If all had gone as planned/forecast, we'd be fine. It didn't.

[trof]

Just read that Obama proposes no income tax for seniors making under $50,000 annually.
We qualify, and we could sure as hell use it.

I retired nine years ago.
I crunched the numbers for months beforehand.
Savings (IRA, 401-K), pension, when Social Security would kick in for me and, 3 years later, for Miz t.
Free medical, dental, and prescription drug insurance thanks to being a union member all my working years.
Added up all our monthly bills (yes, we still have a mortgage), and even applied a 'fudge factor' for inevitable increases over the years.
It looked like a 'GO'.

We wouldn't be wintering in the Bahamas, or skiing at Vail (like when had we, ever?), but all in all it looked like we could live a fairly comfortable life.

All went pretty smoothly for the first few years and then...
1. My former employer (TWA) went belly up.
My pension plan was taken over by the government's Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation along with several other big pension plans.
My monthly check was reduced by about 25%.
The PBGC is currently billions of dollars in the red.

2. American Airlines took over what was left of TWA, including obligations to TWA's retirees.
The next year American announced that my free medical plan would now cost me $50 a month, EACH for me and Miz t.
Similar charges for dental and drug plans phased in a little later.
The next year it went to $70.
Now it's $150.

3. Hurricane Ivan hit us. We incurred a lot of out-of-pocket expenses for the clean up. It costs some significant cash to have 20 huge downed oak trees cut up and hauled off.
Can't get insurance for that.
It takes truckloads of dirt to fill the holes left when all the stumps had been pulled.
Can't get insurance for that.
It's also expensive to replace a 30 foot section of asphalt driveway that was ripped up by the roots of the adjacent downed trees.
Can't get insurance for that.

And all that cash had to come from my IRA.
Which of course hugely increased my 'income' for that year and kicked us into a higher tax bracket. And greatly reduced the income producing funds in the IRA. Talk about your vicious circles.

4. And then gas hit $4 a gallon.
Give me an effing break. Please?
Of course all goods which depend on gas/oil for transportation (which is basically everything) went way up too.

So that's the series of unanticipated events that brought us from a reasonably 'comfortable' retired couple who had very conservatively (you should pardon the expression ;-)) planned for their retirement, to coupon clipping, grocery 'special' shopping, penny-pinchers who don't even take the car out of the driveway for days on end.

Yeah, I'd sure appreciate a tax break.

[Serial Mom]

1. Sorry to hear about your plans...

We were numbers crunching towards retirement 9 years ago (trying for 2010) and lost 3 jobs (husband lost 2 after working for 1 company for 28 years, me 1) during that time frame, and were fortunate enough to get other jobs (after lengthy searching).

But our numbers have not gained anything, lost some in 9 years, so we are back where we started with the plans in the future another 9 years!

We fear health care costs most so I hope health care is OK for you and then for us in the near future!

Thanks dubya!

[trof]

2. I went on Medicare 2 years ago.

It's more expensive than my 'subsidized' medical policy (mentioned above) was.
Bummer.
If I'd had a crystal ball, I would have worked another 5 years.
Too late now.

[baldguy]

3. Who's plan?

Remember Phil Gramm? And Bush & McCain agree with him: THIS is the best economy WE HAVE EVER HAD. Anyone who doesn't think the same is just a whiner - to be destroyed & dismissed.

-The middle class is actively being exterminated.

-The world is at war with us.

-And they make us pay for our own slavery with $150/barrel oil.

That's THEIR plan.

[Bake]

10. Geez, trof, things are GREAT! Hadn't you heard? Quit your whining.

Thanks,
Phil Gramm

:sarcasm:


Seriously, trof, it's a bitch when you work your whole life, scrimp and save, and still can't retire. I'm afraid that's what I'm looking at too.

Bake

[trof]

18. I'm still waiting to get trickled on.

;-)

[truedelphi]

14. Yes the mdidle class is being exterminated!

And they will do it one segment at a time.

It seems to me that those of us in our fifties are being exterminated first.

It is hard if you find yourself unemployed, to find work when you are in your fifties. In part, because since there is no Univeral Single Payer Health Insurance, employers do not like older workers - our being hired means that their insurance premiums go up.

