Bush, Manson, and the Media Blackout - Interview with Vincent Bugliosi-Michael Collins(aka autorank)

[autorank]

Link: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0808/S00142.htm
Tuesday, 12 August 2008, 11:10 am
Column: Michael Collins

Michael Collins: Bush, Manson, and a Media Blackout on Prosecuting Bush
An Interview with Vincent Bugliosi - Part 2

"More dead since the war was declared won.
A war based on lies and deceit." Image cc

Michael Collins
"Scoop" Independent News
Washington, DC
<(link:www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0808/S00099.htm|Also see Part 1)>

If a man carefully plans and executes the killing of another, we call him a murderer, arrest and try him, then send him off to the nearest death chamber. In many states, individuals convicted of three felonies are subject to an automatic life sentence under a program quaintly referred to as the "three strikes and you're out law." Justice for ordinary citizens in the United States may not be swift but when executed, it is final and unforgiving.

But when a national leader fabricates evidence to support the reasons for war thus causing death to thousands of soldiers and hundreds of thousands of civilians, what do we do? We give him 24 hour a day, 7 day a week protection, a stretch limo and a deluxe plane with all the gas he'll ever need, and a house full of history and helpers in the middle of the nation's capitol. We call him "Mr. President."

Renowned prosecutor and best selling true-crime author, Vincent Bugliosi, has a different idea in his book,
The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder.

INTERVIEW WITH VINCENT BUGLIOSI - PART 2

VB: With Manson, as an example, because he's the most well known, by far, of all my murder defendants, I simply viewed him as an extremely evil person who had committed horrendous murders and therefore forfeited his right to live. He deserved the death penalty, and I told the jury, "If this is not a proper case of imposition of the death penalty, no case ever would be." I even challenged the jury. I said, "If you're not willing to come back with a verdict of death in this case, then we should abolish the death penalty in the state of California. How many people would you have to kill to get the death penalty?" And they did come back with a verdict of death.

I also looked upon Manson as someone who, if he walked out of court, was going to continue to kill.

But let me tell you this: For the first time in my career, it's very personal with George Bush, and I'll tell you why. If I prosecuted him and Cheney and Rice or whoever else, Cheney and Rice it would not be personal. I would seek the death penalty against them, for sure. They deserve to suffer the ultimate penalty for what they did, no question about it. But it would not be personal. I'll tell you why it's personal with George Bush -- because the evidence is overwhelming, overwhelming. It cannot be disputed.

SNIP

MC: Oh, you're not allowed to advertise either?

VB: Yeah, on ABC Radio they would not take the money.

MC: That's a first.

VB: Which is, I think, kind of mind boggling. I don't know. It just seems to me that it's mind boggling. And then, of course, as you know, I had a very difficult time getting the book published. I never had trouble before. I had to fly back to New York City, knock on doors, and it was obvious that the publishers I met with thought the book was very marketable, and they seemed to be sympathetic with what I was saying, but it was equally obvious that they were frightened. They would say things like this to me: "Mr. Bugliosi, are you sure you want to publish this book?" And one of them put it in black and white, typed it, or maybe an email, "Too hot too handle."

MC: Has anybody bothered you since it was published?

Link: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0808/S00142.htm

[Me.]

1. Wow, He's Not Pulling Any Punches Here

Death penalty!

[autorank]

3. Not much room for a follow up other than,

:wtf: But that's not cool.

Yep, that's what the renowned former prosecutor said.

[Me.]

21. Telling Like It Is

Is not cool with publishers

[seemslikeadream]

2. helpers in the middle of the nation's capitol.

[autorank]

4. Bush as the anti-Santa

He finds the good kids and takes their toys;)

Great pic

:hi:

[msedano]

5. how many?

charlie killed no one by his own hand. so he rots away in prison. shithead nor cheney nor powell nor rumsfeld nor any of the top henchassholes killed GIs by their own hand, so I suppose they'll get the benefit of an all-expenses lifetime stay in some cushy lockup. inshalla.

why is it that we have to go all the way to new zealand to find honest reportage about unitedstatesian news?

recommended.

mvs

[autorank]

7. Well, NZ is very hip, you know;)

Vince is on point. He'll be "of counsel" when the deal goes down.

Although Bugliosi shows that they're entirely different personalities, they were both absentees -
give the orders, retire for the night, and read about it in the paper. But reality bytes.... and
it's time to go to "the people's court."

[truedelphi]

25. I guess it is safe to say that NZ rocks!!

Between "Scoop" being there, and the group of students who plan on arresting our war criminals whenever any of them visit, I can only say it is one impressive place, politically.

And not so bad, scenery-wise either.

