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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 04:00 PM
Original message
Thank You Hillary
Hillary Clinton was near the bottom of my choices for President among the 2008 Democratic candidates.

Worst of all was what I perceived as negative campaigning against Obama on her part. The worst example of that was when she said that John McCain has more experience than Obama for the Job of Commander-in-Chief – a statement that could be taken by some as saying that McCain is more qualified for President than Obama. True enough, McCain does have more experience than Obama in certain respects. So does George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. But to emphasize McCain’s greater experience compared to Obama, without simultaneously noting that Obama’s judgment is far superior to McCain’s was almost unforgivable in my opinion.

But enough of that. The recent revelations about the internal workings of Hillary’s campaign have caused me to reassess this issue and see her in a much more positive light. Mark Allen’s Politico article (which discusses a forthcoming article in The Atlantic), titled “Clinton told to portray Obama as foreign”, attempts to portray the Clinton campaign as disorganized and ineffective. What is the basis for that portrayal? Mainly that her campaign was plagued by conflicting advice among her top advisors, much of which wasn’t acted upon. Oh my, how unusual for a political campaign!

The bottom line for Allen is that, after receiving advice from her top campaign strategist, Mark Penn, to go forward with a scorched earth campaign against Obama:

But no one synthesized and acted on the good advice… What is clear from the internal documents is that Clinton’s loss derived not from any specific decision she made but rather from the preponderance of the many she did not make.

Good advice? The only thing good about it, if you want to call it that, is that it may have represented Senator Clinton’s only chance of winning the Democratic nomination. That’s what she was told by her top campaign strategist, and it was probably true.

But at the same time it was a malicious, dishonest, and cynical strategy that would likely have destroyed the possibility of any Democrat winning the Presidency in 2008 and could have torn the Democratic Party apart. The fact that Hillary did not act upon that advice, in my opinion, should put the lie to the suggestion that she would do anything to win the Presidency. In retrospect then, her statement that John McCain has more experience for Commander-in-Chief than does Obama is largely overshadowed, in my view, by her decision to refuse to go with the abominable strategy that probably represented her one best chance of winning the nomination.


Mark Penn’s cynical strategy advice

Here is the gist of what Penn advised, from Allen’s article:

Penn suggested getting much rougher with Obama in a memo on March 30… “Does anyone believe that it is possible to win the nomination without, over these next two months, raising all these issues on him?...”

Penn, the presidential campaign’s chief strategist, wrote in a memo to Clinton excerpted in the article: “I cannot imagine America electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values.” …

The Penn memo suggesting that the campaign target Obama’s “lack of American roots” said in part: “All of these articles about his boyhood in Indonesia and his life in Hawaii are geared towards showing his background is diverse, multicultural and putting that in a new light… Let’s explicitly own ‘American’… He (Obama) doesn’t… Let’s add flag symbols to the backgrounds.”

And that is the gist of what Hillary is being criticized for not putting into action, in Allen’s article.


What motivates articles like Allen’s column in Politico?

As far as I’m concerned, this is just one more right wing attack article. It accomplishes two purposes at once. First, it attempts to make Senator Clinton’s campaign, and by extension she herself, look incompetent. It implies that her failure to incorporate her chief campaign strategist’s advice into her campaign was a matter of incompetence rather than a principled decision. There is no basis for that assumption. A decision was made not to go with that cynical and destructive strategy. Or alternatively, no decision was made to go with it. What is the difference, and who could ever differentiate between the two with any certainty? Common sense suggests that it was a purposeful and principled decision.

Secondly, the article clearly implies that a racist campaign to paint Barack Obama as “un-American” would have been a “good” strategy for the Clinton campaign. In so doing, it implies a certain amount of legitimacy to such a campaign strategy. Undoubtedly, that will be the McCain campaign’s strategy. It has started already, and it is bound to get worse. Had Hillary gone with that strategy, she would have added a great amount of perceived legitimacy to the McCain campaign’s efforts along those lines. (And in addition, efforts to unite supporters of the Obama and Clinton camps would have been greatly undermined). That would have provided much fuel for the McCain campaign and greatly hurt Obama’s chances of winning the election.


Some thoughts on the race issue

Throughout most of the campaign season I saw Obama’s race as neither a positive nor a negative factor. I was an Edwards supporter. I considered much of Obama’s rhetoric to be too conservative for my tastes, and that bothered me.

