Has anyone ever exploited his military service for political gain more than mccain?

[Philosoraptor]

[Raven]

1. Well, JFK's campaign certainly made use of PT 109, but

I don't think Kennedy ever said that because he lost his boat he could win wars. Kennedy was a true hero.

[Philosoraptor]

2. I don't care what repubs say, mccain never did anything heroic.

And if he did, he flushed it all away later with his actions.

[Sadie4629]

3. He refused an immediate

release from a Vietnamese prison camp where he was tortured (and still suffers pain and disabilities as a result) until his fellow POWs were released.

Sounds pretty heroic to me. (And most of the rest of the electorate.) Just sayin'.

[Philosoraptor]

4. I can still disregard & make fun of his military service like repubs do, right?

[Sadie4629]

7. Whatever.

I was under the impression that this is a discussion board, but I guess you don't want discussion.

[Philosoraptor]

8. I love discussion, especially if I can tear a man down like repubs do.

[zbdent]

14. Sounds like he went into the Vietnam conflict to pad his resume to later run

for the Presidency ... you know, like the Repukes claimed John Kerry did?

Only thing was, John Kerry didn't crash 4 other Swift Boats prior to being captured by the North Vietnamese on his fifth crash ...

Of course, John Kerry wasn't the son and grandson of Admirals ...

[Sadie4629]

19. You do know the truth about the planes

McCain crashed, right? Right?

[ColbertWatcher]

23. Do tell the "truth" about Admiral McCombover's plane crashes. n/t

[Sadie4629]

28. Found a little info

He probably wouldn't have been flying after the first crash, if not for who his father and grandfather were; however, to simply state that he "lost five planes," as if he was just an incompetent cowboy is totally misleading.

He was not so lucky in his combat assignment aboard the USS Forrestal. In 1967, an accidentally fired missile struck the fuel tanks of McCain’s plane before it took off, resulting in a deadly fire that killed 134 men and destroyed 20 planes. While McCain was trying to help another pilot escape, his legs and chest were injured by fragments from a bomb that exploded nearby.

However, this incident would not dissuade McCain from continuing to fight for his country. McCain volunteered for more combat duty and was assigned to the USS Oriskany. In October 1967, while he was flying his 23rd combat mission, his plane was shot down. After breaking both arms and a leg, and almost drowning, McCain was captured by the North Vietnamese, becoming a prisoner of war.

http://www.hooyou.com/news/news072908politics.html

Misfired missile. Not his fault. Shot down. Probably not his fault.

It wasn't long after arriving in Pensacola that McCain racked up the first of his five crashes, beginning in 1958, on his way to becoming a "reverse ace." As told by Timberg, "McCain was practicing landings; his engine quit and he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay. Knocked unconscious by the impact, he came to as the plane settled to the bottom."

Conflicting info on this. If his engine quit, it wasn't his fault. (Although there may not have been engine failure.)

Crash three occurred when McCain was returning from flying a trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. According to Timberg, McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout." He went through the standard relight procedures three times. At one thousand feet, he ejected, landing on the deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees."

Flameout? Don't know exactly what that means, but it sounds like it wasn't his fault either.

[ColbertWatcher]

32. Fighters or bombers? n/t

[Sadie4629]

33. Don't understand your question

Why would that make a difference?

[ColbertWatcher]

34. "Why would that make a difference?"

Details.

Did he fly fighters or bombers?

[Sadie4629]

36. I don't know

It should be easy enough to find out, but I don't have the time this morning. I simply don't understand the relevance of your question. He flew--planes. Five of them crashed. At least some of those crashes were beyond his control. And he will never fly another plane. End of story.

[zbdent]

37. oh ... right ... nothing ever is a Republican's fault ...

"the party of personal responsibility" ...

[ColbertWatcher]

41. I just find it curious that you feel certain details are necessary...

...when explaining away his complicity or responsibility for the crashes, thus continuing the charade of his maverickness, yet the minor detail of what kind of planes he flew can be glossed over.

Either McCain's reputation, record and history can hold up to scrutiny, or it cannot.

[zbdent]

26. please tell me the official Republican spin on the crashes ...

[zbdent]

15. he also signed a denouncement of America ...

under what is now no longer considered the Republican definition of torture ... his organs didn't fail ...

[zbdent]

12. and the Conservatives of the time were screaming about how the Catholic Church

would be controlling the Presidency ...

:silly:

[Raven]

42. Yeah, anybody use that tunnel to the Vatican?

[Mabus]

5. Bob Dole

[KharmaTrain]

6. Poppy Boooosh

Gramps has milked his POW status from the moment the plane touched down in the Phillipines. No question he's slid by as a "great hero". Now I wouldn't mind that...and didn't...as I have a tremendous respect for all who served in Nam...and now a special place for those who've gone throught the Iraq meatgrinder, but most of these vets prefer to downplay their experiences, not exploit them.

Poppy used his getting shot down in the Pacific as a big deal in '88...Atwater trying to make him into a "man's man" to fight the wimp label on him.

[Sadie4629]

11. I have tremendous respect for anyone who fought in WWII

Probably because my dad did.

For those guys, it was the defining period of their lives. Get two strangers of that age together, and sooner or later the question will be asked, "What did you do in the war?" because it was the biggest, most dangerous, and most important thing most of them ever did in their lives.

The vast majority of us cannot imagine what they went through, what they saw, what they felt. D-Day. Battle of the Bulge. Liberating concentration camps.

If they want to talk about it a lot, fine by me.