[msedano]

6. how many?

charlie killed no one by his own hand. so he rots away in prison. shithead nor cheney nor powell nor rumsfeld nor any of the top henchassholes killed GIs by their own hand, so I suppose they'll get the benefit of an all-expenses lifetime stay in some cushy lockup. inshalla.

why is it that we have to go all the way to new zealand to find honest reportage about unitedstatesian news?

recommended.

mvs

[Franc_Lee]

8. Bugliosi has to understand he's dealing with George H. W Bush, how

does anyone try to expose them? If this story gains traction, Bugliosi better watch his back.

[autorank]

11. I asked him if anybody was bothering him since the book came out.

It's up to 150,000 hardcover sales, pretty amazing for no advertising accepted and a media blackbout.

He said, nobody has bothered him and he went back to his main point.

This book will catch on. The era of media monopoly is over. The internet can support the word
getting out. Once it has, we'll be in a new era hopefully where the fascism of today is gone.
Who knows what will replace it but the pent up demand for relief from bullying and worse will insure
that the intensifying violations of law and simply decency won't survive.

The radical proposal in this book is simple - you take the law and put it in the hands of those
who represent those who suffered the loss - local prosecutors. DOJ can't show up and just say stop it,
right now. Any DA who does this has his own protection in the form of local law enforcement.

It's quite a radical notion but one that, if successful, will make every future president aware
that he/she works for the people and that he/she is not above the law.

What a thought.

[truedelphi]

26. I cannot wait for the day when Bugliosi represents Cindy Sheehan in court

Against President Slime Bag.

That day just cannot come soon enough!!

A big K & R for this interview.

[Hubert Flottz]

9. Did you ask VB if he thought that he could rebuild the DOJ and

repair all the damage the GOP has done there?

I think VB is the man for the job.

[autorank]

10. You know, I think that would be a perfect pick

He'd hire the best people and work their asses off. He's 74 and working every day on this project -
doing radio interviews, working on the film about the book, doing more research.

Somebody has to do that or we're really screwed.

Confident guy, with reasons behind that. He's really confident about this case. He says the
evidence is overwhelming and that he'd win the case or that a decent prosecutor could win the case.

Somebody gave me grief about the idea of a prosecution by saying that Bugliosi was establishment,
blablabla. I lost it for the firs time in about 8 years and then pointed out that it's the idea
that counts explaining further that people who think that they're on the left sound like a cross
between gossips and gang members aligning with "friends" rather than causes. For this cause, we
couldn't have a better ally than Vince Bugliosi.

[Hubert Flottz]

12. I have always had the greatest respect for Vince Bugliosi.

I think VB is even sadder than you and I, to see what our country has become. You are very lucky to have had the opportunity to sit and talk with a man who I think possesses one of the greatest legal minds of all time. I'll always be grateful for Vince Bugliosi's brave and unselfish effort to correct the wrong that has been done to the nation and to the world by these radical self serving neocon outlaws.

Vince Bugliosi is my idea of a true American patriot. A man who puts everything on the line for what he believes in his heart is right and just for America.

Thank you too MC, for the fine work that you do.

[BeHereNow]

13. Part 2! YAY!

Thanks autorank!

BHN:thumbsup:

[althecat]

14. Kick and 13th rec

Classically excellent material there Michael.

[autorank]

16. That Vince

You would have loved talking to him. 100% his own man. I think I know the secret, although
he wouldn't go there. His family is from Hibbing, MN, right in the "Iron Range" - lots of mines.
They do business there with hand shakes not with contracts and you never break your word or that's
it. So Vince sees a crime. No problem, prosecute the guy and if he's found guilty, the law
takes care of it.

If this is done and it works, it's a radical reversal of federalism. Every locality has the
right to hold the president accountable for crimes committed that affect that locality, without regard
to what the rest of the country does. For example, people in Nevada could have sued Eisenhower for
gross negligence for allowing nuclear testing above the ground in the 1950's. The knew and did it
anyway. The list is endless. We have the tools for a peaceful revolution in the hands lf local
district attorney's/state's attorneys. No more lawyer jokes;)

[martymar64]

19. Bob Dylan is from Hibbing, too!

Must be good water there, or something.

[autorank]

39. The water and lots of hard work

In the mines;)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

15. What I wouldn't give to have him prosecute these criminals...

thanks for the excellent "Scoop", Mike. :hi:

[H2O Man]

17. Wow!

Vincent Bugliosi is doing the best job at communicating the outrage of a large segment of the American people, and their desire to hold President Bush, VP Cheney, and Condi Rice accountable.