But since Edwards dropped out of the race, and especially since Obama became the presumptive Democratic nominee, I have come to fully support his candidacy. Mainly that is because his positions and judgment are so superior to McCain’s in almost every way.

Also, I now see the race issue in a positive rather than in a neutral light. Although there has been much improvement over time, our country is still way too racially divided. A successful Obama Presidency will do much to improve that situation. There is nothing as likely to reduce racism as much as familiarity with people of different races. One very large component of racism is simply fear of the unknown. A successful Obama Presidency will go a long way towards alleviating that.

In addition, an Obama Presidency holds the potential to substantially improve our standing in the world. After seven and a half hears of the Bush/Cheney nightmare, our standing and level of respect in the world has dropped to an all time low. We have a lot to make up for. Electing an African-American President could be a first step towards showing the world that Americans are not as racist as many suppose we are. A successful Obama presidency could do a tremendous amount towards restoring our standing in the world.

But make no mistake about it, our country is still plagued by racism, and that is bound to hurt Obama in this fall’s election. Nevertheless, Obama is such a superior candidate to McCain that he overcomes the race factor and more, such that he has been consistently well ahead of McCain in both national polls and in Electoral College analyses.

A recent incredibly stupid article, titled “7 worrisome signs for Obama”, lists race as the first “worrisome sign”. The article rightly notes that racism in our country probably hurts Obama’s chances. But it also admits that Obama has been polling even with McCain among white voters, compared to John Kerry who lost the white vote by 17 points, and Al Gore who lost the white vote by 12 points – both in very close elections. So how is race a “worrisome sign” for Obama when he as a black candidate is polling better among white voters than any Democratic candidate since the Lyndon Johnson landslide of 44 years ago?


Closing thoughts on Hillary Clinton and the 2008 Presidential race

Tensions can and usually do get very heated during political campaigns, even within parties. For me, the recent revelations of the campaign strategy advice that Senator Clinton received during this past primary season puts things into clearer perspective. What I once saw as unacceptably negative campaigning on her part now seems quite mild compared to what it could have been. Some might argue that I’m being too easy on her by using too low of a bar to compare her actions against. Nevertheless, in view of these revelations it should be quite clear that the charge that she would do anything to win the Presidency is absolutely false. I feel that she deserves credit for not going down that road. Thank you Hillary!

The biggest factor in my being against her nomination from the beginning was her relatively hawkish views on war, especially her Iraq War Resolution vote. Nevertheless, that too could be put into some perspective: All five 2004 and 2008 presidential candidates who were in the U.S. Senate when the IWR came up for voting (Clinton, Kerry, Biden, Dodd, and Edwards) voted for the Iraq War Resolution; Hillary Clinton has been one of a minority of U.S. Senators to support and vote for the cutting off of funds for continuing the occupation of Iraq; she was one of only 34 U.S. Senators to vote against the atrocious Military Commissions Act; during the Democratic debates she spoke forcefully for the need stop torturing our prisoners; and she was one of only 28 Senators to vote against the recent FISA Amendment that for the time being has largely destroyed our Fourth Amendment.

Senator Clinton can do a great deal to help Obama get elected President, thereby stopping cold a de facto third (and possibly fourth) term continuation of the Bush/Cheney nightmare. She seems more than willing to help, and we need her help. We also need the support of her supporters.

Under these circumstances I feel much better about the new perspective I now have on her campaign. Our corporate news media will do everything it can between now and November to make Obama look bad, shield McCain from his repeated inane statements, and divide Democrats. I for one am sick and tired of this pathetic excuse for journalism. Thank you, Hillary, for doing your part to fight against that effort.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. The recent revelation is nothing more than a way for the media to spew their talking points again.
It was a faked up Hillary camp controversy so that they can try to do more damage to Obama without seeming to be putting out negative attack talking points. And the media steps right in line.
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. And the suckers here at DU swallow it hook, line and sinker
every time.

P T Barnum said, "There's one born every minute." Well, they must have registered here at DU!
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I agree.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I absolutely agree
I hope I made that clear in my OP.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you and I totally agree
the Hillary BS was just like the press using the E "issue". More attempts to drive us apart -- manipulate us the way they always do. They are not to be trusted.

I personally have great respect for both Clintons. It will be an honor to have them at Denver. They have served this country well and we have much to be grateful for. Pres Clinton is still working on a global level to bring about many of the ideals he embodied while in office. That we could be brought to hate and belittle such an icon of our party is a shame. And based on what? We never cared about the blue dress....but we do care a Hell of a lot about the Constitution, which has a much larger and perhaps irrevocable stain upon it, thanks to the very same people/agenda who brought us this gossip re HC and BC. We must not let ourselves be derailed or fooled like this.