[gratuitous]

4. And now consider . . .

And now consider how your social security check would fluctuate month to month tied to a stock market that has gained a whopping $7 a month during the Bush administration. And you planned for retirement. Imagine the straits of someone who worked for far less money than you during his or her lifetime trying to make it in retirement based on how well they invested their privatized social security account.

Granted, the brokers and the investment counselors would have made a heueueuge pile of money, but what would or should our society do on your behalf, or on behalf of someone who hadn't had even your bad fortune? "Well, they made their choices, got dry-gulched by a bunch of unforeseen circumstances, so it's up to them to starve quietly in the streets." You can hear the oligarchs and their dupes now, can't you?

Lucky for us, the Bush administration hasn't completely trashed our country, but it's been a near thing. I surely hope that during the last few months our Democratic leadership in Congress don't decide that handing this train wreck of a presidency any more victories just because they feel sorry for their sterling record of inepitude. We peons can't afford any more largesse for the oil companies.

[trof]

5. We collect about $2000/mo. from S/S.

Without that we'd be on food stamps.

[KharmaTrain]

6. The Fleecing Of Pensions...A Great Crime

Congrats on making it this far and I fully sympathize with your plight...one shared by many of us. I'm "semi-retired"...selling my business not long after the booosh regime took power (I saw a loomin disaster ahead and I had a chance to cash out)...and thought my "ship had come in"...plenty to retire on and live "comfortably"...while looking for a new business challenge. Thanks to the boooosh economy, those new opportunities have been blocked by greedy corporates and their GOOP toadies who have all but crushed small bueiness. My hoeps are a change in Administration will start a new day...especially for my children who are just starting out on their way.

One thing I was grateful for was doing a forced savings plan when my wife and I were just "getting started"...it not only helped us in setting up our nest egg, but also taught us to always be careful with what we have. What one has today can easily be gone tomorrow.

My wife still clips coupons, these days, my car sits in the garage...between the high costs of travel and the hassles of flying, we're taking our vacations this year in our backyard. The drop in the markets and the dollar along with sharply rising expenses has really bitten anyone living on a fixed income or off of any investments...unless you had them all burried in guaranteed securities...which, until a year ago, most financial planners would say was a waste as returns on market-based funds were bringing in upwards of 10% or more a year compared to 3 to 5%...this is where a lot of us are hurting now.

Hopefully you're able to qualify for Medicare and SSI...I'm still quite a few years away from collecting...and that provides a little relief.

Personally, Senator Obama's tax proposals are one big reason I ended up supporting him. I've long felt it was unfair to tax retirement incomes...money where the taxes had long been paid...and there should be no need for a person such as yourself having to foot the bill twice...especially to a regime that pisses money like it's water. Also the $1,000 energy credit would go a long way to keeping many warm and in their homes this winter.

The best of wishes and good things to you...my hopes are we're hitting a much needed correction in the economy...a painful one, but a long needed one that may finally bring to end the "age of greed"...the "deregulation" that took your airline industry and turned it into a financial clusterfuck. I am seeing the same in my field...and if it means the big fish going down, that's fine with me...it also will mean new opportunities for those ready to pick up the pieces.

Cheers...

[trof]

7. I wish Roth IRAs had been around 30 years ago.

That's sure the route I would have taken.
I was laid off 3 times in my career.
The first time it happened, that was a never-to-be forgotten lesson for us.
We were living within our means, but not really socking anything away.
Then BOOM!, no income, no insurance.

It was a scramble to stay afloat financially, almost lost our first little 'honeymoon cottage'.
The rest of our lives we lived the squirrel mentality.
Save, save, save, and spend as little as possible.
Just because you CAN afford something, doesn't mean you NEED it.

Long ago I got out of common stocks in the IRA and went to very conservative debt (interest paying) instruments.
Really solid, long term companies like GM and Ford.
And then...
:-(

[KharmaTrain]

8. The Sad Story Of A Generation

I, too, faced lay-offs...once taking a job that required moving my family to another state. The job didn't work out, the employer broked the contract the moment I started...I ended up suing and won, but for nearly a year I had no income and the pending court case kept me from finding a new job (the case dragged on for nearly a year)...in the meantime, we ate up savings and went into debt with cards...a hole it took us 10 years to dig out of. Insurance? We went without for 5 years and then with minimal coverage until I "retired". But, as you say, it was a lesson that was both a painful and valuable one as my wife and I worked to appreciate what we had and never take anything for granted...especially credit cards and the "promises" of others. We became both very self-reliant and resourceful.

