they don't understand how a bill becomes law.

But hey, because they pester people who are already antiwar, they're heroes? Gimme a break.

[leftchick]

121. she wasn't "occupying the offices"

sheesh talk about drama. She merely, politely asked him a few questions in the hallway. Did you even watch the video? He is the one that acted like a fucking rabid dog. He should send her flowers in addition to the apology.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. She doesn't get paid for being on TV

and she has basically given up her life to stay in DC and work to end the war. She is an awesome woman. I can't even describe how much I respect her. Did you watch the video? She was very calm and respectful while this congressman was an asshole.

As soon as you sacrifice as much as she has for a cause you can criticize her.

If this war ever ends, it will be because of women like Tina Richards and Cindy Sheehan.

[MADem]

45. Her check is in the mail. Tell her to stop sacrificing. Tell her to go home.

She isn't helping.

If this war ends, it will be because of legislators like OBEY, who wrote the war ending legislation.

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. I will tell her you sent her a donation

Cause that's the only way she is getting a check.

[Cha]

55. Thank Tina for staying where she

is, please!

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. I will!!

[demrabble]

48. Doesn't Tina Have a Son in Iraq?

Doesn't Tina have a son in Iraq?

Does Obey?

[evlbstrd]

49. She collects no fees.

She's fighting to keep her son home. She's putting pressure on the reps we elected.

[MADem]

71. No she isn't. She's hassling ANTIWAR legislators. She's making GOTCHA videos, and

smugly posting them on the internet.

She couldn't do better if she was getting a check from Rove, frankly.

[kiteinthewind]

50. Fuck that. How dare you. Do you have a fucking son in Iraq?

You are unfuckingbelievable. I know this woman and she is bright and knowledgeable and she has been working her ass off up there for WEEKS lobbying and talking to these pinheads. She is absolutely right to pressure. These fuckers are working for US. Have you forgotten that? Playing nice-nice isn't working. Hasn't worked for over 4 years. Damn straight she is badgering. Bless her for doing that. What have YOU done besides talk? You been up there hitting the pavement, talking to reps/senators? The Dems are making excuses instead of standing up and doing what is necessary.
An personally, Tina is not the idiot. An idiot just attacked her.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[MADem]

67. Oh, I see. Only people with a 'fucking son' in Iraq have a voice.

Right oh, then. The rest of us liberals who have been to Iraq, have daughters or spouses there, or simply who want to end the war had best just shut up, because only idiots who don't research before they shoot their mouths off have credence with you.

One more time--tell your friend to stop helping, because she isn't helping. She's making an ass of herself, and showing herself to be ignorant of the legislative process. Additionally, she is attacking the best hope for actually getting the process to end this war started. That's not smart. That's stupid.

You're quite the piece of work, aren't you?

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. You'll have to forgive kite

Her son's friend was just killed in Iraq this week. She's grieving.

[MADem]

75. Hmmmm...."bless her heart," I guess. NT

[proud2BlibKansan]

107. I know she would offer her heart to you if you were in her shoes

even though you are being an ass to her here.

[MADem]

116. Look, I am giving my honest perspective, and she's the one behaving like an

ass with profanity and personal insults, to say nothing of following me around the board and making sniping comments.

Fortunately, though, she's atlong last put me on ignore, so my opinions won't upset her delicate, longshoreman-like sensibilities. I'm overjoyed.

[Donnachaidh]

129. nice way to grieve -- attack other people working to get the war stopped.

THAT will aid the cause. NOT.

[kiteinthewind]

72. Go back to your Obey worship. That's certainly 'helping'. 3190. How many more?

:spank:

[MADem]

73. Like I said, you'll be talking 58K if you don't get 218. Math challenged, are you? NT

[kiteinthewind]

77. 3190. How many more? Again, why aren't you up in D.C. with all your 'expertise'? Answer:

Because it is much easier for you to sit at your keyboard and give all your expert advice. Tina, she is up there walking the walk.
WALK!
:spank:
Oh, by the way, math is not my strong suit, but have a fucking spine and put it out there. Let them put themselves on record where they stand. Don't sit there and count votes and make excuses. Have a fucking spine.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftchick]

122. well said!

:applause:

[bread_and_roses]

78. People "ignorant of the legislative process" have a voice too

Most americans don't understand the legislative process. In my rather extensive door-to-door- and phone experience, I'd say many don't even understand the difference between local/state/federal. So they should be silent? They have no right to speak? They know what a war is, though, and they know what peace is.

