I have truly and completely had it with "Nationalism."

[Tyler Durden]

Disclaimer: I am a U.S. Navy Veteran, with WAY more radiation on my ticket taken in the line of duty than is allowed by Law, as a Medic in the Cancer Wards and as a Broken Arrow team member, so I done my bit.

On to the rant.

We all breath air, we all drink water, we all eliminate, age, and die. So what the fuck is it with

"GODBLESSAMERICAGODBLESSAMERICAGODBLESSAMERICAGODBLESSAMERICAGODBLESSAMERICAGODBLESSAMERICA"?

Why? What have we, or any "Nation/State" for that matter done to rate treatment above all others or special favors? Nothing. In the case of the United States, we've built up enough negative "Brownie Points" in the form of dead civilians over the years since WWII to put us in the Top 5 of criminal nations with Nazi Germany, Stalinist USSR, Rwanda, and Sudan.

What's so great about US? In fact, what's so great about ANY Nation? The Shibboleth of National/Ethnic "Pride" has killed more people than the black death; it's an archaic monster that needs to be slain.

Instead, what do we do? Stupid shit like throwing "The Olympics" every four fucking years. What a crock. Has there ever been one of these farces go on without at least a couple of participants if not actually at war with each other then busy slaughtering some ethnic or political identity just for the sake of the Homeland? This I sincerely doubt. This extravaganza, this POTLATCH, thrown for all our National Prides while millions suffer and starve? How do ANY of us sleep at night?

The hypocrisy of Nationalism is its worst feature; the extension philosophy of the schoolyard bully, while proclaiming the holy homeland, and absolutely worst of all, the self immolation by persecuting the Nations' own citizens. This is the beast that gives birth to things like the various "Inquisitions," the "Committee for Public Safety," the People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs (NKVD), the Schutzstaffel, the The Milice de Volontaires de la Sécurité (commonly called the Tonton Macoutes), the Columbian, Chilean and Central American Death Squads, the Bosnian Genocide...

And the hits just keep on comin' with the Million Plus DEAD in Iraq, and this after the MILLIONS dead in the Iran/Iraq conflict which we fed arms into.

Nations are just Man's way of choosing up sides for wars and killing. They must END, that is, if we expect to survive as a species, which I'm not seeing as exactly a "Positive" given our track record. We will eventual become extinct, it's inevitable since Possibility times Eternity equals Certainty, so maybe we should just give the next up and coming species a "leg up": Voluntary Human Extinction anyone? (http://www.vhemt.org/)


"Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again." Bertold Brecht

[Tyler Durden]

1. A quote from my late father:

"There will never be peace until every adult can see themselves as the parent of every child."

RIP, S. Ben Johnson, 1925-1991

[Ron Green]

2. Nationalism is one of the really Big Lies.

It's one that says a citizen of one country is somehow different from that of another in an important way. That's just bullshit.

[Tyler Durden]

3. Highly toxic and terminal bullshit.

I think we should have "International Naked Human Day."

One day each year, EVERYONE has to go naked. NOBODY gets to wear clothes but cops and firemen. You want to talk about an EQUALIZER.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. The test was WWI... socialists couldn't believe workers would fight each other

But flags trump class.

(Trades in sports are similar... people think they root for the players, but when the players get traded it turns out fans were actually just rooting for the uniform.)

[elizfeelinggreat]

8. Interesting analogy

When we first married my DH watched a lot of sports. I picked one to watch with him, trying to get interested - basketball. In a short period of time they traded a lot of the players - then the coach moved to a team that had been their big rival and I just couldn't keep watching.

I think DH's loyalty was because he used to attend the games. The team was more than individual people to him - I didn't have that history and was completely confused at suddenly finding myself rooting for former rivals. I made the mistake of being more interested in the players, LOL.

[Romulox]

5. Nations are a necessary evil; the alternative is rule by multinational corporations. nt

[Tyler Durden]

11. There are others:

Anarchy: keeps the population down, and slows the mischief we can do,

World Empire: at least the trains run on time,

World Democracy: unstable (see Anarchy)

World Socialism: LESS unstable, the jury is still out.

[Romulox]

12. Interesting alternatives, but world wide corporatism is the reality on the ground. nt

[Tyler Durden]

17. So was Romanov Autocracy in 1917.

Look where that went.

[Romulox]

27. Putin autocracy 2008? Is it really a huge leap? nt

[Tyler Durden]

28. Not in my mind.

History doesn't necessarily REPEAT, but it sure does rhyme and echo a lot.

But then, nobody studies history anymore, do they? I did; see where it got me.

[pampango]

14. Why is world democracy unstable and linked to anarchy?

And aren't world democracy and world socialism together possible? Are both only possible within nation-state borders?

I cannot believe that people are not destined to govern themselves and must be governed by, hopefully benevolent, superiors. If they govern themselves (imperfectly no doubt since humans have flaws), regardless of the structure that governing takes, they live in a democracy by my definition.

[Tyler Durden]

19. I would hope Democratic Socialism might be possible.

As to people governing themselves, though, I usually side with H.L. Mencken in thinking that people always get the government they deserve, and we ain't very deserving as critters.

