Freaky Fundies blame "socialist" public schools on low US education rank among industrial nations...

[marmar]

...... but neglect to mention that many of the countries ranked ahead of it are socialist or semi-socialist societies.

:dunce:




From the American Family Association's OneNewsNow:



Is public school a socialist institution?
Charlie Butts - OneNewsNow - 8/13/2008 7:30:00 AM


The Friedman Foundation has a new co-chair of the board who is an expert on education.

Dr. Patrick Byrne contends the public education system is failing America's youth. "And where it's going wrong is that our government is running the school system, and we're getting socialist-style results," Byrne explains.

America now ranks about 25th among the top 30 industrialized nations. Organizations like the National Education Association keep clamoring for more money, but Byrne contends that is not the answer. Public education already costs about $10,000 per year per student, while most private schools are about $4,800.

"There are elite private schools, I suppose, that are eight times that I'm sure; but in general they're not as expensive as people think," Byrne adds. "In fact, their cost is about half the cost of public schools, but the public schools just want to be shielded from that kind of competition."

The Friedman Foundation does not take a stand on what will fix the problem, but Byrne suggests vouchers, charter schools, and tuition tax credits are part of the answer in that it returns the decision-making process to the parents. He believes public schools need the competition.


http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=210458 (The link from DU WILL get Rick-rolled, so if it happens, you can access the story from the AFA's homepage at www.afa.net and scroll down to the OneNewsNow area)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

1. MOST private schools are $4800? ONLY if they're subsidized by a church

Typical right-winger, leaving out that fact. Church-related schools also pay less than public schools and typically attract parents who want their kids to have a religious education and reinforce the school's behavioral and academic standards instead of fighting them.

I know someone who looked into enrolling her daughter in Blake School, Al Franken's alma mater and one of the two most elite private schools in the Twin Cities. It now costs as much as a year at college.

Oh, and by the way: Those Japanese and Finnish and other foreign schools that out-perform the U.S.?

They're overwhelmingly PUBLIC schools.

If your culture says that shopping and fashions and pop music and movies made up entirely of special effects are more important than studying, you're going to end up with a nation of ignorant people. Kind of like the U.S.

[patrice]

2. On an average, I'd say it's something like 70:30, Parents:School to blame.

Historically, how did anyone get educated when schools were a lot less than they are now? The Parents had relationships with their children such that the importance of and respect for learning was communicated, so Youth learned in spite of less than stellar conditions.

Parents don't respect the intrinsic value of Education now, only for its means to make a buck. Parents also take financial advantage of their teenagers and call it "tough love" and "learning financial responsibility" by allowing the kids to work and to pay for everything except perhaps the roof over their heads and some food. So junior or missy is driving around late model tricked-out cars and mom and dad are looking good to the neighbors, but the kids can't concentrate or stay awake in class because their working too much to be a good student.

Yeah, there're some bad teachers around and schools aren't run right, but IF an individual actually WANTS his/her education more than anything else, short of rioting in the school halls, s/he'll get her/his education. They DON'T want learning more than anything else, because their parents DON'T and they can't manage their own kids.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. A retired high schoolteacher of my acquaintance told of having this conversation repeatedly:

Teacher: Your son/daughter falls asleep in class.

Parent: That's because s/he works at McDonald's from 4PM to midnight.

Teacher: Why is s/he doing that? Is your family having financial problems?

Parent: No, but we agreed that s/he would pay for his/her own car expenses and concert tickets.

Teacher: But why does s/he need a car?

Parent: S/he has to get to his/her job!

In all the years my acquaintance taught, the parents never recognized this as circular reasoning.

I also recall seeing a newspaper story in the 1980s about a high school athlete who played football and basketball and worked six hours a day at some fast food job. The interviewer asked him when he studied. He replied that he "looked at his books" during lunch.

[patrice]

6. The schools ARE messed up too. I researched grade-inflation for my Masters.

Today's B was a C a couple of decades ago. Cs used to be Ds & Fs.

Teaching is sooooooo political. Parents and administrators put all kinds of pressure on Teachers. That's the Parents' fault for doing that and the Teachers' fault for giving in.

You try to take a stand for standards and you get all kinds of crap about "There are no failures except the teacher's failure to provide the curriculum that makes success possible."

The worst of it is that no content has value in and of itself. The ONLY justification for learning and knowing stuff is what parents and their kids deem "Useful", read that M - O - N - E - Y.

