To those here that think bringing back a draft would be a good thing:

[Smith_3]

So, are you saying, next time a jerk like bush a war for profit, you want to give them the authority to lock everyone in prison who refuses to go? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[Raven]

1. I failed to use the "scarcasm" icon in my recent post advocating

a Draft and I regret that. My point was that maybe if everyone was exposed to the possibility of going to war, we wouldn't have any. I didn't express this very well but other people in the thread did. The burden of carrying out this Country's bellicose policies falls on the poor. My recollection is that the tide of public opinion began to turn against the Vietnam war after a Draft was instituted.

[DrDan]

5. better rethink that - the lottery was instituted in '69

but there certainly was a draft for many years prior to that - perhaps back to the Korean War . . . if not earlier.

[DemBones DemBones]

7. Better recheck that. I know the lottery was after

my daughter was born, so it was not in '69. They may have been planning it then but it was in '71 or '72. It affected my husband and brothers so I was paying pretty close attention.

[DrDan]

10. this site provides a list of 1969 Lottery Numbers

http://www.landscaper.net/draft.htm

Prior to that - there certainly was a draft - that was the point I was trying to make. It goes back for years. The tide of the war did not TURN when the draft was instituted - the draft preceded the Viet Nam war.

[Raven]

11. My husband went to Vietnam in January of 1970. During that year

I was in graduate school in Washington DC. There was still quite a bit of support for the War at that time. I remember huge marches by some group called "Honor America". The actual draft must have been some time after that and that is when I recall a real change in peoples' attitudes.

[DrDan]

13. a draft from 1948-1973

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/deploymentsconflicts/l/bldrafthistory.htm

You are thinking of the Lottery - 1969.

[DrDan]

12. here ya go - 1969

"From 1948 until 1973, during both peacetime and periods of conflict, men were drafted to fill vacancies in the armed forces which could not be filled through voluntary means.

A lottery drawing - the first since 1942 - was held on December 1, 1969 . . . "

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/deploymentsconflicts/l/bldrafthistory.htm

[Raven]

14. Ok, that makes sense. My brother was a junior or senior in college

then and drew a high number. I also remember people racing to get married...do you remember what that was all about? Did they exempt married people for awhile?

[DrDan]

15. yes they did

[pokercat999]

17. My number was 151 I got my notice in 69 unfortunately at

that time I was in the hospital with a broken left femur. Two operations and three years of recovery and rehabilitation later I joined the US Army after failing the physical for the Marines.

What can I say? I was 20 years old and believed the propaganda put out by the US Gov't. I thought we were there to save the Vietnamese and the rest of the world from the commies.

My experience has led me to believe that we SHOULD have a draft. It should start for both men and women at age 62 and work down until all ranks are filled. There should be no deferments except for those totally incapable of holding any type of job.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

18. You're in favour of drafting pensioners?

Or is there a typo in your post?

Either way, I disagree - I oppose any kind of forced servitude.

[DrDan]

20. I think he is saying if we were to draft that way - all wars

would be avoided.

This would put the "decision makers" in line for the draft.

"and down" - meaning 62 then 61 then 60 and so on. Not pensioners.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

21. 62 is pensionable, isn't it?

It certainly is for women (although not men) in the UK.

[DrDan]

22. it is - under Social Security

actually, some corporatations, school pension plans, gov't agencies etc allow the taking of pensions based on length of service - like 30 years - regardless of age. Even 20 years for military, fire fighters, police etc.

I think the point of the post was, however, to get 62 year olds (and then younger until quota is filled), would put congress men and women in line for the draft - hence they would not vote for war quite as easily. They, perhaps, would have to actually fight it.

I think that is the point - not a call for a draft of 62 year olds.

[billyoc]

2. Draft?! Hell no. Send the poor. They have nothing better to do.

[Smith_3]

4. If there is a draft, the poor get sent first anyway.

That is how they did it at least.

[liberal N proud]

16. The rich will not serve as always

They are the ones who are the sons and daughters of the politicians and their biggest supporters. They will never serve, draft or not.
It is big misconception that a draft would keep us out of future wars when the ones waging them can just buy their kids way out of the draft.

[Nay]

3. As a person who lived through the Vietnam era, I can report that

opposition to the Vietnam War was entirely galvanized by the fact that all young men were in danger of getting drafted. No, we don't think a draft would be a "good thing" -- we only think that it might be the only thing that wakes up families with kids who might have to go. A war all of a sudden looks stupid when it's your own kid getting swept up in it.

[Smith_3]

6. But why isn't there more opposition by military families then?

I mean, there are a few groups here and there, but why not big time?

[DemBones DemBones]

8. Because they VOLUNTEERED. nt

[Nay]

23. The military families of mil volunteers never were terribly active, if I

remember correctly -- in fact, the families of the about-to-be-drafted weren't very visible, either. Our parents grew up in the 40s and 50s. You trusted your govt to do the right thing and not throw your kids' lives away unnecessarily. It was the potential draftees themselves who led all the protests, burned their draft cards, etc. It was 90% college kids and HS kids.

[pokercat999]

24. DING DING DING give the poster a prize, this is exactly

what I was driving at. You can fool a 20 year old with a lot of patriotic bullshit but a 60 year old.....not so much.

At a later age we've seen more of the world see the lies and jest put out by our politicians and the DOD. More people in their late 50's and early 60's would refuse to follow unlawful orders. I was actually very serious. With todays modern weapons a person in their late 50's or early 60's and in relatively good shape could handle war as well or better than most teenagers and lets face it at 18 and 19 (age of most lower ranks) you are STILL a teen.

And can you imagine the uproar when grandma gets drafted?

I seriously believe a military is necessary but I also believe a military designed and used as a DEFENSE as opposed to an offense is also a very good idea.

[rfranklin]

9. Actually, reducing our so-called "defense" would be better...

We have military bases all around the world--more than 700. We have 2.5 million serving in the military. This number could be greatly reduced.

[emanymton]

19. Could Also Act As A Brake.

.

§ ---

A military that is detached from the civilian society can represent a threat to that society. Argentina with its ruling military class is an example of this. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are examples where such a very small sliver of society felt the direct affects of members fighting in the war, that society as a whole is able to turn its back on the people serving in the wars.

A national community draft can be a useful tool for social engineering. Combining this with a military service draft can be beneficial to all. The idea could be a useful program for improving the future for _all_ Americans.

Requiring members of a community to perform public service as a part of being included in a community benefits both the person and society. This is done by connecting the person to the community. Keeping people involved with the system. Keeping system honest.

Drafting members of a community into service to and for the good of the community has benefits.

1. reinforces the connection of the knowledgeable individual to the community. Reinforcing the connection of the person to the community by allowing the person to provide needed services. (Pool of trained representatives available to use within the community.) Working as a trained life-guard at the local community swimming pool gives outlet for quality of life activities and programs.

2. keeps the people involved with their community and society. Community centers with well trained and profession staff keep the human network working for people. It involves people in their communities. An example of this is parents, as their children go through school become active in the school.

3. ensures the system remains true to its roots and focused on serving the individuals/community/country. The flow of people into and through the system ensure the system provides the desired services. The system is not a mystery. The administration held accountable from within. Schools work best when administration, parents and students are directly involved.

A young person can be given a choice to enter military service or go into community service. In the end, society has a pool of trained talent ready for extended use to the community and the military remains rooted in its society.

§ ___

.