As long as we see a paycheck in it somewhere, somebody is going to run for GOD, and eventually get elected. I guess my big problem is the equation I put in the OP:

Possibility x Eternity = Certainty

Meaning, if there is a loophole left open that Hitler can crawl through, given enough time, he will.

[DailyGrind51]

6. Samuel Johnson on "fear" and "patriotism".

"It is the quality of patriotism to be jealous and watchful, to observe all secret machinations, and to see publick dangers at a distance. The true lover of his country is ready to communicate his fears, and to sound the alarm, whenever he perceives the approach of mischief. But he sounds no alarm, when there is no enemy; he never terrifies his countrymen till he is terrified himself. The patriotism, therefore, may be justly doubted of him, who professes to be disturbed by incredibilities..."

Samuel Johnson: The Patriot

In other words, a "patriot" is the "Ron Suskind" who blows the whistle on guys like Bush and Cheney, not the "Newt Gingrich" who invents imagined enemies to scare people.

[EnviroBat]

7. Thanks for this tyler.

I expressed my utter loathing of the Olympics in another thread. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees what a farce they are. I just didn't put it as eloquently as you have here. I think I said something to the effect of "Nationalist Dogma". At any rate, it's a Jurassic concept that we are just too stupid to shake.

[Tyler Durden]

10. love your sig line.

Tried to steal it, but it wouldn't animate for me.

[sinkingfeeling]

9. I agree and that's why my bumper sticker says, "God Forgive America".

[progressoid]

13. True and yet

while we may shun nationalism in many scenarios we embrace it when it suits our needs. Like decrying NAFTA or the outsourcing of jobs.

[The2ndWheel]

15. As long as there is diversity, there will be conflict

The only question is one of scale.

All forms of organization dislike anything that isn't like itself. That's why two governments can control a single nation. That's why corporations are in constant competition, and eventually buy themselves out and merge into a single corporation. You can even go to a smaller level, and the need for life to eat other life.

But if you wanted to get rid of the nation-state, just do away with agriculture.

[Tyler Durden]

20. OOOO I LIKE it.

Eventually the last human will eat the 2nd to last human.

That works.

[DutchLiberal]

16. Thanks for your post. Nationalism is on the rise also in my country...

For a long time, it was considered to be 'bad' too be too proud of your country in The Netherlands, and signs of nationalism were frowned upon. But in recent years, since 9/11 and two political murders (both relating to Islam), extremely nationalist politicians have become very popular. There is even a new political party called 'Proud of Holland' which would get over 20 seats in parliament according to polls. It's sickening.

You're absolutely right: nationalism is a lie, thought up by leaders to keep the little people fighting among themselves, for the benefit of those same leaders. You mention the Balkan, Rwanda and Sudan. And now there's Georgia, which is really about oil and gas, but as always, nationalism is being used to keep the regular people supporting the war.

[Tyler Durden]

21. Any time someone starts touting Nationalism to me....

I pull up a picture of Earth from outer space. The only real national borders you can spot are Island nations, and the border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic, again showing what locusts humans can be (the Haiti side has no vegetation).

[cliffordu]

18. Exactly. K&R.

Excellent piece.

[Tyler Durden]

22. We keep agreeing, we will have to share some beers.

[cliffordu]

25. Excellent!!!

"You don't know where I been, Lou. You don't know where I've been...."

:beer:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. That's why my previous car had a bumper sticker that said:

"God Bless the Whole World: No Exceptions"

[DFW]

24. Interesting that most of Europe has moved beyond this

When you consider the fierce nationalism that moved Europe to all out war
twice in the 20th century, it's amazing now that it's almost vanished except
for at soccer matches (and even then, it's often no more rowdy than a Yankees-
Red Sox playoff game).

Go to any café in a big city in Europe, and chances are that at a table with
more than four people, there will be at least two countries represented. They
make do with their knowledge of each other's language, or use English, but
they hardly even bother to note which country someone is from. If a German
starts running around yelling "Deutschland, Deutschland!" or a Frenchman runs
around yelling "vive la France!" they are assumed to have a screw loose (caveat:
soccer matches are ALYWAYS the exception! LOL).

Why do we have this national insecurity trait that makes it necessary to ask for
celestial blessing all the time where most countries are well-adjusted enough not
to need it? Are we that scared of it NOT being the case?

[Tyler Durden]

26. The Nationalist Parties are rising again....

There is a Post from a Dutch citizen on this thread stating that fact.

[DFW]

32. There is that phenomenon, but I don't see it in the same way

The Nationalist movements in Holland, Germany and Belgium are still small,
and get their strength, if you want to call it that, from a growing number
of people in their countries that see themselves as disenfranchised by lopsided
favorable treatment of immigrants (mostly Muslim) who get generous treatment by both
welfare and criminal justice systems in high-tax countries with high unemployment.
As usual, there is a grain of truth in their gripes, many of which are of course
blown out of proportion, or twisted to suit their own purposes.