[OmahaBlueDog]

12. You should study the effect of the FCATS on Florida schools

Basic idea: everyont takes standardized tests. Kids who fail can't advance. Schools are graded A-F. If substandard schools don't improve, kids can take vouchers and leave. "F" schools that don't improve get closed. "A" schools get financial bonuses.

Then the law of unintended consequences kicks in: FCAT scores also impact property values. Now there is intense pressure put on schools to keep grades high on an aggregate level.

Result: The schools teach to the test rather than use the test to measure the effectiveness of curriculum. Test scores rise, but as far as I can see, what's happened is that kids are being effectively taught how to take standardized tests. Meanwhile, programs like elementary school music have been cut to the bone or eliminated. Schools in low income neighborhoods sruggle to get their share of funding because social issues (such as high %s of kids not knowing any English) cause academic shortfalls on the standardized tests.


The screwed up school situation was a big factor for my family in fleeing Florida to the Midwest.

[patrice]

13. Oh yes! I forgot to mention that. All anyone EVER wanted to know was "Is this on the test?"

And that wasn't even in a standardized test situation.

And these are the people who will be making decisions about our "happy golden years" :sarcasm:

[Fearless]

4. When the government forces through curriculum like...

NCLB, creationism, prayer in public schools, and abstinence only programs, who would've thought that we'd be circling the drain. Oh, and isn't that convenient, they're conservative and compromised programs.

[AlCzervik]

5. $4800, bullshit and i know because i do pay tuition.

[OmahaBlueDog]

11. This is "figures don't lie but liars can figure"

I can show you a bunch of schools with K-3 down in about that price range. That's not counting the additional "contributions" or volunteering you'll have to do on top of that, the books of $50/ticket raffle tickets you'll have to sell, etc. Once you get to 3rd or 4th grade (on the price lists I've seen, anyway), those prices pretty much leave the station, and get much more like $8-12K -- and, of course, I've seen higher prices.

I've also seen some despicable practices to justify those prices. When I lived in South Florida, there was a Private (religious) School in an upscale part of Broward County with a really good reputation. We were thinking about it for our older daughter. I asked around, and found out that kids who fell below a "B" average were told to go elsewhere. It's easy to brag about excellence in education when you throw the struggling students out.

[opiate69]

7. Hmm.. and I'm sure it has nothing to do with the constant funding cuts..

fucking idiots.

[fascisthunter]

8. the same bastards who are behind an agenda to underfund public schools

exactly

[Canuckistanian]

9. Schools were MORE "socialist" back when America WAS on top

And what happened to Cuba when they went socialist? Their literacy rate went up to 96%.

And what can we draw from this?

If you want your children to be educated, reject "capitalist education".

[OmahaBlueDog]

10. Private schools have kids from families who can afford the tuition

... and those parents can usually also afford computers for their kids, Sylvan Learning Center for tutoring, etc. Parents who make a sizable investment are usually going to ensure a return on their investment.

Public schools have to take all comers. The kid from a single parent household who comes home to an empty house because mom works 2.5 jobs goes to public school, as do the kids of the meth addicts, or the kids fresh off the boat from Haiti who don't speak a lick of English. The private schools have the luxury of not having to pay to educate these kids.

Ask residents of blue collar North Lauderdale, FL how their charter schools worked out. Answer: not well. These schools had to take all comers, and couldn't rise to the location. Charter schools in affluent communities, like West Pembroke Pines, with less social upheaval, do just fine.

[pstokely]

14. A fundie's views of public education

This was in the KC area fundy rag a few years, surprised he can add 2+2

[patrice]

16. I've never understood why they think the tax $s are not spent on them too.

Churches do not have to pay for the demand on ALL of the publicly held resources that they create. They ARE getting a free ride for the benefits of those resources on money that other property holders pay for those resources.

[LeftishBrit]

15. Finland does particularly well in such international comparisons

and they would be an American right-wingers's nightmare :progressive Scandinavian country; high public spending; education in particular is well-funded (maximum class sizes of 20). Their 'socialist style results' are very good!

[seabeyond]

17. my brother not a fundie but freaky rw put daughter on home school. two years

later and waiting for school to start, he has no homeschool program for her and she will probably have to take freshman over. i dont know wtf he is going to do. but all cause of his "fear" of public he is screwing up his daughters education.

i sit in amazement as i watch. and this is a guy that truly values and wants education for daughter. but he has so convinced himself with the help of rw mouths that public is evil he has himself in a corner

pathetic