I will do all in my power to see Obama elected. I am glad HC made the choices she did while running. And frankly, she was running against Obama and that's the worst quote they have? Geez. Look at the trash McCain got from Bush when they were in the same contest. Let's keep our eye on the goal, here, and not play their politics. Which are to demean, belittle, gossip, and cause division amongst great thinkers, doers, hopers, etc.

This was a great article. Thanks for posting it.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Thank you -- If one goes to their respective web sites and looks at all the differences between
Hillary Clinton's and Barack Obama's positions on the major issues of concern to the American people, those differences are extremely small compared to the differences between either one of them and John McCain.

I talk about the differences between Obama and McCain in this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5921433

But virtually the same thing could be said about the differences between Clinton and McCain. It will be a terrible shame if we don't have a united party by November.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. The press tosses its panties at John McCain once again by claiming "Hillary agrees with his ads!"
It is shameful and silly at the same time. We really do need a unity ticket so that they will shut up about this "Hillary is the same as McSame" bs.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. If McCain or the corporate media insist on claiming that Hillary agrees with his ads
I don't see why her being Obama's running mate is the only way to stop that. She can disclaim his lies either way, right?

I think that the main need is for party unity, whether or not Hillary is actually on the ticket.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks for the paragraph on Hillary's voting record in relation to Iraq
If you go back and read the transcripts of the floor debate in the US Senate back in October 2002, you will see that John Kerry spent 45 minutes pleading with his fellow Senators to support the Resolution. His speech was much more hawkish than the one Hillary made the following day.

Of course, this didn't stop Kerry from telling everyone during this year's primaries that Hillary was in effect a dummy for following his lead -- and Barack had been right on Iraq all along (even if Obama was not in the US Senate at the time).
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. And she lost Iowa because she didn't apologize for it.
Over 4100 Americans have been killed in a war that was based on lies, rumors, and innuendo, yet Hillary could not find her way to apologize for that single stupid vote.

If Hillary would have apologized for her IWR vote, she could have won in Iowa.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. She's across the board congenitally unable to admit she was wrong.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. She obviously does not regret that vote. Why should she apologize?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. I didn't realize that Kerry was that hawkish on the war
It is rather amazing to me that all presidential candidates in the Senate (for 2004 or 2008) voted for the IWR. I guess the feeling was that if they didn't they would be crucified for it. I don't know why they thought that?
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks Hillary for paying MILLIONS of dollars to an OBVIOUS LOWLIFE.
Her JUDGMENT in picking this slob to head her campaign speaks volumes. With all that is known about the guy, you'll have a real hard time convincing me Hillary expected anything less from Penn.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. When you pick a political strategist, you don't necessarily pick them for their character
You pick them for their ability to map out a winning political strategy.

I do blame Penn for coming up with such an abominable strategy, even though it may have been the best political strategy, if your only objective was to win the nomination.

At the same time though, I give Hillary a lot of credit for refusing to follow that strategy.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Really? And what winning qualities did he have that made her think he was worth the MILLIONS?
His being CEO of a company notorious for it's anti-labor work, connections to Blackwater and John McCain's campaign sure wouldn't have put him at the top of most democrat's list for the job.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I didn't say that he was worth it, and I'm not trying to argue that he was a good choice
My only point is that one can hire a person based on a lot of things other than their character.

If I'm dying of a rare disease and need to see a physician, I may decide that the phsycian's skill level is a lot more important than his character.

If I need a political strategist, I might feel that certain skills are more important than whether the strategist shares my moral values. If he gives me advice that is politically useful but is at odds with my moral values I don't have to accept that advice. That doesn't mean that I can't use that person for his political/polling skills.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. LOL yeah she really took the high road. Historical rewrite, there.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. I Find OPs Like This Even More Depressing Than Hillary Hate
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 08:06 PM by Crisco
Because what it seems to say, to me, is "thanks for pulling your punches and letting Obama win."

I believe the only way we'll ever have a female president is if the candidate in question has the full approval of every person of influence in Washington DC and on Wall St. before the first caucus or primary vote is ever cast. What I've seen this spring has convinced me that if a woman should, by some miracle, get the majority of the delegates, she'll be reviled by her own party if she's not pre-approved by the above. And that woman, whomever she may be, will be a total tool.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. That's not what I'm saying
It's more than pulling her punches. She made this decision when she still had a chance to win the nomination. So in that sense she put her ambition, which was very substantial, secondary to the goal of running a decent campaign. I admire her for that, and this revelation caused me to look at her in a different light.