[KharmaTrain]

18. My Father Also Was A WWII Vet

He was a medic who went from Normandy/St. Lo well into Germany...and he, too saw the camps...something he avoided talking about until his later years. Being Jewish, they tried to keep him from going in, but he said he had to see what had happened with his own eyes.

I can remember many a night where he'd have friends over...all served...and they'd trade off stories of where they served and what they encountered...usually in a joking manner, but as you say, you could see how their experiences affected their lives. It's also hard to fathom now how a war could be popular...and that everyone who went was proud of their service and what they fought for. It was a vast contrast to the Vietnam veterans I've met...and I imagine that also goes for Korean and Iraqi vets.

My father pointed to two defining things in his life...the Depression and the War. The Depression made them tough and resourceful...the war defined them and allowed them to finally escape the depression and set the stage for the boom after the war.

I have nothing about a candidate using their service as a facet of who they are...but not as the sole reason for their career.

[Sadie4629]

31. A lot of my friends said their dads wouldn't talk

to them about the war. As a kid, I always THOUGHT my dad did. But looking back, the stories he told us were about getting "the best spaghetti dinner" of his life in Sicily, being able to speak to people in the Netherlands in their own language, about "funny" remarks made in the heat of battle, about being seasick on the Queen Mary. Those weren't war stories. The war stories were reserved, I think, for those who knew, and could comprehend, and empathize.

The really were the Greatest Generation. *sigh* I miss my dad.

[Philosoraptor]

21. The bush's have pissed away everything those guys fought for.

[ColbertWatcher]

20. Question regarding Pappy's "heroism"...

...didn't he abandon his crew mates when he jumped out of the plane? Since he was the pilot? And he didn't inform anyone else he was doing so?

Or am I remembering another coward?

[KharmaTrain]

25. Remember, Poppy Was "Connected"...

Daddy was a big player...no need to get into that story...

According to Wiki, he served with distinction...and I'd never heard of him getting any special treatment. Poppy at least fought in combat compared to his drunken idiot spawn who fought the battle of Cuevo Gold.

Gramps on the other hand...you know you won't hear about his failures at West Point and his reputation as being a wreckless pilot...something, IMHO, that probably led him to being shot down.

[ColbertWatcher]

27. "served with distinction" doesn't really answer the question though...

...and the best stuff are often removed from Wikip*dia based on the "talk page" discussions.

The GOP are good at bitching until embarrassing things are removed from certain pages.

Oh, and I found one link for a http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0310/19/cp.00.html">CNN transcript including a quote from a guy named Chester Mierzejewski:

ZAHN: While many on his mission believe he did the right thing, a veteran from Bush's squadron named Chester Mierzejewski challenged him in 1988 when Bush was running for president.

CHESTER MIERZEJEWSKI, WORLD WAR II VETERAN: He was the only one that bailed out of the plane, number one. That's one of the versions. And the other version is that -- the plane being on fire. I seen no fire at all on the plane. After he bailed out, the plane just went over, hit the water and sank, and (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

Chester Mierzejewski is no where to be found on Pappy's wiki page, nor does he have a wiki page of his own.

Odd.

[Thothmes]

9. I expect that the subject came up

when Eisenhower was running for President. Also might think it was mentioned when George Washington was running for President

[Philosoraptor]

10. & Kerry, yet the repubs sported purple band aids mocking his service

And they put out t.v. spots against Max Cleland comparing him to Osama bin Laden, and Max left 3 limbs in Vietnam.

[ColbertWatcher]

13. Eisenhower? Grant? n/t

[Benhurst]

16. William Henry Harrison

[ColbertWatcher]

17. Harrison was such an attention whore. n/t

[SteelPenguin]

30. This is the winner

It's not in the national consciousness because of ignorance, but he was elected primarily because of his military record. People might be more familiar with the political phrase (and song) "Tippecanoe and Tyler Too" which was spread for Harrison's election for his leadership at the battle of Tippecanoe.

Like McCain he was also old (the oldest President elected prior to Reagan), and died within a month of taking office.

[Blue Belle]

22. Teddy Roosevelt, Andrew Jackson, George Washington...

Their service in the military is kind of the reason they became President.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. Not Sure That's Right About TR

He was already an up & comer in gov't. I believe he was Sec. of Navy or something, when he resigned his post to go to Cuba and fight.

His rep at that time was a mover and shaker, but a little too radical for the other republicans. So, he was already becoming big heat, long before he was a "war hero".

And remember, he didn't become president running on his military record. He was VP when McKinley was shot, and when he ran on his own, was already prez for 3+ years.
The Professor

[Blue Belle]

43. You may be right...

but besides being president, most people associate TR with his stint as a "rough rider".

[B Calm]

24. Anybody who was locked up in a cage shouldn't be allowed

to run for president! You know the guy is a mental case.

[Sadie4629]

29. Oh, yeah. That should be part of the Dem campaign.

It's a sure winner.:eyes:

[B Calm]

39. Damn right it is! He should be made to show his mental health records!

Don't you think that good mental health is important to be a leader of this country? I'm sorry for McCain that he was captured in Vietnam and locked up in a cage for years, but you have to know this experience screwed him up! He has a history of mental health problems. He was even on the suicide watch list. He will not release his mental health record and that should give everyone pause. . . .

Old Vietnam Veteran B Calm

[Virginia Dare]

35. Commander AWOL McFlightsuit...

[B Calm]

40. Oh yeah, the brave man that gallantly protected us from an invasion from the Mexican Air Force!