Unfortunately I know many of my peers who never got the message...riding high when the money was there and ending up with lots of debts and problems. Credit got too easy...everyone had to have a house..."spend it now and worry about it later" was the mantra for many. Few ever saved thinking they'd figure it out later. Ironically these are people who glammed onto Raygun and believed the GOOP mantra of "lower taxes"...but they were left behind and, thanks to the draconinan bankruptcy laws, now really behind the 8-ball.

I've always been a conservative investor...and thank my mother for that. A year ago, I took most my money out of the market and parked it guaranteed security with just a small number of blue chippers (Microsoft) and in Euros...I got lucky and hedged in time.

Right now as long as you're not in debt, you're doing good. It'll be a while, if ever, for me to get back into the market. I'm betting that we'll start seeing a rise in interest rates...just like in the late 70's...and then your guaranteed securities will be a very good investment indeed.

[Serial Mom]

9. Thank RAYGUN for the credit problems...

Raygun changed our economy from demand & supply to supply & demand which caused credit companies to love people buying things that were supplied and not demanded thus raising debt in both the consumer and then government coffers.

Deregulations caused A LOT of the problems we are seeing today to the delight of the BFEE! The rich get richer! The neocons steered the country this way after nixon humiliated them by having to resign!

All power to the corps! :sarcasm:

[trof]

19. He was also the cause of my last and longest layoff.

When he fired the controllers, the FAA cut back on traffic they could handle.
So the airlines had to cut back on the numbers of flights.
And of course the number of people they needed to work those flights.
I was off for 2 1/2 years that time.
No love here for Ronnie.

[SheilaT]

11. And you did everything right along the way.

Even had you lived high on the hog and spent every penny during those well-paid years as a pilot, you'd have been told by the company and your union that you were going to have a large pension at the end. Yeah, right.

The airlines seem to be the most notorious of the offenders, but there are apparently a lot of companies out there who seriously underfund their retirement plans.

[mnhtnbb]

12. Less than 10 years is all it took to put millions of people like you

in precarious situations. I am sorry that retirement is not going as planned for you and Miz t.

Hubby turned 65 last year and starts collecting his SS in October. He's still working, and wondering
how much longer the county mental health clinics where he works will be funded. He may be forced
into semi-retirement by virtue of "mental health reform".

He worked for the VA system for many years, so he has health insurance and a pension from them.
Who knows whether the Feds will continue to honor those obligations?

We have encouraged our 21 year old working son to make regular contributions to his IRA--and he's doing it. Who knows what will exist for our kids when it is time to retire?

[Pale Blue Dot]

13. I'm sorry, trof. I have to disagree.

I understand and am sympathetic to all of your concerns. However, it is my firm belief that we as a country are not in a position to cut taxes for ANYONE. We are in far, far too much debt to consider such a thing. It's likely that this tax break will simply be passed on to myself and my children. We will have all of the same problems that you have now, only much, much worse.

Taxes should be raised heavily on corporations and the rich and raised or held steady for everyone else until we are in a more tenable situation.

I wouldn't worry too much about what I'm saying, though. Nobody's listening to me or anyone like me. :D

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

16. Tax cuts can be done - if the corporations and the wealthy

pay more.

[trof]

17. I've paid a lot in taxes. I still pay.

I've worked as a wage earner at one thing or another for around 45 years. And always my paycheck had deductions for federal and state income taxes.
During my airline career (about 30 years) my income progressed from mid to high 5 figures. I actually broke the 6 figure line for a few years at the end.
I paid my share, and then some.

Even if I get a break on federal income taxes, I'll still pay sales tax, real estate tax, annual auto registration tax, etc.

I'll still be paying to educate other folks' kids.
And I don't begrudge them that at all.
Everyone benefits from an educated populace.
Better educated, in fact, that we're producing now.

But for all the reasons outlined in the OP, things ain't going exactly the way I had planned.
If the feds can give me some kind of break, I'll be grateful.

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. We all would appreciate a tax break.

Retirees are the only demographic group who have experienced an increase in incomes in the last 30 years.

Children, meanwhile fall further and further into poverty.

I'm 46, my kids are 18, 16 and 10. I want my grandchildren to, at a minimum, not have it any worse.

The single most important thing that government can do today is to provide for health care for everyone.