I strenuously disagree with your assessment. She received the second largest primary turnout in the history of our country, second only to Barack Obama. The enthusiasm for her candidacy was tremendous, and she came VERY close to winning the nomination. She was an exceptionally strong candidate.

If not for her vote on the IWR I feel confident that she would have won.

There is no reason at all that a woman can't be elected presidency in this country, and if I was a little younger I'd expect to see it in my lifetime.

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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Please, Look Again At What You're Saying
So in that sense she put her ambition, which was very substantial, secondary to the goal of running a decent campaign.

That ambition is the thing that she was perhaps most criticized on all season long: Hillary Clinton will do or say anything to win.

"Ambition" in a woman is almost never spoken of as a positive trait. There is no way on god's green earth a person can get elected as POTUS without ambition. Ever.

It was the biggest negative attack of the cycle, it was perpetuated by people who screamed at the slightest hint that Hillary Clinton might go negative, it was effectively spread throughout the netroots and major media - and it worked.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. I looked again
There is nothing wrong was ambition per se. It is a bad thing when it is so intense that it over-rides moral considerations.

In my OP I give Hillary credit for resisting that. That is a compliment, not an insult. If you can't see that, then I suggest you read my OP again.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. Obama's not Muslim
"As far as I know" Not going to use it huh!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I think that that issue was greatly over-played
It wasn't Hillary Clinton's responsibility to defend her Democratic primary opponents against attacks. I doubt that she had any direct positive knowledge of Obama's religion. Refusing to defend him is a long long way from attacking him.

I was much more upset about her statement that McCain was more experienced for the Commander-in-Chief position, and a couple of other things she said. But all of those things are minor, in my opinion, compared to her refusal to follow Penn's advice on this issue.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. And, in addition, she DID defend him!
3 times! She was asked 3 times, in different words, if Senator Obama is Muslim. 3 times snhe forcefully said NO! Then Threw up her hands and said, with that resignation tone we ALL use when something is REALLY frustrating, "as far as I know". It was more a throw away line than a statement.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
22. Mark Penn destroyed the Clinton Campaign
He was campaigning like it's 1999

Only it's 2009 that we should be campaigning like (its?)

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
23. Thanks for trying.
It is refreshing to see reason trump media bias here on DU. Those of us that supported Hillary in the primary and now not only support but work for the Obama campaign do get tired of the primary warriors doing their best to relive their "triumph" from four weeks ago. It does nothing to help us get Barack elected and does quite a bit of good for the republicans whose goal it is to keep dissent alive in the Democratic party.

Hillary is a political professional, as is Barack. Both have made decisions and cast votes that they shouldn't have for political reasons. But I think both of them have a core set of values that won't let them cross some lines. A careful reading, sans bias, of the recent Atlantic material and associated stories will show that Hillary would not do what so many accused her of.

Time for Change has given us just such a careful analysis. Posts like this go a long way toward helping us defeat mccain.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Thank you
Here's to party unity and defeating McCain :toast:
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
24. Wow! The air on DU just got a bit more fresh and clear
What a wonderful essay from an Obama primary supporter.

Thank you.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Thank you
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. ...and I guess we're also supposed to believe that not having a military
background is "un-American" . . . ?

No credentials for warmonger --- ???

Hooray --- !!!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. ...we've also got to stop this FLAG/BIBLE WAVING BS . . . !!!
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:23 PM by defendandprotect
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
29. She did the next worst thing: She passed on the blueprint to McBush with release of these emails.
While you may be willing to mitigate the damage the Clintons inflicted on Obama based on the release of these emails, there is still debris in her wake from the primaries that cannot be ignored.

The Clintons behave as if they are a political party onto themselves, Obama and the rest of the party be damned. That theme is played out with the bellicosity of some of her supporters that now are forwarding damaging material (see Capital Hill Forum forum for details) to McBush with the expressed fervent hope they "take Obama down."

The Clintons are poison.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I don't think McCain needs a blueprint to run a scorched earth campaign against Obama
What would have helped him more than anything would have been if Hillary went along with Penn's plan to paint Obama as un-American. That would have made it so much easier for McCain.

Now he has to "take Obama down" himself. He'll give it everything he has, but he'll look like an idiot trying to do it.
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