And you have done the best job at interviewing Mr. Bugliosi, and doing so in a way that allows us to feel like our questions are being asked, and our values being expressed and respected.

I should add that I have watched Mr. Bugliosi for many years, starting when he spoke decades ago in Oneonta, NY. So when I say you have done the best job, I do not say it lightly.

Nominated. And very much appreciated.

[autorank]

33. Much appreciated H2O Man

Oneota NY. That's a while back I bet. He is most impressive and going into it I was somewhat
intimidated, given his penchant for meticulous preparation. I had pages of questions. He answered
them all but by his own pace and timing. It was a real pleasure.

Think about the impact this would have. Our chief executives and their cabinet members would have to
think - "OK, the XYZ Corpration is offering me a bundle to fix these regulations BUT, if I do, people
will die from the - radiation, polution, etc. - and them I'm subject to prosecution. Better not
do it. You never know when one of those @%@# local prosecutors will haul off and indict me."

That would be a wonderful citizen generated check to balance out the greed and total indifference
to our lives and well being at the top of the pyramid. Might even invert the pyramid.

[TorchTheWitch]

18. Fantastic job autorank!

And thanks for the links at the end especially for the audio book.

You should add a link on his wikipedia site... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Bugliosi

[autorank]

36. Thanks and the link is a good one

Amazing isn't it - major print interview, Scoop, New Zealand (which, of course is all over the place here) and only audio book publisher willing to step up to the plate, BBC.

I'm looking to his commentary on this event, which he promises in the revised edition or some separate piece. Quite something. They shunned the wrong guy as a result of one of his greatest works.

[Senator]

20. K&R&Impeach Now

[Peace Patriot]

22. K&R!!! nt

[formercia]

23. The Ogliarchs almost always get away with it

Steal a candy bar on your third strike and it's life in prison.

The laws are written with sufficient legal fuzziness, so that with a gang of high-powered lawyers who know all of the trick arguments, it's always the good life. You pay your tribute and go on your merry way. On the other hand, those of us who are lacking in means, suffer the consequences and wind up as a slave of the prison-industrial complex.

If you're poor, better enjoy it and keep your nose clean. I think I'll pick the next President.

[autorank]

24. That would bring my mood way up - you picking the next president

Socialism for the rich and free enterprise for the rest of us.

I think the goal is to make us all poor. The banks who created the problem are working it out and
we know what kind of work they do.

[formercia]

28. Laws are written by Lawyers.

I don't know what the percentage is of Lawyers in Congress, but I would bet the majority are denizens of the craft.

Supposedly, laws were supposed to be written in simple terms that even a modestly educated lay person could understand them. Unfortunately, laws that are simple to read and understand would do a great disservice to their their fellow members of the fraternity, so they compensated by making them so voluminous and rhetorically intertwined that the average person throw their hands in the air and say; " I better call a lawyer."

We're fucked.

[formercia]

30. For every good Lawyer, there's a bunch of not so good ones.

I don't mean to disrupt your thread but my personal experience with Lawyers hasn't been a very good one.

My fave is: "Oh, my, that's a Federal case. You'll never get a cent out of them so I have to have my money up front."

I'm sure Vince is a stand-up guy. I rarely meet any stand-up Lawyers.

[MadrasT]

27. Outstanding interview

We knew the situation with the media was bad, but holy crap! Thanks so much for this.

[autorank]

32. Thanks! It's from one who knows the deal

Bugliosi is clearly not an "insider" in the sense that he parties with the rich an famous and
sees himself as above the rest. He knew what the deal was in the past and he knows what it is
now. He's the same person with what he thinks could be his best work and what do they do -
the shun him. He has no obligation to keep this a secret and he's telling it like it is.

They censor and they do it by simply ignoring highly effective people with a real point to make,
if that point doesn't fit their profile.

"Media profiling" - that's a good one.

[Peace Patriot]

29. An impressive fellow--Vince Bugliosi! He reminds me of John Dean and some other

Republicans who have seen the light--Cliff Arnebeck, Joe Wilson, Patrick Fitzgerald. When they get that burr under their saddle, of the betrayal of everything they hold dear--Constitutional government, real 'law and order,' real conservative values (personal responsibility, carefulness with other peoples' money and lives, respect for the public trust, true justice)--they can be ferocious in their reaction against criminals like Nixon, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush, who hypocritically parade 'conservative' values and brazenly violate the law and cover it up with lies and secrecy.