And out here outside Washington, where the arcane rules of moving legislation are not very well understood, there is frustration. I think it is good for reps to be reminded of that.

I didn't see the clip. Nor have I followed Obey - he's not my rep. I will believe that he is all that you say he is. The apology you posted souunded sinceere, and was more than the usual meaningless "I didn't mean to say it." He acknowleged his own frustration and anger, which sounded honest. He should not have called any constituent an idiot of any sort, and it sounds like he realizes that.

His use of "liberal" with the general/plural "you" as an adjective to "idiot" is more troubling, for a multitude of reasons, which I don't think I need to spell out here.

[MADem]

86. They certainly do. But if you are going to challenge a legislator on his legislation OR his tactics

you had better have a frigging CLUE about how the game is played. Anything else is sheer stupidity and hubris. Obey is one of the guys who ended the Vietnam War. He's sharp, he's shrewd--it is why he has Appropriations, because he is a savvy guy who knows how to play the game and move legislation successfully.

Frankly, David Obey is one of the more liberal legislators in DC. He's got a TED KENNEDY/WELLSTONE quality working for him, if that gives you a reference point.

And I have to agree with him on the "liberal idiot" point, notwithstanding his apology. We're all too eager to mock the mouth-breathing Freepers, but we're disingenuous if we actually try to claim that we too don't have MORONS amongst our own as well. I know a few people who view politics as a contact sport, a team endeavor whose sole purpose is to crush opponents (and to hell with debate or discussion), and those who aren't sufficiently to the left get all sort of crap. It has little to do with ideology, and more to do with pack mentality. It isn't attractive when positions are spouted from ignorance, even when the spouter is agreeing with one's point of view.



You can get a sense of Rep. Obey's politics by perusing this site: http://www.ontheissues.org/House/David_Obey.htm

[bread_and_roses]

120. Missing the point entirely.

And I already said that I took your word about Obey. No, you don't have to have a "clue" about the process to speak your piece, or challenge the legislator. One has that right as a citizen.

And yes, "we" have unintellegent, unattractive, unpleasant behaving persons among "us." Among millions, it's inevitable. That's not the point, as Obey seems to have realized with his apology, which seems to show more awareness than you do of inappropriateness.

And I still find his use of the word "liberal" in this context disturbing.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Idiot liberals? Gee, thanks. Some people need to get voted out

and replaced by some progressive thinkers.

[BlueManDude]

19. Dave Obey IS a liberal. The Democrats cannot unilaterally end the war.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. He is an idiot and an asshole

I could give a shit how "liberal" anyone claims he is. He behaved like a war mongering conservative when he talked to this mother.

[BlueManDude]

54. He's not an idiot

You can take issue with his style (he's obviously frustrated and hates the war as much as you or me or that woman does) but he's not stupid and he's certainly not a "war mongering conservative."

He lost his temper yes - but he spoke to that woman and explained the realities of the situation. Obey is not her enemy and he has opposed the war from the beginning. He's not the president of the United States - he can't bring the troups home with a wave of his magic wand.

[FiveGoodMen]

26. So he was calling himself an idiot?

[demrabble]

56. Why Not?

Why can't Democrats unilaterally end the war?

It seems to me that a vote to end funding of the war -- NOW -- instead of voting for MORE funding of the war would go a LONG way towards ending this terrible mistake of a war.

Cutting off funding NOW would save the lives of American soldiers and would save the lives of innocent Iraqi people.

And yet, Obey and others seem to want us to believe that the way to end the war is to vote FOR MORE FUNDING.

WTF??

[leftchick]

3. Just like Cindy

Tina Speaks for Me!

:yourock: Tina!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Tina is a good friend of Cindy's

I am so inspired by both of them.

[leftchick]

11. well that makes perfect sense

no wonder I loved them both immediately! Thank you for the info. :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Here is her son Cloy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18QOjXgLM_E

[leftchick]

18. thank you

Obey needs to see this. Perhaps he would grow a heart.

[Gregorian]

12. Here's what I think.

We see two members of opposing parties. They both are forced into the same corner by Bush's war. And I think Obey is also forced into working with the system, which is complicated. And that he's also full of his own spin. Obviously Congress works in mysterious ways. All we ask is to stop the war.

[Donnachaidh]

22. your friend did a heckuva hatchet job on one of the GOOD guys

Tell me -- is she and that group she is with understand that the logjam on stopping this war is in the SENATE?

Obey is one of the white hats.

