My main gripe with right-libertarian ideology

[GeneCosta]

Other than being inane for the overwhelming antagonism it shows towards homosexuals, women, transsexuals, and the poor - is that it's based on nonsense.

I need some resolution here. How is it that right-libertarians champion "negative rights" only - when property rights are positive rights?

[The Straight Story]

1. I am not drunk enough to reply yet

Kicking for later....

[YOY]

2. It's never really been tried.

And all sources point to it being a colossal f***ing failure if it were ever.

and they call us "idealists."

[Nederland]

3. Property rights are negative rights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_rights

[GeneCosta]

7. The...

The article you quoted says property is a positive right, which is demonstrable: it requires the assistance of others for exclusion purposes. Furthermore, it requires a police force of some nature to exist.

[Nederland]

14. No

Read it again. It says that property rights are negative rights, and private property rights are positive rights.

[GeneCosta]

21. Er.. okay. Seems trivial.

[Taverner]

4. Are you talking Ayn Rand objectivism, or Buckley's NeoCon-ism?

[TrogL]

16. Probably Strauss

[Taverner]

20. True - Wolfowitz studied under him

OF course, like any philosopher, what he said was half right

Its the half wrong part that kills us all...

[rudy23]

5. They lose me when they assume people and markets are rational

Advertising alone should disprove that theory.

Then they try and equate corporate freedom with citizens' freedom. We do not have the same interests--this is why we need an elected government to intervene.

Basically, libertarianism is the ideology of the uber-rich ownership class, trying to reduce life to simple math--hey, if I was a billionaire, I might want to live in a bottom-line society, too. But they convince people in the lower classes that we're all on the same side--with logical fallacies and semantic tricks. To them, government's basic principle of providing an equal vote for each person, no matter their wealth, is like watching a sporting event where they don't keep score.

[bunkerbuster1]

6. It's because they're selfish assholes?

Could it be? that "libertarians" are, as I've defined them (and I'm delighted to hear Thom Hartmann say, as well) nothing more than Republicans who like to get laid and do drugs?

[LostInAnomie]

8. I really wouldn't lump libertarianism in with prejudice against homosexuals, women and transexuals.

Really, I wouldn't lump what is classically considered "right" against them either. Although I would classify them as being against he poor.

What we contemporarily consider the RW has been co-opted by religious fundamentalists for political expediency. It's a political marriage made in Hell.

[GeneCosta]

11. I said right-libertarians

I am a left-libertarian.

[LostInAnomie]

15. It's not really fair to lump the two together though.

Right-libertarian conveys that they are for personal freedom, but against any use of private wealth to fund social programs.

Some RWers may use libertarian ideology as a mask for their own bigotry, but libertarain ideology isn't the cause of their bigotry.

[killbotfactory]

12. They are not against homosexuals, women, or transexuals per say

They just think that the government has no business protecting those groups from discrimination, and allowing private enterprise the freedom to discriminate. They think that if left to it's own devices, the free market will correct any trends of discrimination because they simply can't imagine that there would be economic incentives for discrimination.

[MicaelS]

17. That's it exactly

The attitude that there should be no protected groups of people.

[killbotfactory]

9. Because they are mostly assholes

who think schadenfreude is a valid economic system.

[Warpy]

10. Their hooey will work only when humanity becomes perfect

Ironically, it's the fatal flaw it shares with Marxism.

When those dreamers come up with a better way to deal with the selfish, the lazy, and bullies, they can talk to me. Until then, they can expect to be dismissed.

[bryant69]

13. What is the distinction between a negative and a positive right?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[MicaelS]

18. That is without a doubt

One of the worst, if not THE single worst website design I have ever seen. Especially when loading on Firefox. :puke:

[bryant69]

19. Thank you for pissing on me. All I can say is it looks fine on my version of Firefox. n/t