I disagree with Bugliosi on the death penalty. I am against it with no exceptions. I consider murderers like Charles Manson and George Bush & cabal to be insane. In fact, I think this of most murderers. I think it is an abomination to put them or any murderers to death. Justice means nothing to them. They are crazy. It's best for society to give them the chance to recover their sanity. I believe in separation of the insane from the rest of us, of course, for our own safety. I do not support cold-blooded state murder. It pollutes our justice system with all sorts of fascist tendencies and behaviors. And we are NOT God. We can never be sure. The wrongfully convicted at least have a chance at proving their innocence, if they are still alive. Death is final.

For Bush & cabal, I want their money confiscated and life sentences of community service, under constant surveillance--possibly with a webcam, so all can see and know that NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW. Maybe cleaning bedpans in veterans' hospitals. That's my favorite punishment for them. Much better than hanging. Hanging is their way. Service, recompense and healing are ours--the way of civilized beings.

Bugliosi in his book (and Autorank's article) uses photos of Bush laughing and enjoying himself, and quotes of Bush saying he's had "a perfect day"--while soldiers and innocent Iraqis get blown to bits--to make the case that Bush is an unconscionable killer. To me, Bush is insane. Bugliosi doesn't go that far. He takes more the tough cop attitude that Bush is scum. But there is a danger in that attitude, a) that innocents will be executed; and b) promotion of the idea that society can rid itself of violent crime by committing violence.

However, I hugely admire and respect Bugliosi's passion for justice. We can find much common ground among Americans of various political views on that issue. Violent crime, such as Bush's horrendous crimes, REQUIRES action by society. And no one is above the law. No one!

The seemingly untouchable malefactors--as Autorank mentions in the interview--are the war profiteers and global corporate predators who are BEHIND Bush, Cheney & brethren, and our corrupt Democratic leaders who see no harm in a million dead Iraqi men, women and children, nor in over 4,000 U.S. soldier deaths in a corporate resource war. These are the same CEOs and billionaires who have monopolized all news and opinion (outside of the internet), and who are protecting Bush, Cheney, the war/corporate Democrats and themselves from any accountability. The least we can do is to hold the self-identified "Decider" accountable, as a lesson to them all, and to all future political and corporate leaders. I like Bugliosi's idea. It is a focal point--although I see a need for something like a "Truth and Reconciliation" process, but one that is unique to this circumstance. For those who confess and disclose everything they've done, perhaps they can get the community service sentence, contingent upon them giving all their money to approved charities or back to the people. For others, confiscation of all the money we can recover, and regular prosecution, with life sentences in Guantanamo Bay, or possibly exile, if they evade prosecution.

We should take heed of what is happening in South America, with the flowering of real democracy there. The fascist dictators and death squad members of "Plan Condor" (Reagan-backed torture and murder) are being prosecuted. It is never too late. The South Americans (Colombia excepted) are showing the way, and, let me tell you, the first condition necessary for such justice is TRANSPARENT VOTE COUNTING. They've worked hard and achieved transparent vote counting in most of South America. We've lost it. We must get it back. All reform and all justice depends upon it.

[autorank]

31. Good point on the death penalty.

But prosecution is vital.

This is the end of rampant federalism that results in the punishment of individual sectors of the
country. Any chief executive or appointed minion will have to think very clearly about what and how
they do it if there's ever a successful prosecution. You offer a good reminder about South America -
it's never too late to get a killer or torturer.

I can't believe we're even having this discussion. There's no excuse for the focus being on this
nonsense but the prosecution is a remedy, a chill over egoland. Think twice and doublt check will
be the motto.

[Gregorian]

34. This is absolutely brilliant.

And the comments in this thread reflect how I feel as well. In fact I find myself having a conversation a lot lately on just this subject of how a murder can escape justice if armed with enough cash. Or how someone without it...

And this interview answers the question I had on your last thread. It's so outrageous people jerk back in recoil. And they've taken over the media, and turned it into their perfect machine. How we're going to make progress on this is not simple.

But overall, I am very happy to see your interview. It's more momentum for a very important purpose.

Thank you. It feels so good to see this.

[autorank]

35. Bugliosi looks at this as a crime, which validates the views of many

I'm glad you like it and that the other questions were covered. This is a huge interview, 90 minutes. There's more but next up is a look at how CNN mangled their 20 minute take with him, dropped it to four minutes, and, as Bugliosi says, made it look like he was a Bush supporter. I just need the transcript from CNN and it's good to go.

These comments will be convened to Mr. Bugliosi and I'm sure they'll be heartening and helpful. He does know that he's not alone. In fact, he's one among millions who share these views.

Thanks so much for your comment.

[bluesmail]

37. They all should be sentenced to life in Iraq/Afghanistan.

Let the people who's family they've killed and forced to leave their homes decide. Then let us have at them.

[autorank]

38. Kick for the truth