Before this group decides to play at activism again perhaps they need to do some RESEARCH in exactly WHO it is that is backing this war, and who is trying to stop it?

What *they* did was a CONTEMPTIBLE act worthy of Fox News. Your friend and that group shouldn't be patting themselves on the back for *punking* someone who is a Democrat with a LONG history of trying to bring both OVERSIGHT and SANITY back to Congress.

They should be hanging their heads in SHAME. They've SHAMED everyone who is against this war.

And they owe Representative Obey a PUBLIC APOLOGY. But of course, that won't get them face time on MSNBC, so we shouldn't expect THAT too soon. :sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Since when is it not okay to talk to a congressman?

The only one who should be ashamed is this asshole elected official who was so rude to Tina.

[Donnachaidh]

31. And this CHILDISH little videotape is an activist's *punk*?

Spare the rest of us the Ashton-Kutcher wannabee mindset and do your damned HOMEWORK the next time.

Go after the ones in the SENATE that are pushing for this war.

Or is that too difficult for you *culture warriors* to do? :sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Sorry you apparently thinks it is okay for a US congressman to call a citizen

an idiot.

And sorry you can't discuss this without being insulting.

And you know what, sweetheart? I HAVE done my homework. What the fuck have you done to end the war? Keyboard commando duties don't count.

[Donnachaidh]

36. oh yeah, you did your homework

And you went after the WRONG GUY!!!!

DUH!

You should be soooooo proud of yourself! Really! You've managed in one day to EMBARRASS any activist that actually knows the DIFFERENCE between a Senator and a CONGRESSMAN!

Your friends and their groups are publicity seeking punks without a clue.

Congrats on THAT. Really.

:puke:

[saracat]

63. Why doesn't Tina have an obligation to know what she is talking about

before she wastes a congressman's time.He explained why she was wrong and she just doesn't get it! David Obey wrote the legislation that ended Vietnem and he is trying to end this war and well intentioned as she may be , you friend is stupid.She should at least become informed!

[kiteinthewind]

60. Fuck that, too. She doesn't owe ANYONE an apology. The arrogance in this thread

is nauseating. So many fucking 'experts' about how to stop this war. Well if you are so fucking knowledgeable, why aren't you fucking in D.C. doing your part? You people make me sick.
:puke:

[MADem]

87. You people, eh? You are profoundly rude and crude. Get over yourself.

Not everyone agrees with you, and shouting, trotting out puking icons, insulting people and swearing isn't going to change hearts and minds. It only reflects poorly on your ability to discuss an issue in civil fashion, and it certainly makes other, surely unintentional but rather unflattering, points as well.

You demonstrate profound immaturity....and you just might want to take a little break.

[kiteinthewind]

97. MADem, counseling on the proprieties of handling legislation as if you are an expert and anyone

who doesn't know blah, blah, blah is not worthy of the time of our Representatives shows your elite colours. I am not looking to change your mind. And how about the pot calling the kettle black? Your 'insult' of my friend, multiple times and in multiple terms, is just exactly why I posted a reply to you, so check that log in your eye.
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[MADem]

100. Thanks for proving my point. Heckuva job, there. NT

[Donnachaidh]

124. the STUPIDITY in this thread is FRIGHTENING

Yeah -- as long as you own a videocamera you are an *snort* ACTIVIST. I'll bet you were the kiddies whose parents never told you making MISTAKES was a bad thing!

The MTV generation and a camera -- still as clueless as ever.

Next time the place to go is the SENATE. S-E-N-A-T-E.

We'll even show you a site to get a MAP. But the Clue is something you obviously may want to get someone ELSE to find for your *snicker* GROUP.

I wish DU had a *point and LAUGH* icon. It's soooo grassroots. :sarcasm:

[katsy]

30. FWIW...

Just my opinion but, embarassing Obey publicly was wrong.

Obey's remarks, likewise, were wrong.

2 wrongs now equal a media circus that is embarassing to the Democratic party.

I would have more sympathy for this woman if it didn't feel as though she was setting Obey up for public embarassment. How did a camera come to record all this?

I'd have for more sympathy for Obey if he hadn't used a disparaging rw characterization of liberals. That was way out of line. And he should have been more respectful of this woman EVEN if it meant sitting her down (then or at another appointed time) and educating her on the legislative process. She deserves no less IMO. And he didn't deserve to be embarassed.

I'm sorry for Obey's frustration. I'm sorry for this woman's pain.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. He embarrassed himself by what he said.