These movements are more isolationist than expansionist, which separates them
from the militant expansionist movements of the 1940s. Indeed, the Vlaamse Blok
in Belgium doesn't want to expand Balgium, but rather separate themselves from the
rest of country.

I live in Germany, travel to Belgium, France, Netherlands, and a lot of other
countries nearby, several times a month, have done so for nearly 30 years, and
speak the languages of all of them. My comments come from first-hand knowledge.

[Tyler Durden]

35. I don't dispute you, but the Nazis started in a beer hall....

...with their treasury in a cigar box.

Everything starts small.

[DFW]

36. Ture, but look what fertile ground nurtured them:

Germany was an economic basket case. Hitler promised to bring them back
to prosperity and make them proud to be Germans again after a stunning
defeat.

Germany now is prosperous, and needs no boost to its national pride.

Full bellies rarely start conflicts in the absence of territorial ambitions.
Germany's bellies are, for the most part full, and with Europe's open borders,
they couldn't care less about border expansion. The Neo-Nazis are doomed to
a few headlines for a few violent incidents, but they'll get no national
audience or large following. Not enough people feel threatened enough to want to listen.

[Tyler Durden]

39. Wait for the next Depression...

And we shouldn't get too fixated on Germany. How about our own back yard?

[DutchLiberal]

40. Don't make me laugh! I wish Europe had moved on...

But, in recent years, quite the opposite has occurred: nationalist parties are on the rise again, and the flag-waving has increased dramatically.

I know in Switzerland, Denmark and Austria, extreme right-wing parties have been represented in government, which accounts for the harsh crackdown on illegal immigration and the general negative attitude and treatment of foreigners.

Meanwhile, Belgium is about to fall apart because of nationalist tendencies. The Flemish (Dutch-speaking) and the Walloons (French-speaking) can't get over their differences. There's a large faction of Flemish politicians as well as regular citizens who want nothing more than separate themselves and start an independent country apart from the Walloons. Then there's the extreme-right party 'Flemish Interest', which was convicted by a judge of racism, that gets bigger every election because of their anti-immigrant themes and their slogan "own people first".

In my country, the past 6 years have been dominated by the rise of one populist right-wing demagogue after another, always trying to pitch 'us' against 'the muslims', with great success. Recently, a new party was formed called 'Proud of Holland' which already holds over 20 seats in the polls, without even one plan announced, other than pressuring 'immigrants/muslims' into 'assimilating' to 'our own' culture.

[Irreverend IX]

42. It's only been 63 years since WWII.

That's an eyeblink in history. Who's to say that totalitarianism won't be en vogue again in a few more decades? Italy's already showing bad signs, and another depression could lead to serious problems down the road.

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. "Voluntary Human Extinction Anyone?"

I had to laugh at that website. In fact, I'm still giggling at the notion.

[Tyler Durden]

30. Gonna happen eventually.....

Possibility x Eternity = Certainty.

The odds are not on our side...maybe the best legacy we could leave is a clean back yard for the next guy.

[shadowknows69]

31. I think we have a pathological species wide death wish

Or somewhere our "evolution gene" got supercharged to the point that we think "survival of the fittest" means killing everyone else in the world but yourself. K+R, you'll have to let me know more about your Broken Arrow exp in a PM sometime. Assuming you can do so without having to kill me that is. Please and thank you.
S

[cherokeeprogressive]

33. Okay... You first. I promise if you do, I will. In fact, let's go at the same time.

Close your eyes and we'll go on three. Ready? One... Two... Three! (opening my eyes to see you looking back at me)

You're right. We will ALL die eventually.

But what's the point of VOLUNTARY EXTINCTION if the sun is going to scorch the earth into vapor eventually anyway?

[Tyler Durden]

34. Hey I already HAVE my "Golden Snip"

There is only one person on Earth that I can claim as carrying my genes, and due to the promiscuity of my ex-spouse that question is in doubt. Not that I care, still love him.

But any further progeny will have to span a gulf closed by cauterization and stitches, and my predilection to monogamy.

[Political Heretic]

37. Nationalism is the greatest enemy of the human race.

[cascadiance]

38. Dateline's story about rising Chinese "nationalism" amongst their youth is disturbing too!

This is a country that's getting more powerful daily, and from the sounds of it, the newer generation that's able to manipulate themselves the more fascist (under the cover of "communist" label) state there into more money and power is starting to really campaign on a nationalist fervor *against* the West there. With more kids like these getting into power that are swallowing the whole hypocritical state mantra of "communism" which is really nothing but fascism that hurts many of their disadvantaged people is downright scary.

Rumors are that these groups were responsible for the shutdown of the East Coast's power grid a year ago or so, and that what they could do with their maliscious hacking could be even more dangerous. A new script for another "War Games" movie, but these characters don't have a conscience that would help rescue us from damage they do.

http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/china39s_cyber_warriors_553378

You still wonder if the atomic clock winding us down to WWIII is winding down or not.

[mirrera]

41. Empathy... An intimate understanding of another's thoughts and feelings.

Yeah it is absent. I am speechless... just typelessly numb.
M