[Donnachaidh]

39. and your friend took it nationwide --

Congrats on that Hardball interview. Get an agent yet? :sarcasm:

[katsy]

43. Can't disagree with that.

Wish it wasn't on youTube though.

Just my opinion. I can see the frustration on both sides here.

[leftchick]

76. Obey embarrassed himself

no help needed! He swore several times to the mother of a marine and accused her of being a dope smoking idiot liberal. WTF? How in the hell is that excusable for a so called DEMOCRATIC Representative? It is fucking shameful and an embarrassment to the party.

:puke:

[Donnachaidh]

128. and the group SECRETLY taping him took it nationwide

Pardon me if I think what that group did was IMMATURE and despicable.

I cannot feel sorry for a woman who allowed herself to be USED, and then went right along with embarrassing a man who HAS been working to stop the war.

She was stupid, the group was IGNORANT and mean-spirited. I wonder if grassroots is REALLY a Democratic group at all? Perhaps people should start looking into THEIR backgrounds, and start following THEM around with cameras. Youtube has plenty of room for more videos.

What they did was worthy of the freeper shock troops. They are an EMBARRASSMENT to all Democratic activists.

[LSK]

41. ask your friend how many votes are needed for CLOTURE in the Senate

[bullimiami]

44. OK I watched it and Im offended. People say whats in their heads.

Especially when they are drunk or angry.

Mel rails at jews.
Kramer takes a swing at "niggers".
Obey kicks idiot liberals.

He owes a serious apology, firstly.
If he were my congressman I would be working against him in the next primary.

He is an arrogant ass. He did not want to speak to her. He was trying to brush her off and get away. He was pissed and his first reaction is to blame it on 'idiot liberals.

I agree with her. HE is wrong. Throwing fuel on a fire doesnt extinguish it. Bush cant run a war without money and its the only power they truly have.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. Awwwwww...a poor politician got offended by a constituent questions.

Somebody should remind the congressman that he's a representative not a boss.

[Cha]

58. Looks like obey caught a touch of

bushfuckingitis.

[MADem]

74. She is not a constituent of Rep. Obey's.

But let's not let facts get in the way of this worship of an idiot who accosts an antiwar congressman.

[kiteinthewind]

80. Are the M.I.C./corporate whore/lobbyists constituents of all the congressmen they lobby? Just

wondering, since you are the fucking expert on everything Obey and Beyond!
:sarcasm:

[MADem]

89. Keep it up. You're doing a heckuva job there.

When you post the video of your good pal giving it to a GOP legislator, then I'll give you an iota of credence. Until then, I will regard both you and Tina as ineffectual and ignorant shills for legislative pipe dreams. Or to put it more simply, attention seeking cranks.

If you really wanted this war to end, you wouldn't shoot the antiwar messengers. If, however, you wanted to make this "All about YOU" you'd do exactly what you're doing.

[kiteinthewind]

92. Tina HAS been taking on GOP Congressman. No, I don't have a video tape. Again, exactly when were you

actually in the Capitol lobbying? Not just in D.C., but walking from office to office, sitting in hearings, talking to everyone you can get in the door to, for 5 or 6 weeks, and NOT getting paid to do it? When was the last time you did that?
:dunce:

[MADem]

96. What she was doing isn't "lobbying." It's closer to "annoying antiwar legislators"

and playing a childish Gotcha game. It's also breaking House rules with that shitty, surreptitious videotaping.

And the YouTube posting...priceless. Way to 'advance' the 'antiwar agenda.' Not.

Again, until I see the tape of her challenging Boehner, it didn't happen. And we won't see that tape, will we? Because that crowd lacks the intestinal fortitude to go up against anyone who actually opposes withdrawal. Naaah, they go after Pelosi, Murtha, Obey...all the liberal peaceniks. Heckuva job, Tina.

I don't waste my time pestering antiwar legislators. See, I have the intelligence to understand that they are going to vote to END the war without my "interference." It's something Tina might want to comprehend if she wants to continue with her ill-advised "hallway theater"...

[kiteinthewind]

98. So, the answer is 'No'? You haven't spent 5 or 6 weeks of your time to do what your heart tells you

is right. Is that correct?

[MADem]

101. My heart doesn't tell me to go beat up legislators who want to end the war.

That would make me a REPUBLICAN operative.

[kiteinthewind]

102. No, you just beat up moms who are passionate because they have a child in this immoral war. Nice. nt

[MADem]

103. Oh, get over yourself. Your friend made an IDIOT of herself. She didn't "help" the cause.

No matter how much you swear, are rude, and use that puke icon OR that headbanging one. Nice, indeed.

[kiteinthewind]

104. Arrogance is my least favorite 'quality' in a person. Officially on "Ignore".

[MADem]

105. Thank CHRIST!!! You've made my day!!!!!!!! That's a gift that keeps on giving!!! NT

[leftchick]

123. LOL!

the ONLY person who made an idiot of themselves was Obey. No make that an ASS of themselves. I can not believe I used to respect him either. That video was very illuminating for many of us.

[sammythecat]

109. If MADem was "actually in the Capitol lobbying"

would her points then be true and yours false? I'm sure war wounded Vets can be found in Iraq who would vote for bush for a third term if they could. Would you then drop your antiwar stance because they "walked the walk" more than you could? If someone is without the means or opportunity to be an effective activist does, that disqualify them from any valid argument?

Whether or not MADem was ever in Washington does not add or subtract one atom from the validity or invalidity of her argument. That Tina has a son in Iraq does not enhance the logic of her argument or her tactics.

Knowing nothing of Tina or Obey, my first impression of the video was that Obey lost his composure and Tina and her friend seemed very bush-league. To have made the effort to get as far as they did and not know that the House doesn't filibuster was as much a shock as Obey calling them "liberal idiots" even though it may have been entirely accurate. As said earlier, there is such a thing as a liberal idiot. They do exist. I imagine you think MADem is one and vice-versa.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

113. She's a citizen with a grievance. But, let's not get in the way of the constitution.

An "anti-war" congressman voting for more money for the slaughter.

[proud2BlibKansan]

125. Bingo! We have a winner folks!

You are dead on correct. Best comment in the thread.

But don't forget he's a liberal. He calls other liberals idiots but he's a liberal and we need to bow down and worship him for being a liberal. :sarcasm:

[smoogatz]

62. There is no such place as WS. There's WI and WA, but no WS. nt

[w4rma]

64. I watched the video and Obey is exactly right, except that he got frustrated. (nt)

[PaDem]

79. This confrontation is just such a shame..........

Obey is one of the good guys in congress, and this is years of frustration manifesting itself. It's unfortunate that this conversation turned ugly in the way that it did. Sadly, Obey is right. There is no good way to deal with the situation in Iraq. It's a disaster if we leave, and a disaster if we stay, and right now Obey's party is limited in what it can do. This war beats me down every day, as I'm sure it does millions of other Americans. My heart goes out to all those who have either lost loved ones or had loved ones return maimed or psychologically unstable. The decision to go to war was one of the tragic decisions in American history, and my party was more than complicit in the whole thing. Obey was one of the relative few who stood up and spoke truth to power about this war before it was too late. It's now too late.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

84. Honestly, I think Obey was projecting his own frustration.

He is STUCK within the cage of political operations and passionately wants exactly what those anti-war advocates seek. I believe he felt unappreciated and frustrated and expressed those frustrations to those folks pressing him to do more.

In my perspective, I saw something akin to a 'family' having a sruggle with a common problem and how to work through it. I didn't like his comment about "you idiot liberals" but understand it because HE HAS TO WORK WITHIN THE SYSTEM/RULES/GAME OF CONGRESS.

Moreover, quite frankly, there are "IDIOT LIBERALS" who seem to believe any 'representative' can be tyrannical enough to overcome tyranny. *shaking head*. I appreciate the passion because I am not only familiar but a part and piece of it. Nevertheless, life isn't what we want,...it is as it is and we have to cope with it.

Obey is coping with a pure heart. None of us are purer just 'cause we tend to object to life as it is.

So, cut Obey a break. He has been persistent and trustworthy on his pro-humanitarian and anti-aggressive war and pro-populist stands for years.

The only beneficiary of attacking Obey is the RW.

[Oeditpus Rex]

88. Looked to me like she got an education

Painful though it may have been.

I hope she puts it to use.

[MADem]

93. If her clueless performance on HARDBALL is any indication

it hasn't quite sunk in yet.

Hopefully she'll study the tape and maybe relearn the "Only a Bill" song. It will help her understand the process.

[Colobo]

106. I'm on Obey's side here, but...

I feel he should have been way more polite with this lady than he was.

[Hidden Stillness]

111. Many "Activists" are Harrassing, Uninformed Idiots--Face the Fact

I have been off the internet for a few days and have not heard about this story, and since I have dial-up, I cannot get these video things to work right, (although it is just so incredibly classy to surreptitiously record someone, bait them, then post it for all the world, like a Republican operatve or a "D"LC; Bush unauthorized spying=bad, anti-war idiot spying="good," suddenly), so I have only been reading these threads on DU. Apart from being shocked at how stupid many DUers are about David Obey, a great progressive of the Wisconsin Robert LaFollette type, it just reconfirms for me that there are few things as vicious as an anti-war idiot.

"Idiot liberals"? How about the asshole DUers who actually post messages that they believe that Pres. Lyndon Johnson was involved in the murder of Pres. Kennedy, as I have read? How about the assholes who attack the great Pres. Franklin Roosevelt for the Army directive to imprison Japanese citizens during World War II, (as Japan did to Americans and Canadians), yet do not know a fucking thing about the New Deal, and will never bother to learn? There are stupid DUers who believe that Kennedy escalated the Vietnam war, when actually Kennedy fought against and was overruled by the Defense Dept. and the Generals. There are actually even stupid, woman-hating DUers; I'm shocked, shocked. There are many highly offensive things posted by people who do not go to any effort to learn anything; they are called "idiots."

I remember a couple of years ago, when a group of assholes interrupted an event where Representative Nancy Pelosi was, before she was Speaker, and broke it up, yelled and heckled, etc., and which Republican C-Span gleefully replayed over and over for a while. It was one of the stupidest, most pointless exercises I had ever heard, and as has been mentioned, these "idiots" never have the guts to interrupt a Cheney event, for example.

Obey, as I gathered from the "Hill" story, was getting exasperated at the fact that the person claiming to be the mother of a Marine was accusing and attacking, with not the slightest knowledge of what was in the supplemental bill, anything about the situation of the number of votes needed as opposed to the number currently considered secure, etc. It must be draining to listen to screaming and yelling of the stupidest, most self-absorbed kind--all "good" anti-war protesters are ready and loaded with "baby-killer," "how many more have to die before you...(whatever)," etc.--and no listening, no reading, at all. They are suffering saints (the only ones), and you are personally responsible for death--end of discussion.

Obey has been bravely fighting Republicans on the floor of the House for years; interesting how this should suddenly come up after they had their "Macaca" video-internet thing. Of course, anti-war protesters are just like Republicans and "D"LC: they attack Democrats, not Republicans, and only their issue is important. Poverty, job loss, no health care, crime--later for you. They don't even care how Government works, or that there is anyone else, with any other concern about anything.

Maybe the single-issue anti-war types can just threaten to leave the Democratic Party and vote for a third-Party candidate...again...

[Jonathan50]

112. Rant much?

There are stupid DUers who believe that Kennedy escalated the Vietnam war, when actually Kennedy fought against and was overruled by the Defense Dept. and the Generals.

As we have seen with Bush, the SecDef and the generals serve at the pleasure of the president.

Please don't insult what miniscule intelligence we have by claiming that a president was "overruled" by those who serve at his pleasure.

[Hidden Stillness]

114. "Rant Much?"--Oh, That was so Funny

So then I take it you were completely ignorant of the Kennedy tapes, as played at the "Vietnam and the Presidency" forum at the Kennedy Library and played on C-Span some months ago. Kennedy was against it, and McNamara pushed it, along with the State Dept., oddly, and the military. Kennedy, against it, made arguments during a meeting, and most of the others at this meeting supported it--after the war had been started by Eisenhower--and they assured Kennedy it would end it quickly to escalate it; it did not. Kennedy was against it, but the "majority ruled," as Kennedy usually decided things, after listening to all opinions of Cabinet members and others. If you are ignorant of the way an event happened, don't just give some generalized reply as if that "answered" it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

117. "President Kennedy increased America's troop number from 500 to 16,000."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

The proof is in the pudding.

[Jonathan50]

118. I've been in the military and I know how the command structure works.

Kennedy fought against and was overruled by the Defense Dept. and the Generals.

Kennedy was against it, but the "majority ruled," as Kennedy usually decided things, after listening to all opinions of Cabinet members and others.

So Kennedy decided to go along with his advisors, that's not the same thing as being "overruled".

[Beelzebud]

126. Obey wouldn't have his majority if it weren't for "Idiot Liberals".

Remind me why 3rd party options are bad.

[kiteinthewind]

127. For all the "Tina Bashers" nt

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=382789&mesg_id=383615

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

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